Closing Arguments - Andy Dalton
by Christopher Gates on Apr 28, 2011 9:01 AM CDT
in 2011 NFL Draft
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PrintWell, now that Ted, Eric, and Kyle have given you their closing arguments, it's about high time I get around to doing the same thing, huh?
It's no secret that the Minnesota Vikings need a quarterback. . .many of us have become sick of the Vikings becoming a final resting place (of sorts) for the careers of various NFL quarterbacks, whether it's Brad Johnson or Brett Favre or (potentially) Donovan McNabb. It's high time that this team takes a signal caller of their own to develop for the long-term rather than continue trying to put a Band-Aid on a sucking chest wound the way they have for most of their existence.
The Minnesota Vikings have only selected two quarterbacks in the first round of the draft in franchise history. . .Tommy Kramer in 1977 and Daunte Culpepper in 1999. Both of those guys worked out just fine, to be blunt. So, it isn't that the Vikings are incapable of developing a quarterback on their own. . .they've just rarely taken the opportunity to do so, largely because they've had so few bad seasons that they've really never been in a position to take a "franchise" type of player before.
They're in that position this year and, barring something strange happening this evening, they will be in a position to take the guy that, in my opinion, will be their answer at quarterback well into the future.
Ladies and gentlemen. . .meet Andy Dalton.
Dalton is a name that has been moving up draft boards all off-season, and with good reason. He got better every single year for the Horned Frogs as a four-year starter, capping off a stellar college career this season by completing two-thirds of his passes, and putting up a touchdown-to-interception ratio of 27-to-6. He led Texas Christian to their second straight undefeated regular season, and then engineered a victory over a very good Wisconsin team in this year's Rose Bowl, winning game MVP honors in the process.
I understand that Dalton's physical measurements might now wow anybody. . .he isn't a freak of nature like Cam Newton or a big statue like Ryan Mallett or an insanely great athlete like Jake Locker. Dalton checks in at around 6'2" tall, about 220 pounds, and ran his 40-yard dash in about 4.8 seconds. But physical measureables are only a small part of the quarterback position. . .just ask guys like Dan McGwire and Ryan Leaf.
What makes Dalton a great quarterback at the college level. . .and, in my opinion, will make him a great quarterback at the professional level. . .are his leadership skills. The guy refuses to lose, and that was reflected in his tenure at Texas Christian. He has very good presence in the pocket, and while he doesn't possess blazing speed or anything like that, he knows how to get away from the rush and can make plays on the move when he needs to. He also possesses a great deal of football intelligence, from all accounts. . .so while he did play in a shotgun-heavy offense in college (much like many of this year's top prospects at the position), I don't believe his transition to the pro game would take all that long.
But I can't emphasize the fact enough that Andy Dalton, to put it simply, is a winner. As I mentioned, he was a four-year starter at Texas Christian, and has been a significant part of TCU's transition from "Awwwww, aren't they cute" to "Man, that team is really, really good." In the time that Dalton has been the Horned Frogs' starting quarterback, the team has had a record of 44-8. Five of those eight losses came in Dalton's freshman year, so over the last three seasons, the Horned Frogs have a record of 36-3. In the last two seasons, the only loss the Horned Frogs suffered was a 17-10 loss to Boise State in the 2009 Fiesta Bowl. Dalton also led TCU to a bowl game every year he was the starter. . .TCU won three of those four bowl games, and in each of those victories, Dalton was the game MVP.
The cry that Dalton's detractors often come out with is that his accomplishments were put together against "inferior competition." Honestly, I don't think that's a great argument. Yes, the Mountain West Conference isn't a "BCS" conference, and it isn't even considered a "glamor" conference by many standards. But if we're looking at the BCS, there's no way on earth you're going to convince me that the Mountain West isn't as good as some of the BCS conferences, notably the Big East and the ACC. If you matched the Mountain West up head-to-head with those two conferences, I think the MWC would acquit themselves quite well, to be honest.
