Where We Look At The Selection Of Christian Ponder. . .Again
From looking around these vast interwebs this morning/early afternoon, many "experts" seem to have the Minnesota Vikings' selection of Christian Ponder classified as a "surprise" or a "reach" or some other similar term.
To such judgments, I say "nonsense." Why don't you let the guy get onto the field first?
Seriously, I can't stand the "experts" attempting to "grade" a draft pick less than 24 hours after it has taken place. Is it possible that Christian Ponder will be a flop in the National Football League? Of course it's possible. It's possible that "can't miss" prospects like Patrick Peterson, Marcell Dareus, and Von Miller will be flops in the National Football League, too. . .but you won't hear anybody say that.
You know what all these same people that are deriding the Vikings' pick now would be saying had the Vikings passed on Ponder at #12? They'd be saying, "Hey, why didn't the Vikings take a quarterback at #12?" Haters simply have to hate, I guess.
Don't get me wrong. . .I made my preference for a quarterback known yesterday when I talked about Andy Dalton. But, really, I don't see a damn thing wrong with the selection of Christian Ponder at this point in time. The guy played in a pro-style system at Florida State, he's obviously highly intelligent, so the volume of an NFL playbook won't be too much for him. This analysis of him from the South Florida Sun-Sentinel pretty well sums him up (well, it's a long summary, but I'm just going to go to the last couple of paragraphs). They're looking at him from a Dolphins writer/fans perspective, as they were scouting him for the Dolphins' #15 pick. . .hence the Dolphins references.
Is he a good fit for the Dolphins, and is he worth the 15th pick in the draft? The answer to both questions in my mind is yes. Personally, I could see this regime viewing Ponder as being somewhere between Chad Henne and Chad Pennington. Ponder displays good anticipation and touch for the most part, is a respected leader and has an underrated arm, capable of squeezing the ball into tight spaces. The former Seminole is athletic, proving to be a legitimate threat to gain yardage with his legs, which if we are to believe reports of Sparano’s "Big Play" fact finding mission is a prime ingredient in such plays.
He’s a player that will tick many of the boxes Jeff Ireland and company reportedly look for in quarterbacks. Ponder is a hardworking, intelligent player (he received his Bachelor’s Degree after 2.5 years) who has won 24 games during his tenure and shown improvement every year of his tenure in Tallahassee.
The Miami Dolphins have to improve at several positions, quarterback being one of them. If the selection were left up to me, Ponder’s name would already be rolling off of Roger Goodell’s tongue. I doubt Miami could trade down into the mid-twenties of the first round and still expect to see him on the board. There are simply too many teams looking for quarterbacks this offseason, especially those who do not carry some of the question marks attached to other highly rated prospects at the position.
All of three of us are in agreement that he’s a very solid prospect, with good upside, great character and the ability to start quickly for an NFL franchise. Whether that franchise is the Miami Dolphins remains to be seen.
To take a quote that I've used on more than one occasion from American nuclear energy mogul C. Montgomery Burns. . .I know what I hate.
And I don't hate this.
But before we start declaring him to be a reach. . .how about we let him, you know, play a game or two first, huh?
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sorry dude
stop drinking the purple kool aide. Dude was a reach smart GM’s don’t panic and get the best players available
I'm drinking Kool-Aid
Because I’m crazy enough to want to see the guy actually play as an NFL quarterback before I declare him to be awful?
Well, if that’s the case. . .pass the pitcher this way.
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by Christopher Gates on Apr 29, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Most people who say he's a reach
only say that because that’s what Mel Kiper wrote on his website.
With you there
Plus, I do not think you can “reach” for a QB. If you identify a QB that you think can lead you, there is no such thing as a reach by taking a player at the most important position in football in the first round.
Now, there is absolutly the possibility of missing or blowing the pick, but reaching for a QB in round one just sounds silly.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
by darren004 on Apr 29, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, you gotta take a shot
Look at Carolina. They took Clausen last year, yet here they are again taking Cam Newton. You take a shot at a QB when you have the chance. In past years the Vikings haven’t been in a position to take a chance on a top QB that they felt was work the risk, this year they found a guy they felt was worth it.
Clausen was taken in the 2nd round...
I dont see that being a good comparrison..
At the same time….god i feel sorry for that kid right now…
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
2nd picks usually start their 1st year
As do 1st round picks. What’s the difference? They took a shot on both.
Mel Kiper also
said JaMarcus Russell was a can’t miss pick and would be a super star the NFL within 4-5 years…..LOL. What is really aggravating is these so-called experts have a TV outlet to make their outlandish claims about these players. A crying shame. They should be sued if one of these guys drops in the draft, thus losing millions, because of bone-headed comments. like his.
