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Guess Which Team Is Retiring Jersey #4? Hint: Not The Minnesota Vikings...

So because this turned into a 7th grade girls thread, it's getting locked.  Seriously folks, the rules that Kyle laid out at the beginning of the thread didn't equate to splitting the atom, for God's sakes--Ted

Internet_is_wrong_medium

What this became.

 

Don't want to read a story regarding Brett Favre? That's cool. In that case, I would strongly suggest moving along....... NOW.

So, here I am breaking my own current vow to not write about Brett Favre stuff for this website. There are two reasons for that: first, not being a resident of Minnesota, I feel somewhat unqualified to write as in-depth about the stadium as some of the other writers here (and for an example as to why I'm right, just look at the stuff Skol Girl and Ted put out. Think I could write anything close to that? Nope). Ergo... I have nothing else to write about. Secondly, I'm breaking my vow because I have a feeling that this story is actually going to shock somewhere between 25-40% of the readership here at DN.

Now, two other things before we get started. First off, this is not to bash Favre, Favre supporters, or those who became Viking fans thanks to Favre and have decided to stick around. Hey, I'm a former Moss bandwagon-jumper myself, so I hold nothing against the new Favre-bandwagon jumpers. We all have our own ways of coming into true fandom, and one way isn't inferior or superior to the other. To those who have joined us from the beginning of Favreaggedon- welcome, hope you stick around. Honestly, if you're still here after last seasons' debacle, then you get a share in our eventual Super Bowl victory just as much as others here. The second thing is a disclosure- while I was a Viking fan long before Favre came around, and would still be one regardless of what he had done- I liked the guy coming on board. I thought 2009 was exciting as hell, I enjoyed him joining forces with us to beat down the Packers twice that season, and I even appreciate the fact that he seemed to be a team player and a guy who was at least willing to give it his best effort in 2010, results be darned.

And since I've said all that already- if anyone doesn't want to read this story... just stop now and read something else. If you post in the comments that this isn't sufficiently Viking-related or that you hate Favre's guts or that you want to find me and burn my house down for writing this, your comment won't be visible for very long. Fair enough? Cool.

Star-divide

Favre_packers_medium
As great as 2009 was, THIS is really the image that Viking and Packer fans... along with the majority of the NFL... will remember in just a few years.

 

Now, onto the actual story. Again, for the DNer's here who joined us alongside Favre and have stuck around, for those of you who are younger and to whom Favre is the only actual memory of a real quarterback on our team (ergo, the post-Culpepper crowd)- don't get your hopes up on #4 being a retired jersey for the Minnesota Vikings.

Green Bay Packers President, CEO, and Prince of Darkness Mark Murphy told Pack fans on Wednesday that Green Bay will, indeed, be retiring Favre's jersey one day. Obviously, the hold-up is the whole ‘is he actually retired?' question. (The correct answer is yes- he is. But I don't blame the Pack for playing it safe regardless.) Now again, since I assume part of the crowd I'm writing for here might be younger, let me explain this- this should not be a surprise. I have always considered Favre, even to this day, more a Packer than a Viking. IF Favre had helped us win a Super Bowl in either of his seasons with us, that MIGHT have actually been debatable. Actually, it really wouldn't have been- 16 seasons vs. 2 seasons really isn't a fair fight. But, it would have at least opened a potential debate into which team might consider the honor of retiring his jersey, or at least retiring it first. And still, you'll notice I used words like ‘if' and ‘might' in caps.

Consider this an education into perspective on our recent history. Yes, I again appreciate what Favre did for us, and I don't wish to erase that from our history. 2009 certainly ranks up there in the ‘magical' seasons in Viking legend, and he was a huge, integral part of that. However... prior to that, Favre largely made a career being a consistent thorn in our side. (We kept it all balanced by having a guy named John Randle around, who was in turn a constant thorn in Favre's side.) Let's actually take that statement and examine it for a second- arguably the last great player-on-player rivalry we as a team have enjoyed had Favre on THE WRONG SIDE.

And just like how those of us who remember Favre as a career, and not just as a blip, will mostly remember him as a pain in the butt, most Packer fans (OK, I'm guessing here- Packer fans, feel free to sound off and tell me I'm wrong if I am, your comments will remain visible) will ultimately remember Favre bringing them from the basement of the NFC to many consistent years, as well as two Super Bowl appearances and one win. While yes, he broke hearts and ticked off a lot of people by going to the ‘enemy', his career as a whole is far more favorable towards the Packers than it is against it. The various records he broke while on our team were built on what he did in his time with the Pack.

As a funny aside, according to the Green Bay Press-Gazette, there was a ceremony to retire Favre's jersey intended for the season opener in 2008... against the Minnesota Vikings. Of course, that was delayed by Favre's stint with the New York Jets... but the irony of it all is just delicious when you consider what happened after that.