The Minnesota Vikings, in my opinion, deserve a quarterback like Andy Dalton. The man is smart, he's clean, he's dedicated. . .and he's a winner. I would go so far as to say that the Vikings should grab him with the 12th overall pick, though if they could trade back and still get him, that would be even better. But a player with Dalton's skills, abilities, and intangibles shouldn't be considered a "reach" at number 12. . .I honestly feel that if the Vikings were to take Andy Dalton, we would finally be set at the quarterback position for the next decade and not be in the position to have to take a quarterback again in three years or so.
So, there's my argument for the Vikings' first-round draft choice.
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Agree completely
Dalton is the only QB that will be available at 12 that is worth a 12 pick. I love his leadership and calm in the pocket. It has been a long time since we have had that kind of QB. (with the exception of Favre).
If we trade down the pool opens up but at 12 Dalton is a solid choice.
"If you've got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow."
John Wayne
by just another viking on Apr 28, 2011 9:14 AM CDT reply actions
I sorta hope we draft him just for the Roadhouse references.
His name…is Dalton.
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 28, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Geesh about time
I been tootin on him for how long ? come on Vikes
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
You paid off Gosselin to pick Dalton at 312 didn't you Velvet!!
C’Mon I bet you paid Chris ,also.
You have been consistent in your praise. I am a little concerned that Dalton is to short and doesn’t have quite a strong enough arm. Is he Drew Brees? Can he get it done on the NFL level?
I am not against him. In fact I think he can run the WCO just fine. But I’m not convinced he’s better than Ponder or Locker and see their physical attributes as better for the Vikes.
But no one can argue that Dalton isn’t a winner. I swallowed my Hawkeye (Big Ten) pride when he kicked Wisconsin with a much less talented team.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah LL
Its a tough one…On one hand do you actually jump at #12 for him? I think again if the Vikes see him as a future with the idea you groom him 1 to 2 years while you build the dynamics around his skill set then I guess you commit. Do you wait it out and hope someone else doesnt have a clue about him. The upside of him is that even if you dont have a starting QB issue he makes for a great pick up as a back up that can again be well groomed. I dont think he will last past the 1st round there is just to much up to him over all as a person that brings a great attitude work ethic and really no social baggage.
Im so hoping for him we get him and if not…please dont let him go to a team that no QB can dig out of the depths, or he takes the wrap for it.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
Hell yea Chris it’s about time we get someone else on the Dalton b-wagon besides just me VT and Citrus +10 Chris I hope we get Dalton!!!
by cali viking on Apr 28, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
LOL
I tell yah if the Vikes grab him its gonna be so very sweet. Cali ,Citrus and I been rootin Dalton dam near mid season I Just hope if we dont take him he goes to a team that isnt on shit lane.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
I agree with alot of what you are saying
but there isn’t a chance that the Mountain West is better than the ACC. They might have had a few teams over the last few years which were better than any one team in the ACC but as a whole there is absolutely no way that the MW is better as a conference than the ACC.
MW:
Air Force, Brigham Young, Colorado, New Mexico, San Diego State, TCU, UNLV, Utah, Wyoming
vs.
ACC:
Boston College, Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Miami (FL), North Carolina, North Carolina State, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Wake Forest.
At the end of the 2010 season there were 4 ACC teams within the top 25, the MW had 1 or 2 depending on which poll you looked at.
I’ll give that TCU was probably better than anyone in the ACC last year but the ACC also has traditional powerhouses in FSU, Miami and arguably VaTech. I think that TCU would probably be about as much of a powerhouse as you could have in that conference.
Something to note, the ACC gets a really bad rap because there is a lot of parity in the conference, because the teams are about the same skill level as one another so they often just beat each other up throughout the year in the divison games, there isn’t often a clear cut better team. TCU beat each of there conference opponents extremely comfortably, with their only real challenge being a 5 point win over SDSU. FSU had to play 4 very close and crucial conference games.
If FSU hadn’t lost to both North Carolina and North Carolina State, then FSU would’ve been a 1 loss team, only loss being to Oklahoma and they would’ve been ranked within the top 10. As it was, they lost, ended up playing the runner up of the SEC conference, South Carolina, and comfortably beat them. I’d say that was a pretty significant feat given the fact that almost everyone believes the SEC is the best conference in football.
HUH?