Emotions and believing pack opinions
create a strange form of group insanity.
You are right, relax and give the guy a chance. Only time will tell.
Hoping the Vikes prove everyone (of the pre-judgers) wrong hit a home run on this pick.
The expert opinions usually mean nothing in the future.
Surprise; Reach
You would’ve thought it said Total Bust!
To deny that Ponder was a reach at 12 is asinine and barely worth addressing.
The entire concept of a reach is asinine
He’s only a reach if the team had him rated low on their board and took the guy anyway. They didn’t.
You can call it a poor evaluation if you want, but the Vikings didn’t reach with this pick. They legitimately believed he was worthy of a top 15 pick. Only time will tell if theirs or Mel Kiper’s evaluation of the kid was accurate. If Kiper is wrong, no one will remember it in 12 months. My money is on the guys who are actually risking their jobs with their evaluation.
Bullshit
A reach is a reach no matter what their ridiculous board looked like. They did not believe before this draft started that they would be using their 12th pick on Christian Friggin’ Ponder. No way — that’s why they were looking for a trading partner. They figured Locker would drop to them. Then they thought they might luck into Gabbert. Bottom line is they got painted into a corner when their guy got picked and they could not find a trading partner.
They settled, and it may turn out that they were perfectly justified in doing so. I just happen to think that it would have been smarter to pick Prince or Fairley and settle for the best QB to fall to #43.
"Believe me Delmar, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."
Good thing we didn't
Stanzi or Mallett was all that was left at 43. Mallett fell into the 3rd (looks like he was completely off of many boards) and Stanzi dropped out of the 3rd completely. Those guys you want to build your franchise around?
Perhaps
But you are missing the part where the Vikes would not have picked Ponder in this scenario. So, it seems to me that Ponder, Dalton, or Kaepernick might have been available at 43.
"Believe me Delmar, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."
If a guy is #1 on your board and you can draft him 32nd, but you choose him earlier than that, its reaching.
You tell me why!
Da’Quan Bowers may have fallen further than any top rated professional football player ever has.
I don’t even know if you’re serious. I would expound, but it probably would be a waste of time.
its KOOL-AID
only a ‘reach’ in the minds of those who believe the Vikings should have taken another player.
The Front Office wanted him (or Locker), didn’t believe they could get him lower, due to the way the draft was playing out and simply picked him when he was there.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 29, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Im not sure which is worse...
The continued use of the Koolaid ref, seriously we have an election next year im going to have to hear it then LET IT GO….
Or the +7 OH LOOK ITS HIS NUMBER i see what you did..omg QQ…
Seriously….
Find a new insult past the Koolaid number, and please quit with the +7 its really silly. But since you liek Ponder, gratz on the pic, guess who we get to roast if it goes bad lol.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
-7
you got to lay off the bitter man… it’s not appealing.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 29, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Its not bitter
I think its a stupid response that ive seen over and over instead of a real one.
And the Kool aid thing is old news, sorry im not a bitter WOMAN, i just dont like people who’s whole post revolves around an insult like quit drinking the koolaid…
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
so all women are bitter?
you’re digging a bitter hole LeeLee…
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 29, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions
You've been like this about Ponder in almost every post
And then quickly say it isn’t him but the pick. The pick is a QB, most important position in football, sports and currently the most gaping, blackhole need in our organization. The pick had to be made because they couldn’t trade down, end of story.
by FSUViking on Apr 29, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I dont like the pic, im not alone.
end of story, you see it as bitter, i see it as having the opinion that its a bad pick.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
no wait
next year qb class is way better than this one. we should have waited and got either luck or Barkley
Landry Jones!
Had to throw his name in there!
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
yup kids a beast :)
we should take Carmen Messina with one of our lower picks
NO BARKLEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who said life was fair?
When I find that person I'll beat the hell out of him
I hear this line every year.
And then when the ‘year’ comes, the scouts pick them apart. That’s “Grass is greener on the other side” talk. Last year THIS was the QB crop, now it’s next year. But when we see those, we’ll go, “Hmm, maybe not.”
You can’t bet on what’s “going to happen.” You have to draft based on current needs. Professional sports is a ‘win now’ operation. You pass on the chance this year, and you very well won’t have the chance next year.
by Shawn Gillogly on Apr 29, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
You're ripping the player they picked.
Not the pick. They picked a QB.
QB was the single biggest hole on our team. You don’t like that they fixed that hole?
I am not ripping Ponder
But ive said that multiple times so im kinda of getting sick of saying that.
You guys can have the last word, im fine with that.
But it doesnt make you correct.
Have at it.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
I like the player but he was a reach.