And if nothing else, that little revelation has got to make Viking fans smile just one more time thanks to that Brett Favre fellow.

Comment 68 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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First!!

Brett Faaaaaaarve!
Regardless of team affiliation, the man is a legend and deserves no less. Thanks Brett for all the memories on both sides of the ball.

by cyberuck on May 13, 2011 1:38 AM CDT reply actions  

In a perfect world

Favre would take a look at what all of those ungrateful, unappreciative fans have said about him over the course of the past two seasons and tell that entire team, that entire franchise, and that entire state to go screw themselves.

Unfortunately. . .sadly. . .that won’t happen.

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 13, 2011 8:31 AM CDT reply actions  

He basically already did in 2008 but yeah, I wish he’d do that too.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on May 13, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

As was said, yeah, he wouldn't do that.

I mean, this is Brett Favre we’re talking about here. As much as I’d like to just go ahead and say nothing but nice things now, the truth is we all know he’s a prima donna who loves attention and adoration. I think he’s well aware that Viking fans are largely going to forget about him in three or so years, tops, particularly if Christian Ponder does his thing (like we all know he will). Packer fans are the best bet for him to secure a legacy, so look for him to be reaching out to mend fences and whatnot. Kinda like him saying prior to last seasons’ Super Bowl that the Packers were the best remaining team, that Aaron Rodgers was the best remaining QB, etc. etc. He’s in damage control now, and he’s returned to being the Packer legend and not the Viking hope.

Dear Yahoo! Sports: Please stop using that picture of Brett Favre holding his shoulder on the sidelines whenever you write about the Vikings. That is all, thank you.
Daily Norseman

by KJSegall on May 13, 2011 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

just how is he a prima dona?

the man played close to 300 games without missing a start. he played hurt, he played injured, he gave his all out on the field. so the last. so his last 2 yrs he didn’t go to training camp. both years he was recovering from injury and even if he wasn’t so what. after 18yrs of not missing a start I think he deserves a little slack.

and as far as the “attention” think goes. just how do you propose he stop the media from writing about him? do you really think he enjoyed having the media camped out on his lawn? do you really think he enjoys having the media take every word he says and twist it and turn it and make it into something its not?

I don’t believe he is in damage control at all. His fans are his fans. they will always be his fans. those small minded packer fans will not change their mind no matter what he says or does. they weren’t his fans to begin with. the fact is, the packers and rodgers were the best team and qb remaining. so he told the truth. had he said nothing everyone would say he was just being bitter and petty. so he tells the truth and everyone says he’s in damage control. give the man a break.

by FlFan on May 14, 2011 7:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

On field toughness doesn't mean he wasn't a prima donna.

His little “will I come back show” each season was pathetic and completely selfish. As was his getting angry with the Packers when they moved on. He was given lots of leeway by them but told "we need to know what you’re planning by X day so we can plan for the season. He then retires, changes his mind, and acts like they did him wrong when he knew in advance that they planned to move forward with Rodgers? That screams self interested knucklehead who doesn’t understand that he doesn’t always get his way. Most people have this figured out by age 18. Farve didn’t.

And to answer your questions, yes, I do think he enjoyed all the media attention each season.

by GoAUpher on May 14, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

first of all a lot

of players have changed their mind about retirement. Seau, retired and unretired 4×. strahan took until the last preseason game to deceide whether he was coming back, shoebel, retired and unretired twice in the same offseason only to finally retire, this is just a few over the past couple of years. so they are all prima dona’s? the difference is these players don’t garner the media attention favre does.

 favre never said the packers shouldn’t move on. He understood they wanted to move on. If the packers wanted to move on he also wanted to move on but the packers didn’t want him playing anywhere else and tried to bribe him to stay retired. when that didn’t work, they hired Ari Fleischer a political operative to smear him. It wasn’t until he forced the packers hand that they finally traded him. the packers could have handled it the way the niners did with montana. bring him in, tell him they’re moving on and work out a trade with a team that both parites were comfortable with.

by FlFan on May 15, 2011 7:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

If the packers wanted to move on he also wanted to move on but the packers didn’t want him playing anywhere else and tried to bribe him to stay retired.

They probably knew he wanted to go to the Vikings, and obviously didn’t want him to go there. The FO isn’t and wasn’t dumb. They didn’t move on from Favre because he couldn’t play anymore, they moved on cause he retired. Why wouldn’t they do anything and everything they could from keeping him away from a talented team whose only huge need was a QB?