If FSU hadn’t lost to both North Carolina and North Carolina State, then FSU would’ve been a 1 loss team
Well, wouldn’t every 3 loss team have been a one loss team if they hadn’t lost to two other teams? Just asking
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
lol
Yes. I was just trying to make the point that ACC conference games are very close. I guess I could’ve choosen a different way of saying that but I am still a bit bitter about those loses!!
Maybe if FSU had had a healthy QB, instead of an injury prone
noodle armed ponder they would have won. :)
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions
That's like saying
If the Gophers hadn’t lost to South Dakota, USC, Northern Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Purdue, Penn State, and Ohio State, they would have been a 1-loss team.
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 28, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
LMAO
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Let me remind you.
The Gophs lost to my home state of South Dakota. THE FREAKING JACK RABBITS!!!!.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 28, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
I like Dalton
But I think we could probably get him later in the first round. Getting him at 12 would be a stretch for me (as I explained in my post this week), but if we could get an extra pick AND land him around the 18-25 area? Hells yes.
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 28, 2011 10:02 AM CDT reply actions
What do you do Eric if he is the only guy left at #12?
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, with the list I made this week that's impossible
Since I mentioned about 22 guys; but if Dalton’s the only guy left that the Vikings really like when it’s their turn, I guess they should just go ahead and pull the trigger in order to avoid Dalton getting picked by someone else.
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 28, 2011 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions
AH, my question was pretty unclear. My apologies.
In the rick Gosselin draft ( posted under 5 QBs in the 1st 12 picks) 4 QBs went before the Vikings picked. Assume this is correct. Only Dalton remains as a QB prospect. Fairley, The Prince, Bowers, and Quinn are on the board.
What do you do then?
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Prince. Hands down.
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 28, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions
His short arm length seems to be
a little talked about factor that is bringing his stock down a little.
But he certainly would be a good CB to add to the secondary.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions
Also the fact that he's a STUD..
It would be huge for our team..and while I like dalton a lot..you can’t pass up on prince..esp. When he’s considered one of the safest/bust proof options..never know about dalton but I’d feel safer with that pick..and if those other people dropped that far, you have to think someone would choose them instead (because they’d probably be getting a steal that late)
by PURPpplEATER on Apr 28, 2011 11:04 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
like i've been saying..i've liked Dalton for a long time
I’d be happy with Stanzi as well but if we took Dalton I’d be thrilled..this is the first I’ve heard of using a 1st rd pick on him..I know if he’s our guy then we should go for it but 12 seems high..guess it depends who’s still left on the board then..do you feel he’d still be there at #43 chris?
by PURPpplEATER on Apr 28, 2011 10:11 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Purple, What do you do if he is the only guy left at #12 like Mr. Gosselin suggests?
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
i just have a feeling only 2 QB's will be off the board when we pick
Maybe I’m wrong but look at all the other elite talent positions..cam and gabbert are gone..and all the other QB’s come with question marks..(Well they do too) but of the qb hungry teams, if they don’t have either of those guys as options I’d say they look at another position..aj green, peterson, dareus, jones, fairley..too much talent to not take them ahead of a qb..esp. When many probably believe their guy would be there later..which poses the question..take him at 12 to be safe or try and trade back to get him..tough call
by PURPpplEATER on Apr 28, 2011 10:27 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So you don't want to answer the question
because your “feeling” is stronger than Rick Goselin’s inside sources?
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Or maybe trade down first a little bit?
Get a couple picks in the 1st or early 2nd..maybe still get him..I know it’s risky but hopefully spielman and crew know how far they can wait..gotta play it by ear as to how the other QB’s are jumping off the board
by PURPpplEATER on Apr 28, 2011 10:16 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Purple, my next response was to you. Sorry for the error.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I will repeat my question phrased more accurately.
In the rick Gosselin draft ( posted under 5 QBs in the 1st 12 picks) 4 QBs went before the Vikings picked. Assume this is correct. Only Dalton remains as a QB prospect. Fairley, The Prince, Bowers, and Quinn are on the board.
What do you do then?