BPA. How many times have people touted Spielman’s past draft success because he went with the BPA over need? I’m not saying Ponder won’t turn out to be a good QB because it’s too early to tell but taking him at #12 when most experts have him rated as a low first round to early second round talent is the definition of reaching for a need. I’ll cheer Ponder because he’s our quarterback but calling the pick a reach is reasonable given the talent that was on the board. I consider calling the pick a reach a question of Spielman’s ability to work the draft board rather than an insult to Ponder. Like the player but I question the pick.
Other positions sure for BPA. QB is a bit different to guage.
You simply cannot not have a QB and win in the NFL. It may turn out poorly, but you cannot just say you have to take the BPA with no quarterback to speak of on your roster.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
by darren004 on Apr 29, 2011 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Time will tell if we picked up an actual QB or a bust, but hopefully the Front Office's trust in him is not misplaced.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
I hope he turns out to be a good QB.
Again, I’m not saying I hate the player or anything like that. I just think that it’s very fair to call Ponder at #12 a reach as it was a need pick rather than a BPA pick. Maybe QB is the exception to the rule but generally reaching for need leads to more bad picks than good ones, and the QB position is no different from any other in that respect. Again, I like Ponder but I don’t like where we got him.
by CanadianViking on Apr 29, 2011 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
So who, in your mind, was the BPA last night with the #12 pick
Fairley? Couldn’t that be described as a “need pick” as well?
Prince? DB Definately fits the description of a need pick.
Pouncy? I know I’ve stated many times that we NEED to upgrade our interior Oline.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
QB is the most mythical position in sports
They need guys all around them to be successful. Manning looked average this year with out his weapons. and he is one of the games best the only way we win with ponder is that we have all pros at almost every spot
Maybe so.....
but in today’s NFL, nearly ALL successful playoff teams must have a franchise QB. The many rule changes that have benefited the offenses have made this so.
hahaha
yeah… ‘mythical’
Look… The QB is the only player who touches the ball on 99.999% of offensive plays, he is the ‘leader’ of all the other players (despite what TO may think) and as the leader, he carries all the others on his shoulders.
THAT may make the position ‘mythical’, but not in the sense you are using the word.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 29, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
You can't logically ask for a lot more than
AP, Sid, Shank, and Percy as a rookie QB to work with.
I assume Sid is back based on the conclusion that the NFL is likely to use 2010 rules in absence of a CBA, making him a RFA.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 29, 2011 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Now we're talking semantics : )
Prince, Fairley, and Quinn all fit the BPA profile and fill needs. What I mean by a need pick is that you pick somebody that’s almost universally rated much lower to fill a need. I don’t mind that we got Ponder but I just wish we could have got him, Mallett, or Dalton much later in the first or early in the second. I don’t hate the player but I think we didn’t get full value for the #12 pick. Hopefully Ponder will be great and justify where the Vikings picked him.
by CanadianViking on Apr 29, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, they tried to trade down
No takers. They didn’t LIKE any of those 3 players. So regardless of what Kiper’s board said, the Vikes have no reason to pick a guy they don’t think fits what they do.
So what do you do? Draft a guy you don’t believe in, or draft the guy you do?
by Shawn Gillogly on Apr 29, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Do we really know
how much they did or didn’t like Mallett, Dalton, or Kaepernick? We really only know that they like Ponder better than those three. But we don’t know how much better, do we?
That’s the calculus that I don’t get. For me to use the #12 pick on Ponder, I would have to like him way better than those guys. See, look at what you are doing — you are now assuming that they flat out “didn’t like any of those 3 players” in order to feel better about the pick. I find this hard to believe. I am a Dalton man, myself — but I wouldn’t have even taken him at #12 because I don’t think he’s that much better than Mallett, Ponder, or Kaepernick.
"Believe me Delmar, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."
Based on today
I’d say Mallett probably wasn’t even on their board. When the Dolphins, Redskins, Seahawks, Cardinals and Bills pass on you 2-4 times each, there’s a big red flag on you as a quarterback.
Dalton and Kaepernick would have been tricky to land in the 2nd round. Probably would have cost us our 4th or next year’s 3rd to move up. Even then, might not have worked. Hindsight makes that pick look a lot better in my opinion.
you are now assuming that they flat out "didn’t like any of those 3 players" in order to feel better about the pick. I find this hard to believe.
Fair enough. We don’t know how they felt about the other guys for sure, but we do know that they liked Ponder better than all of them. I’d rather have a choice than take who’s left over when talking about a guy you’re trying to build a franchise around.
I'm not thrilled.......