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on May 15, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm with you.

in a perfect world he would do that. I wish he would. But brett has alot of fans in GB that did not turn on him. He would never slap them in the face by telling the franchise to go screw themselves. But I don’t think we will see him back in GB until the current management is gone.

by FlFan on May 14, 2011 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hall of Fame

Its an NFL thing, the Packers fans can sit-and-rotate, the guy is going to be mentioned as one of the top QB’s ever and will be till we have all gone to the grave. The new guy with the lamest TD celebration ever is a long way from even getting mentioned in his company, except by those same aforementioned group of fans.

Whether GB retires his number or not is really pretty much a non-conversation, whenever the Hall of Fame induction speeches happen 5 years from now, #4 can schedule his trip now.

by StuffIT on May 13, 2011 10:01 AM CDT reply actions  

No one...

will ever fill the G&G #4 at the same level… so retire it already.

I BELIEVE...

by ArizonaVikingsFan on May 13, 2011 10:11 AM CDT reply actions  

Dosen't He

look so young and not destroyed in this picture

by FFXVIKE on May 13, 2011 11:47 AM CDT reply actions  

and here I thought the Jets were retiring the number

I wonder if Minnesota could do it first. Just to piss of GB fans. Honestly I would be 100% behind it. Take this rivalry to a whole new level! FIRE BOMBS PEOPLE!

Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!

by Grime on May 13, 2011 11:54 AM CDT reply actions  

That's just almost

too petty for me. My thinking on the matter is, does a player who only plays two seasons, with one being phenomenal and one being… well, not so much… really deserve to have his jersey retired by us? At that point, it’s less about ticking off Green Bay and more about the sanctity of retired Viking jerseys. Now, as I said above, had we won our first Super Bowl behind his arm, I would certainly entertain the idea. But now that all is said and done, nah, I’m just not seeing it as worthy of the honor.

Dear Yahoo! Sports: Please stop using that picture of Brett Favre holding his shoulder on the sidelines whenever you write about the Vikings. That is all, thank you.
Daily Norseman

by KJSegall on May 13, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

well, deanna called, she thinks the LEAGUE should retire his number…..his cell phone number!

by danny lloyd on May 14, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Ha, I got tired of some of your comments in that Edwards thread but this is a good one!

I’ll even give it a rec because I never could come to totally accept Favre as a Viking.

by CanadianViking on May 15, 2011 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

sorry about that, i was dealing with an “attack of the knuckleheads” scenerio over there.
thanks for the rec.!

by danny lloyd on May 15, 2011 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

My thoughts on Favre, legacy, and number retirement

The Favre thing has reached a point of silliness on all sides. I think it’s hilarious when Viking fans want to adopt him and claim him as one of the family…calling Packer fans ungrateful. You know and I know you would have the same reaction if AP or Jared Allen would of done something similar…hell many of you would of had the same reaction if TT would of pulled off the Randy Moss trade a few years back. Those guys didn’t mean as much to the Vikings as Favre did to the Pack (although Moss and AP may be close), and so I laugh even if those proponents aren’t in on the joke.

Mr. Segall is dead on right when talking about Favre’s place in history. It’s how the big picture is going to shake out and that’s awesome. I could talk in figures like Namath and Montana, but I think I’m going to talk about something closer to home. Jim McMahon. Sure he played for the Vikings and the Packers…..but do we really think of him like that? Really when we talk about history we think of him being a dousch and doing the Super Bowl shuffle. Will we remember McMahon leading the Vikings to the playoffs or winning a SB ring with the Packers? No….he’ll be the punky QB that was a part of the 85 Bears. Favre’s memories will be similar even though he gave the Vikings one magical season.

As for memorializing, forigiving, and retiring the number? Well that’s just silly talk right now. It will happen, but the less it’s talked about the faster people will move on. As a Packer fan it was sweet to win the SB in Favre’s last year. There’s something so…..I told you so that was so awesome about it. It seemed to cover up for the big hurt that 2009 brought with Favre’s I told you so. However, the most annoying bit has been outsiders trying to brow beat Packer fans with Favre still with “you have to forgive him” lines. The dude hasn’t even been gone a whole year yet and he still may attempt a come back (he probably won’t but you never know). Geez…let us savor this win and move on. That’s how all these hurts heal.

by PackApologist on May 13, 2011 12:08 PM CDT reply actions  

I can't speak for everyone, but I would not hold it aginst the athlete.

If AP did it, if Moss had done it… whatever. The players always suffer the consequences of the business of football. They frequently are shown the door and pushed out. I know Packer fans like to believe that Favre wasn’t pushed out, but he surely was shown the door, and knew he was no longer wanted. If your boss hires your replacement and begins asking you when you will retire then you are not making that decision on your own terms.