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
That's a tough one..i'd have to ask you which QBs were selected ahead of us
Because I have a feeling stanzi was left out of that group..and you know my feelings toward that..but I’d probably say take fairley or prince..it’s a tough one..yes we do need a steady qb but I’m not that familiar with the teams behind us..who needs a qb after #12? It would help to know how long we could wait before having to worry(he could be gone anywhere though, crazier stuff has happened..I mean we have taken RBs time and time again while we already had a solid option (robert smith, AD, Gerhart) so even a team set at QB could take him..but the list of people available to us at 12 that you listed doesn’t really seem that believable..I mean awhile ago ppl had fairley mocked to go #1 overall..I don’t see him dropping this far..but an interesting question..glad we’ll finally know later today
by PURPpplEATER on Apr 28, 2011 10:43 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
If you go to my fanpost ( 5 QBs in the first 12 picks)
you can study his draft. HERE
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
*Intruder alert*
I love Dalton so much I would take him with the 8th pick without even flinching. If we do pass however, I sincerely hope the Vikes do too, because Dalton is apparently quite high on our board. Anyways, I just stopped because I’ve been trolling any post where I see Dalton’s name. Its nice to see him getting some recognition here, I really think he’s the best QB in this draft. And there’s a boatload of statistical evidence to back that up.
Enjoy the draft, good luck with your quest to find a franchise QB, I just really hope its not Dalton. He’d look better in two-toned blue, haha.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Apr 28, 2011 10:22 AM CDT reply actions
LOL
the guys here no me I and his agent need to talk some money if the vikes take him I been ramming him down these guys throates about mid season.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
There has been a lot of statistical analyses of the QBs this year, and
Dalton passes the LCF, LCF v2 (created by FO), the 26-27-60 rule and almost any other stat metric used. It doesn’t mean that he’ll be great, but it does mean he’s “very unlikely to be a massive bust” so in the right system where there is talent around him, he should be a very good QB. At best I think he’s Drew Brees, at worst Chad Pennington.
In Reinfeldt We Trust
by WinnipegTitanFan13 on Apr 28, 2011 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
A Comparison
QB 1=Andy Dalton
- Smart, so he can handle the transition out of the spread he ran in college
- Natural leader
- 44-8 record, with an undefeated final season
- A bowl each year he started, 3-1 in bowls
- Hard worker, not a great athlete
- 6’3", 220 lbs
- 4.8 40 yd dash
- Tore up the Mountain West
- Stats from last 2 seasons:
*62% / 2756 / 23 / 8
*66% / 2857 / 27 / 6
QB 2=Alex Smith (what we “knew” about him coming into the NFL)
- Smart (40 on wonderlic), so he can handle the transition out of the spread he ran in college
- Natural leader
- 21-2 record, with an undefeated final season
- A bowl each year he started, 2-0 in bowls
- Hard worker, not a great athlete
- 6’4", 217 lbs
- 4.76 40 yd dash
- Tore up the Mountain West
- Stats from last 2 seasons:
*65% / 2247 / 15 / 3
*67.5% / 2952 / 32 / 4
Not saying they’ll be the same, but all your points work for both of them. I’m not convinced.
by scavenger on Apr 28, 2011 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
The difference is
that Smith has had IIRC 4 different offensive coordinators and 2 head coaches who have not been shy about pulling him from games. With some stability in coaching Smith would probably have done better so far.
Dalton, assuming he goes to Minnesota, will at least have some stability. Frazier doesn’t strike me as a guy who will pull his QB before halftime when he’s playing poorly, which is what Singletary did more than once to his QBs at SF.
Also,
There aren’t many who would say Dalton is worth the number one overall pick. If Aaron Rodgers was taken first and Alex Smith got to sit behind Brett for three years, I think the pack would be rollin with him right now.
by Zach_Bodenner on Apr 28, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Another vote for Dalton
Watched a few of his interviews and not only is he a winner he appears to be a sincere good guy. Not like Mallet, who may or may not have some off the field issues, and not like Newton, who for all that he is an athletic freak of nature just comes across poorly at times.
Remember, in the NFL these days not only does your QB need to be good at the game, he is the face of your franchise.
I've stated for some time now ..