…..when the “franchise QB” & the 12th pick of the draft is compared to Chad Pennington. I’m sorry, Chad by all accounts is a great guy and all but……..We passed on so many other impact players available at 12………..He’s a Viking though so he has my support….
by Marooned Pirate on Apr 29, 2011 1:27 PM CDT reply actions
It's in the context of the comparison
Comparing a player to his play style or type of skill set is what I feel the comparison actually is about.
I doubt they mean to say that he’s no better than a Chad Pennington was. Names I also heard in comparisons were Drew Brees, Joe Montana, and Matt Hasselbeck.
Mel Kiper makes people dumber, it’s best to block out his voice.
Mind you
this was written from a Miami Dolphin viewpoint so the author was only trying to put it into context specific to his readers.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 29, 2011 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Would you prefer Matt Hasselback?
I’ve heard that one too, it’s probably more apt as well.
by PackApologist on Apr 29, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
We'll see
Since he’s the new quarterback of the future of the Minnesota Vikings, by default, I’m now a huge Christian Ponder fan. That said, there are quite a few ways I would have gone with the #12 pick before going with Ponder. But hey, I’m not a GM either.
Chris is right—let’s not skewer him until he plays a few games. If he sucks? Then skewer away. But until then, let’s not all assume the sky is falling.
Now all we have to do is wait and speculate for about five (or more) months. Yipee!
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 29, 2011 1:32 PM CDT reply actions
NNNOOOO
Not only did you mention how lllloooonnnngggg we have to wait, but you also managed to sneak in the labor dispute. You sly dog…..
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 1:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Just a ray of sunshine for your Friday :)
Proud contributor to Daily Norseman and SB Nation Minnesota
by Eric J. Thompson on Apr 29, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I live in Florida
I don’t need any of your so called “sunshine”. : )
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 1:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would say longer than that
Sometimes it can take a year or two for a QB to develop. Peyton Manning had a ridiculous amount of Interceptions his first year. If they had just cut him after year 1 then where would the Colts be?
Give him 3 years, then it’s fair to judge.
sometimes...
your shiny new QB can take you to back-to-back Conference Championship games during his first 2 seasons…
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 29, 2011 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions
That is true
It depends on the player.
I think Ponder will be quick out of the gate because:
1. Bill Musgrave
2. High Wonderlic score
3. Ran pro-style offense for 3 years in college
4. Has the weapons on offense.
I agree for the most part with you, if only.....
because it was the same perspective that I have stuck to regarding Joe Webb. I would have preferred Fairley instead, and, with the Lions scooping him up, I am extremely concerned for the well being of ANY QB we put under center in the years to come. Bolstering our O line has to be in the top two in terms of priorites right now.
Don't lose sleep over it
Fairly is just as likely to bust as he is to boom. DT’s are as risky of a pick as QB’s. Fairly had one good season on a stacked Auburn Defense. He was lazy, played when he felt like it. Suh should be a good influence on him, but many DT’s have testified that long term success lies within the work ethic at that position, and it’s not clear that Fairly has it. You can use the fact that he fell to 13 overall as evidence of that.
Sleeping not a problem......
but Fairly, Suh, and Vandenbosch ALL getting single blocking could send our current crop of OL to counseling.
I have heard that.......
not a football XOer either, but, I am just doing the numbers. The Vikings have so many holes to fill, so I am not critical of the pick. We do need to bolster our interior O line ASAP, though. We used to be able to pencil the Lions in as 2 nearly automatic Ws every season, which went a long way to putting us near the top of the division. That is not the case anymore.
It's possible
….but so is Fairly showing up to camp overweight and is late to practices. Does he get disciplined by the coaching staff or does the lack of work effort show on tape?
Hey it sounds like ur Describing
Big Albert Haynesworth now. lol
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Apr 29, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
My biased pick was Mallet
i wanted us to get a qb though so I was stunned at first, you can read my comments at the time but I’m just glad it’s not Locker.
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Apr 29, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Ill give you that lol
I worry what today would of been had it been Locker LOL
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
Hell on earth. They would've probably shut down this site.
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on Apr 29, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
We need Rodney Hudson.
In 32 games as a starter, he gave up 1.5 sacks and only got flagged ONCE.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 1:51 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I will never skewer Ponder.
It’s not like he picked himself at #12! This pick, by definition, is a reach. Saying this pick is a reach is not saying anything bad about Ponder. It might not even be saying anything bad about the Vikes staff unless you think calling them morons is bad. By picking Ponder at #12, they just established a pretty large gulf between Ponder and Dalton/Mallett/Kaepernick. I don’t see it. I think the Vikes would be in about the same situation of wishing and hoping they hit the QB jackpot with any of those players. Surely, they would have gotten one of those QBs with pick #43, and they would have Prince or Fairley as well.
"Believe me Delmar, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."
Million dollar question.
And No i dont think anyone is personaly attacking Ponder himself.