Un available because of the NFL’s greed . A flop of 1st’s with Philly for Kolb and the Dalton pickup late in the first would have been the ideal move . Can the Purple brain trust move up and down in the first to position for this pick ? No !!! They got raped last year in the Gerhart move . Then couldn’t even slide in later rounds as they lost on several targeted guys .
Will we get slammed again by moving up to #9 ?
#1 position on the team... #1 need for our team...
QB.
Take one in the first round!
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 28, 2011 11:09 AM CDT reply actions
Dalton at #12 = major reach IMO
So what if the QB’s are gone. Take Prince, Fairley, Jordan, etc.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
TCU QB Andy Dalton emerging as first-round target
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=nfp-20110428_tcu_qb_andy_dalton_emerging_as_firstround_target
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
I see that
your subliminal ------You've been Touched------ message has finally paid off! I like the pick and if Tennessee happens to grab him, I’m be OK with Stanzi also.
I really like Dalton
I think we could work out a trade with the Patriots, since I know they want a LB like Akeem Ayers or Martez Wilson. I put Dalton right behind Ponder in the tradeback scenario.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Lombardi says...
Nick Fairley DT
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 28, 2011 11:32 AM CDT reply actions
He might bust, but
if he shows any life he is a huge stud DT.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Did anyone watch him play this year? I don’t see how he could be a bust at all.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
He has a tendancy for laziness
No disrespect to him but the book is that he is sort of Albert Hainesworth like. They are afraid after he gets his money he will let his wait go and cruise until his next contract year.
That is the risk. Maybe yes and maybe no. But oh, how sweet if he doesn’t bust.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, that's" weight "not wait.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Well,
game footage can’t tell you a players personality/heart. Every draft pick is a risk, but in his case, I think it’s worth taking.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Game footage can't tell you
but his interviewing skills and his weight during the process can.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I've only ever seen him respectfull and polite in interviews.
As for Cam, thats a different story.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I hate to even ask
but what exactly did you hear Cam say that was disrespectful?
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Not nessisarily disrespectful,
but he acts very arrogant, and called himself a showman and a performer.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Well we certainly should base a
QB evaluation on what he said while he was celebrating a new endorsement deal.
That statement was taken out of context and does not reflect at all what he and teams have been talking about. It totally made sense to me that he wants to be an icon and entertainer in his role as product spokesman. Kinda like Michael Jordan was for Nike shoes.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Personally
I don’t judge a player’s work ethic very strongly off of college tape. Why? Because they’re playing for something- a high draft pick and a big fat paycheck. Most top tier players in college get that a good portion of their college careers are, in fact, basically 2-4 year long NFL tryouts, so to speak. Which is not a bad thing at all, but, with that mentality, you will work hard when it’s not exactly who you truly are as a person. Look at Albert Haynesworth, to use LLV’s metaphore- in his last year with the Titans, a year he was hoping to impress and get a huge contract (which he did), he was a motorized beast. Then… he got said huge contract and paycheck. And the motor died rather quickly.
JaMarcus Russel is another example, as is Matt Leinart. Both impressed enough to get drafted high and big fat paychecks… and then became rather lazy and unfocused. Their goal was achieved. Winning a championship wasn’t their goal- getting tons of money was. (I will admit that Russel is a bit of a bad metaphore, because if the Raiders hadn’t owned the #1 pick… he would not have gone #1 overall. Several teams knew he was going to be a potential issue.)
Ergo, why I tend to ignore college tape, combines, et al when it comes to questions of work ethic. It’s easy to work your butt off when you know scouts are watching you, or at least will be watching tape of you. The question all comes around to, will you keep it up once all of that is done?
Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
www.dailynorseman.com- THE place for true Viking fanatics.
also giving Mallett a shout out for the Vikes at 12...
as a possibility
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 28, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
This conversation again??
I don’t think any QB in this draft, save Newton and Gabbert, is worth the 12 pick.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
Time for someone to play devil's advocate
I like Dalton, and I’d be happy if the Vikings draft him, BUT…
The one thing that nags at me about nearly all these QB’s is how their predicted draft positioning has changed since they played their last game.