God help him if he fails lol.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
We definately would have gotten a QB at 43
But it would have been Stanzi/Capernick. I would rather have Ponder and Bowers/good OL-Man than Prince/Fairley and Stanzi/Capernick
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 2:06 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Will Bowers be there ar 43?
Wasnt he suppose to go in the 1st but slipped due to injury reports?
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
he could but no clue...
You sound like what i was being accused of before ROFL.
Its all a big guessing game i know.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
It's possible.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 2:10 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree Ponder was a reach at 12,
but being a reach and being a bad pick are two different things. And there is a gulf between Ponder and Mallet and Dalton and Kaepernick in that all four guys have very different skill sets that will work with different schemes. I don’t think the gulf in talent is huge, but I’d argue that doesn’t matter as much when you are selecting a QB.
You can’t just say that because the 4 have similar talent that they will perform similarly under any given offensive scheme.
That's gulf is only a facade.
Ponder is only a reach with the 12th pick when you make the entire draft process generic. Fact of the matter is that for the Vikings they simply felt they needed to come out of the draft with a QB that could be a franchise guy. Drafting a QB is always a risk, no matter where he is ranked or what round you pick him up in. It’s a position that has a long history of top pick flame outs and late round surprises.
The Vikings decided they had to pick a QB. Everyone agrees that the Vikings need to pick a QB. The question then is who and when. It’s obvious that the Vikings analysis had Ponder in their top 3 or 4 guys. Well, those other 3 or 4 where gone. It seemed the team tried to move down but had no takers in a range they felt comfortable with. It seems certain that Ponder would have been gone the later middle of the first round. What would have happened if the Vikes traded down, picked up a 3rd rounder, and missed on Ponder by a pick or two? They still needed a QB, and they would have had to pick a QB with either that 1st rounder or in the 2nd round, and those QBs were getting lower on the Vikes wish list.
They got their guy. What real difference does it make if they got him at 12 or at 18? None. Does it matter that other QBs like Dalton or Mallet go many picks later? Not at all. The Vikes got the guy they wanted to hopefully lead the team in the future. If Ponder was the guy the wanted, then they needed to draft the kid.
The question becomes, do they have the coaches and the system, and the patience, to truly develop Ponder into a + quality starter in the NFL? We have no idea.
by Krotz the Wall on Apr 29, 2011 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Ponder great pick?
Maybe, and I will be cheering as hard for him as anyone, but for the majority of those saying what a great pick it was. Where was that conviction to taking Ponder at 12 prior to the draft. I don’t recall him receiving that many votes for which QB we wanted in the last poll. Ponder is extremely intelligent, a great leader, and accurate. The frustration from most fans comes from where he was taken.
by NorthPoleNorseman on Apr 29, 2011 2:11 PM CDT reply actions
Its not frustration
Its now called being bitter..
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
no...
your bitterness title comes not from your ‘frustration’ with the pick.
you believe the Vikings should have picked someone else at #12, that Ponder would have been available later (or that a reasonable substitute would be available).
I believe the coaches and Front Office for the VIKINGS are the better judge of talent and need.
They made their decision based on what they knew. Which I am guessing is MUCH MORE than either you or I can ever come close to at draft time.
‘bitter’ is a negative emotion, felt as a result of a real or imagined wrong done. And that fits your posts.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 29, 2011 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions
but then you have to believe he would be there at 43, or that you have the trading power OR a partner to trade down with… QB was the spot we needed to fill, in a draft where we were finally sitting in position to take one of the better players at the position…AND the guy your FO/Staff believe to be the best fit.
They made the pick. ‘GREAT’, ‘GOOD’, or ‘HORRIBLE’ are for the historians.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Apr 29, 2011 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Miami was ready to scoop him up at 15
and the Vikings had him higher on their boards than Dalton, Mallet and Kaepernick. It is that simple.
Plus........
the Moss trade continues to haunt the Vikings. IF they had the third round pick, they very well could have done what the Jags did and picked up Gabbert. What’s done is done.
Or they could have felt comfortable in their ability
to package their 2nd and 3rd rounder and move back into the 1st to grab Ponder after taking Prince/Fairley at 12.
Not having that 3rd is very limiting.
based on what happened last night
It would have cost this years second, 4th and next years 1st to move back into round 1 last night.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
It would have cost this years second, 4th and next years 1st to move back into round 1 the top 10 last night.
And a first born
Im still shocked the Falcons gave up so much to move.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
It was OUR poll, the site said we didn't want him
Frasier/Musgrave/Spielman said they did. Vikings FO>DN.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 2:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess it is the volatility of mock drafts and conventional wisdom.