When Auburn won the national championship, most people were calling Cam Newton a project whose athletic skills made him worthy of a late 1st round pick. Since then, he’s had a bad interview with Gruden, couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn at the Combine, and got people all worked up over his “icon and entertainer” comments. Now he’s considered the likely #1 pick in the whole draft. Really?!?
Locker, Mallett and Ponder were being projected as 2nd to 3rd round prospects at season’s end.
Dalton and Kapernick were projected to go in the 3rd or 4th round by most NFL analysts. Now Dalton is being talked about in the top 15 picks, with Kaepernick in the 2nd.
Stanzi? Early projections at the conclusion of the college season had him pegged around the 5th round of the draft. Now he’s baing projected no later than the 3rd.
So what’s up? Do the results of the Combine, their interviews with respected analysts and their medical checkups really outweigh initial impressions upon completion of their last college game?
Or… all all of these guys being artificially pushed up the boards because of a combination of factors that include the absence of a CBA (missed free agency period, no veteran player trades), and what is widely being called a weak class in many positions (save defensive line where there are several high round prospects)?
Yes, to everything you said.
Except for Mallet they have all done better than anyone expected. Lack of FAs has driven them up the board. Cam has blown teams away with his ability to lead a team. Gabbert has shown a great arm. Locker has eased concerns over his college stats. Ponder, Dalton, Kapernick have shown more skills than were expected.
All of the above. Oh, and 10 teams need a QB really, really bad.
IT IS TIME TO DO WHAT IT TAKES TO DRAFT A FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK.
No more old guys. No more excuses. No more passing up our own great drafted quarterback.
by lifelongvike on Apr 28, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
To be fair
Locker, Mallett and Ponder were being projected as 2nd to 3rd round prospects at season’s end.
Ponder was only down because of his surgeries, which he has checked out fine from. Locker was never projected in the 3rd round. He was originally a 1st round projection, then slid, and has since climbed back into the first round.
But like lifelongvike said, the demand for QB’s is at an all time high and there is very little separating these players. As a result, each one is climbing different boards and it’s gonna make for an interesting evening tonight.
Dalton may not be there @ #12.
Our friends at Music City Miracles (MCM), the SB Nation site for the Titans, report that if they go offense @ #8, it will be Dalton. I linked the article in a comment elsewhere but here it is again.
Since this article appeared on Tuesday, there has been more articles and a lot of speculation at MCM about Dalton. Their fan base seems to like the idea. So, as much I like Dalton, the option may be moot by the time we pick. Let’s hope not.
Your fantasy football expert since Jerry Rice's rookie year.
and..
Interviews are done and work out invites take place wich complies more info thus kinda like a job seeking the more they know about you over the course of screening so forth..the intrest rises or falls. Dalton long as I had once [posted the info was always considered under looked and thatw as coming from old time footbalers that had said he’s the real deal and way under rated.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
I get all that
But I still come back to the idea that combine performances and clumsy interviews are perhaps overrated in comparison to what really matters - what does a guy do when he’s playing in an actual game?
There’s a lot of talk about this year’s QB class, with a possible 8 QB’s going in the top 3 rounds. I just wonder how many of them will be top 10 players 5 years from now.
Fun game.
Newton..no
Gabbert..possibly if he has good talent around
Dalton…doubt it
Ponder…same as Gabbert minus arm strength
Mallet…IMHO best shot at stardom IF (repeat IF) he’s clean of drugs and the character stuff is just a bunch of hot air.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 28, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL
Jepp do you even have a clue everyone in footabll has said regardless of starting or not Dalton has a long future just sitting as a back up. geesh man
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
And 'everyone'
Had Ryan Leaf and Payton Manning as pretty much a tossup. Just sayin.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 28, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's some arm strength and pin point accuracy for ya'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwtFkDMbl2w
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-Jar435rnc
All I can say is “BOOM”.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
TBH
I actually want Ponder or Mallet.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 28, 2011 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
TBH? I’m a little slow on the comp lingo
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry..
To Be Honest.