A few months ago, Bowers and Fairly were 1-2 in many a mock draft. Now one went 13 and one is still there.
Before last year, could anyone but college football junkies even tell you who Blaine Gabbert was? Chase Daniel’s backup, thats who. Now, he is a top 10 pick.
Just because he was not in a lot of mock drafts, does not mean that he was a reach. Nor does it mean he is going to pan out.
I am certainly rooting for him, and only time will tell.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
we know the TOA liked him
They drafted him at 12. But not pre-draft on this forum.
by NorthPoleNorseman on Apr 29, 2011 2:31 PM CDT reply actions
I will say this:
If the Vikings end up getting Bowers at #43 they will have pulled a rabbit out of their hats and all should be forgiven. They will have lucked into it after being somewhat reckless with the #12 pick, but it would make everything right again.
"Believe me Delmar, woman is the most fiendish instrument of torture ever devised to bedevil the days of man."
It certainly wont hurt
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
You don't draft a QB
whose ceiling is being a game manger with the 12th pick in the draft.
And everyone is so sure that is his ceiling?
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
*Unless of course he manages the game to a T
No we’re not sure, but that is a lot of people’s first impression.
How exactly do you know that
Who said life was fair?
When I find that person I'll beat the hell out of him
If Ponder would have been drafted by any other team in the league
at this spot, you’d be saying the exact same things that other people are saying about Ponder.
Instead, you can’t take your purple-homer glasses to realize this is a QB that struggled in the ACC and folded the few times Florida State played quality competition.
Not really
I view Ponder the same way I view Every other QB in this draft. You don’t know shit until they actually make plays on the field.
Is your head so far up your ass to realize that?
Who said life was fair?
When I find that person I'll beat the hell out of him
Don’t say things like that, or you will be banned.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 2:56 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I am sorry
but I admit I did feel like this yesterday after the pick but I got over quick.
I haven’t seen the guy play for our team yet so it is not right for me to come up with those conclusions.
after all the bitching and crying STILL over the pick kinda pisses me off
Who said life was fair?
When I find that person I'll beat the hell out of him
He has only "folded" in ONE GAME
game 2 of last year AT Oklahoma. Not only are they the most hostile home team in college football, but they were a great team last year. Not only that, but they had a bad front line (much like us) and he was injured.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 2:53 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Simply not true.
Struggled in the ACC? You mean was the Heisman canidate they promoted? Beat Miami and Florida? Ok they lost to Oklahoma, number 6 in the nation….
I'm with Chris and Ted
Give him a chance before we crucify him. The draft is somewhat of a crap shoot anyways and deep down we all know it. There’s no telling who will be the superstar or superbust (Brady at #199 or Ryan Leaf #2 overall case in point). Can’t think of a better scenario than to have Webb and Ponder going head-to-head in training camp and may the best QB take us to the promise land. I’m now on the Ponder bandwagon until he proves otherwise.
"Skol Vikings! Let's win this game Skol Vikings!
NOW!
So am I. Just like most on this board including Chris and Ted. What people are debating is the conviction prior to.
by NorthPoleNorseman on Apr 29, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Ill give gim a shot...
As long as he blows Webb out the door in Camp lol.
He better not be head to head with Webb LOL.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
I just hope he is not head to head with McNabb.
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
Exactly
what I just mentioned.
Content with the pick simply because it is not McNabb, Jackson, or Webb.
I actually like Webb...
I was referring to Favre. McNabb I’m not a fan of at this point. TJack had his opportunities.
I still think Webb may surprise some folks in camp
He’s got a great attitude and a good work ethic. Ponder “should” win the battle, but you never know. Either way, it’ll make them both better
"Skol Vikings! Let's win this game Skol Vikings!
So, if the NFL goes back to its old rules, we are likely getting both Rice and Edwards back right?
If so I am rooting for OL with our second round pick since I want Ponder to at least have a chance next year…
Let loose the hogs of war!
Dogs of war..
Whatever farm animal of war, Lana...
If Webb comes out...
And looks like a Million Bucks…im going to cry….i dont know if it will be tears of joy or sadness lol.
We now have a 1st round QB like it or not…I want to see his butt on the field Day 1 regardless of when they Day 1 happens lol.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
Everyone is happy
simply because his isn’t Tavaris Jackson or Joe Webb.
Yet, a couple of days ago everyone was arguing for Andy Dalton, including Chris himself.
http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/4/28/2138558/closing-arguments-andy-dalton
What happened?
People are still throwing Dalton around...
Just not as much as starting to accept the fact it doesnt matter lol
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
2 hours
Until round 2. And I for one am excited for the vikes pick. Like or dislike we get to start the debate again. Thus the beauty of the draft.
by NorthPoleNorseman on Apr 29, 2011 2:56 PM CDT reply actions
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
This debate has been mean and evil LOL.
Althought I saw a Mock with us taking an Iowa boy named Christian something….
We will have God on our side with two Christian kids in the first 2 rounds!!!
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
Ponder might surprise some people who dogged him...
2. Christian Ponder, Florida State (6-2, 229)
Ponder’s No. 2 ranking on this list might be better described as "1-A" because, if not for his injuries, he might have put together the kind of year at F.S.U. that would have made him the clear-cut top QB prospect in this draft.
Ponder has developed into a strong decision maker. He consistently makes the correct presnap reads for quick throws to the right receiver as the coverage dictates. He also uses his eyes to draw defenders away from an area he intends to throw the ball.
He has a smooth, compact release, and his drops are precise from center. He operates from a pro-style offense and has a good understanding of the mechanics and reads involved with it. His transition to the N.F.L. should be smoother in this respect than with some of the more athletically heralded prospects in this draft class.
He has big enough hands to execute very convincing pump fakes and play fakes. I also like that against blitzes or tight zones, Ponder was willing to fire the ball into a tight window when he believed his read of the defense was the best opportunity for his offense to execute a productive play. He repeatedly demonstrated a quick drop, a fast release and good velocity on these short to intermediate throws.
Ponder does a good job of climbing the pocket, but he also has a solid internal clock to know when he has to release the ball before pressure begins to break down. He can throw the ball on the move with accuracy and velocity to his left or right to the intermediate range of the field. He demonstrated this impressive touch and accuracy to his left on throws over 20 yards downfield.
Ponder tends to overthrow receivers rather than underthrow them on downfield routes. This is prominently seen on routes designed to arrive under the safety and "in the bucket," where the pass has to drop down at a sharper angle. This is where Ponder doesn’t use his eyes as well as he does on shorter routes.
He has good enough velocity to start in the N.F.L., but I didn’t see evidence of an elite arm. Ponder also suffered a significant injury to his throwing shoulder as a junior and played through an elbow injury for the final six weeks of the 2010 season. In fact, he never seemed completely healthy in 2010.
The question most will have with Ponder is, Will he be the player who looked like a borderline franchise QB in 2009, or the weaker-armed player who was inconsistent and rusty in 2010? I’m more inclined to believe Ponder will be more like the 2009 player who looked fantastic against a North Carolina defense loaded with N.F.L.-capable athletes.
Ponder might not be the flashiest of the quarterbacks in this class, but he could turn out to be one of the best because of his smarts, underrated athleticism and excellent accuracy and mechanics in a pro-style offense. He might be the most prepared quarterback for the N.F.L. in terms of his combination of athleticism, passing skills and understanding of the position.
.
SKOL VIKINGS
Also,
all talk about shoulder surgery was nothing but propaganda. A piece of muscle became loose, and fluid got in there. They sucked out the fluid and his muscle healed. But some people will still say “he might still be injured, it could happen again”. The last time it was drained was before the FSU vs. SCar game, new years day…… almost 5 months ago.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 3:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks...
for that indepth on draining of muscle fluid….ill skip dinner now….
ewww…
yay, but ewww
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
lol
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 3:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Somehow I managed to not make my point
I’ll make it now: Christian Ponder has never had shoulder surgery.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 3:42 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Um, yes he did
A separated shoulder ended his 2009 season…
He has completely recovered from his separated shoulder which required surgery…
Linked story here
WR, CB, K & P of the Minnesota Machine
What did I say a few comments up??
Propaganda. Just like Obama is a Muslim, and his birth certificate is fake.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Apr 29, 2011 4:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
After sleeping over this I have come to terms with this pick
It was a reach you can’t deny that, but he is a good QB. Destroying A guy before he steps one toe on the field is ridiculous, I which I myself was guilty of doing when I first heard the pick. Fans will continue to Bitch and Moan about this, but that is there god given right as fans of this football team. But the thing is that every he does will magnified and every mistake that he make will most likely be highlighted in novel length posts by the very same haters. It’s a shame really it is, the kid will hear the boo’s day one.
Who said life was fair?
When I find that person I'll beat the hell out of him
For heaven's sake we gave T-Jack more of a chance
I think we can give Ponder the same.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 29, 2011 3:09 PM CDT reply actions
So many people with ESP
No not ESPN but ESP…….so many can predict the future but they never stick around to eat crow when they are proven wrong, the kid hasn’t played a game in the NFL yet but people have him labeled as a bad pick.
Nobody and I mean nobody knows for sure what may happen………Leaf, Russell, White, were all supposed to be the next superstars…….guess the so called experts missed the boat on those ones huh?