I don’t usually use truncations/abbreviations but for some reason it felt prudent.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 28, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Finally found this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGrZlm33Ff8
Christian Ponder’s movement with the ball is flawless. He keeps his soulders flat while scrambling within the pocket, and can make all of the throws.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions
wow
Sick videos dude. Nice to have another nole on the site!!
by FSUViking on Apr 28, 2011 1:03 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
the second one of the first two
I’ve posted on here and mtd a few times, great examples of his arm
by FSUViking on Apr 28, 2011 1:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Don't see why people knock his arm strength
On the second one, he throws it from exactly the 50, and is caught in the mid of the end zone. Thats 55 yards. On the run. Feet not firmly planted.
Once again, “Boom”.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 28, 2011 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Dont know much but
I haven’t seen alot of these college QBs play, but i have seen Dalton and I’ve been on his band wagon for a long time now. I couldn’t care less about “athletic” ability. Plenty of doughy or scrawny QBs in the NFL now doing well. Brees, Manning, Brady, or Ryan, none of which could be called a physical specimen.
What I’ve seen of Dalton he showed just was is mentioned in the article, poise, football intelligence, and pocket awareness, all hugely important, especially for the WCO.
Not sure if I’d take him with the 12th overall, though he’s worth it, but I’d sure hate to miss out on him in the 2nd.
Trading Down
Dalton sounds like a nice fit for the Vikes but if you are able to trade down 10 or more picks and still get him, I would think that would be the way to go.
However it goes, I hope you will be happy with your 2011 draft choices.
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by Cold_Old_Steelers_Fan on Apr 28, 2011 1:45 PM CDT reply actions
Seems like a stretch to me
This argument essentially boils down to “his team won a lot of games”, which is the stupidest reason to draft a QB that there is. Winning % is pointed to far too often as a sign of success in the NFL. It really only matters as a negative if the guy in question was a constant loser. Guys like Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Alex Smith and Tim Tebow are great examples of “winning” QB’s that didn’t carry that over (because as important as a great QB is, they still have very limited control on the final outcome of a game). Jay Cutler was a losing QB in college and that has more or less bared itself out in the pros.
Now Dalton is a good QB. I like him and I hope he is successful. If the Vikings took him, I’d be on board (I feel like they’ve been thorough with their QB search and will get the guy they believe in). But I don’t feel like this argument is a good enough reason to draft him by itself.
Slander... slander and lies... meh...
I’m so burned out at this point I can’t even really bring my natural sarcasm and jackassery here. II8Y?
The record for QBs taken in the first round could be broken tonight. With admitedly little research into it all, aside from all I’ve done already (seriously, we have about 4 hours to go, I’m not doing one more second of reading into this), and with the assumption (for no reason other than to illustrate) that the Vikes are not involved, I easily see 7 QBs going in the first round. Observe:
- Carolina Panthers: Cam Newton. (It just seems obvious at this point.)
- Buffalo Bills: Blaine Gabbert. (See above.)
- Cincinnati Bengals: Jake Locker. (…see above. Assumption that Brown isn’t a moron. That’s a BIG assumption.)
- Tennessee Titans: Andy Dalton. (They need a QB, he’s not terrible as this post has shown.)
- Washington Redskins: Ryan Mallett. (If anyone’s taking Mallett top 10, it’s the ’skins.)
- Miami Dolphins: Colin Kapaernick. (I think he would be pretty decent at running the WC.)
- Seattle Seahawks: Christian Ponder. (Seahawks are a WCO team. Ponder is a WCO QB. Need I say more?)
So… as much as I stumped for Anthony Castonzo, and will continue to do so, LLV’s got a very decent point that waiting for the second round to roll along, particularly at #43, there’s going to be pretty much no worthwhile QBs left. I am fine with that- I don’t see any of these QBs working out in the way we all hope and need a QB to work out for the Vikings. Even my guy Ponder will do better for the Seahawks- they’re a pure WCO team (we’re going to be running a hybrid), AND he could potentially sit for a year or two and learn/ develop behind Matt Hasselbeck- something we can’t offer (unless of course… we also get Matt Hasselbeck. I’m not going there.)
At this point I see this being very realistic. Of course, draft days have a way of really surprising you- I submit to the jury the evidence of the Bronco’s huge jump for Timmy Tebow last draft.
Ah, the failed attempt at returning Moss home. It was like '98 and '09 were about to make sweet, sweet love and give us a glorious '10 child.
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