LOL
In that article it says C-Pond is somewhere between Chad Henne and Chad Pennington… Doesn’t that say it all? They guy might be the greatest quarterback ever but if he gets dropped all over the field and is hurt 50% of the time does it matter? Not much of a consolation prize.
I think all the purple realists only want to splash some cold water on this thing and call it like they see it. The kid could be great or a flop, but let’s not forget who was still on the board @ 12 and the fact that Favre, TJax, and Webb weren’t the only ones stinking up the place at times last year.
whether he ends up being good or not doesn't matter
what matters is how likely he is to be good compared to how likely the other players on the board are likely to be good. he doesn’t size up under that metric.
Considering QB is the most important position of all
You have to give it extra weight.
by Jepp The Viking on Apr 29, 2011 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, that's not true
Because that statement disregards organizational need. And ‘likely to be good’ doesn’t answer what red flags the Vikings might have decided someone like Fairley had for them, for instance. If the guy doesn’t fit your system, you don’t draft him, regardless of what he might do someplace else.
by Shawn Gillogly on Apr 29, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm willing to wait a couple years
But I don’t have to wait to call this an act of desperation. It was.
"We can't get pushed around," Haley said. "What commentators say about us, that's their job. My job is to try and limit as many people who want to take liberties with our guys as possible."
by BobbyNystromOwnsYou on Apr 29, 2011 4:03 PM CDT reply actions
Outside looking in
By the 10th pick of round 2 all the top QB prospects will be gone and at least 2-3 clubs will be without one. The Vikings are not going to be one of those teams.
Be glad.
by Siegfried59 on Apr 29, 2011 4:46 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
You guys
Go over to tomahawk nation ( sbantion’s FSU blog) and check out my fanpost there. Trust me, the comments will really make you buy into ponder.
by Coolio12 on Apr 29, 2011 5:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Linked
Here.
Pretty impressive. Vote of 212 to 1 in favor of him being successful for the Vikings (wouldn’t be at all surprised if that “1” was from these parts).
Some great quotes from the thread:
I can honestly say that he was the guy I wanted with the ball when the game was on the line. He has that "IT" factor in my opinion.
The talent around him, especially at the skill positions was not very good. Receivers were dropping balls and running bad routes. Running backs did not know the blocking schemes and had trouble staying healthy.
Let me second Jason’s comments regarding Ponder’s toughness. The guy is nails and his team mates followed him for that. He was not a cheerleader or a "rah-rah" guy, but someone that leads by example. He is a competitor and a leader. More importantly, he will do what his team mates need to gain that respect.
He is the best college QB I have seen in the pre-snap phase of the game in recent memory. He is outstanding reading defenses and making checks. Fisher would often give him three plays from which to choose based on his pre-snap read. He gave Christian more freedom in handling the offense than any of the QB’s he’s previously had.
After the UF game, some UF defensive players mentioned that he recognized all of UF’s blitzes and correctly called out the gaps they wanted to attack…the quote was something to the effect of, "It was demoralizing that he would consistently tell the offense exactly what the defense was about to do."
Ponder has a tendency to stare down his receiver and that will need to change, as will his tendency to sacrifice his body to make three yards or to tackle someone after a bad play.
Needs to get better at reading defenses once the ball is snapped, but what college QB doesn’t? He’s a smart, good character guy. Probably be great with the fans and the community…He’s a very good athlete. He’s not Newton but his speed/agility numbers were very close to Locker’s and everybody claims he’s some uber athlete. He’s able to escape the pocket and throws well on the run. He is a good runner for a QB as well.
I will always say Ponder had the "it" factor. Unfortunately, in the biggest moments so far far, his receiver can’t catch (Forston), his running back fumbles on the goalline (Georgia Tech), his defense can’t stop anyone (Georgia Tech the next year), or his runningback knocks the ball out of his hand (you know). The quality of Ponder? He took the blame for everything and didn’t blink.
FSU against Miami in 2009. If you follow college football at all you probably know how much of a pressure packed game that is. Guys have made mistakes in FSU/Miami games and had it follow them their entire careers and lives. Ponder led us to the goalline in the final seconds, and on the last play delivered a pass that should have been caught for a winning TD, but the receiver dropped it. After the game Ponder took the blame himself. Didn’t push blame any on the receiver, the defense which would let him down numerous times that season, or the coaching staff which was honestly a complete disaster that whole year.
if the play breaks down.. i want the ball in Ponder’s hands
You can call them homers if you want, but they sure didn’t pull any punches on the other players on the team. They all seem to be genuinely sold on this guy and were very articulate and thought out in their responses. Certainly makes me feel better about things.
Worst part about ponder
will be the lame puns that will haunt his career…at least he’s not andrew luck

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