Had Favre never come to a division rival it would be a much different story. If I was a Packer fan I think that I would hate that athlete as a member of a rival team, but not as a player, and it wouldn’t jade my appreciation for his career accomplishments. If Aaron Rodgers was a bust Packer fans would have aimed all of their animosity at TT. Ironically, since they really did make the right move and really didn’t want Favre anymore, he is their target. Are some Packer fans ungrateful?… hell fucking yes they are. You should just admit it and either justify it or reconsider. Either way, you’re kidding yourself if you think that everyone else would feel the same as you.

by Jshore on May 13, 2011 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Packer fans wanting to let "hurts" "heal"

Wow. . .I know it’s still early on, but I’m guessing that’s the funniest thing I’m going to hear all day.

I’ll tell you what. . .we’ll concern ourselves with letting Packer "hurts" "heal" the minute every Wisconsin-based football fan on the planet stops bringing up four Super Bowl losses, the 1987 NFC Championship game, the 1998 NFC Championship game, the 2000 NFC Championship game, the 2009 NFC Championship game, Korey Stringer, the Vikings "missing their draft picks," the "Love Boat," the roof of the Metrodome collapsing, and the mythical "Los Angeles Vikings."

Yeah, Packer fans have it so damn rough it’s ridiculous. I don’t know how on earth any of you cope with it.

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 14, 2011 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thank you

That’s why Minnesota sports fans are the best fans in sports, and there isn’t a close second. Regardless of what mindless, uninformed idiots will say to the contrary, no matter what happens to our teams, we’re always right there.

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 14, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Minnesota should retire Favres number,

after all, he’s the only Viking QB to win a Super Bowl, granted he was with the Packers, but he did win a NFC championship with the Vikings to go with his Super Bowl.

by joeybal56 on May 13, 2011 2:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Hey!

No beating me to the punch. Makes me look bad. >X(

Dear Yahoo! Sports: Please stop using that picture of Brett Favre holding his shoulder on the sidelines whenever you write about the Vikings. That is all, thank you.
Daily Norseman

by KJSegall on May 13, 2011 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

...?

Few things are off here. First off, Favre DIDN’T win an NFC Championship with us… he took us there, but we lost. (Had we won, we would have been in the Super Bowl.) Secondly, Brett Favre wasn’t the only QB to play for the Vikings to have won a Super Bowl elsewhere. Brad Johnson did that (Tampa Bay) and Jim McMahon did it (Chicago). (We might even have another guy somewhere out there who did… we’ve had a loooot of quarterbacks.)

Dear Yahoo! Sports: Please stop using that picture of Brett Favre holding his shoulder on the sidelines whenever you write about the Vikings. That is all, thank you.
Daily Norseman

by KJSegall on May 13, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Love/Hate Relationship

Brett Favre was the kind of big personality and big on-field presence that was always going to provoke a love/hate response from football fans. When he was with the Packers, he annoyed me, always seeming to get highlight reel moments against the Vikings. I didn’t think I would be able to cheer for him when he became a Viking, it just seemed too weird. But that lasted for about a game-and-a-half because Favre, wherever he was, was all in. He had a genuine excitement for football and appreciation for his new teammates. And, of course, the Vikings had a great season with him in 2009—that goes a long way. But it is true, the bulk of his career was spent in Green Bay and, together Favre and the Packers had quite a run. Hopefully, they can kiss and make up, embracing the legacy rather than the acrimonious parting.

Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin

by Skol Girl on May 13, 2011 3:10 PM CDT reply actions  

best year with the Vikes

For all that he did on the football field, his best year ever as a football player in terms of his own performance will always be 2009, with the Minnesota Vikings.

If only the Vikings hadn’t made the Herschel Walker trade, and then drafted him out of college.

by medicineball on May 13, 2011 6:03 PM CDT reply actions  

it’s this kind of petty comment that makes me embarrassed to ever have been a packer fan.

by FlFan on May 14, 2011 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

i think they might be talking about brett rhomar, but i can’t be certain, cuz i don’t think he is a kicker.
wait, you were a packer fan?….i think that falls under a “don’t ask, don’t tell” kind of thing.

by danny lloyd on May 14, 2011 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

From a Die Hard Packer fan:

Good article – not incredibly biased and one sided, but logical and thought through. That isn’t always the case on DN. Thank you.
-
First, I for one (and there are many like me) have not forgiven Favre. And I won’t until he at least pseudo-apologizes in a Greta van Sustern type interview. Since that won’t happen before Murphy, Thompson and McCarthy leave, I don’t expect Favre’s jersey will be retired until at least 2015 – possibly longer. He’ll be in the HOF before he’s in the Packer Ring of Honor.
-
Second, Favre holds almost all the meaningful NFL records for passing and longevity. And he deserves to. But (and you all now know this from personal painful experience) the fact is that he’s always been a big game choker. His worst side (BrINT) comes out at the worst possible time. Consider this: He individually ended his team’s season with stupid (and I mean STUPID) playoff 4th quarter or overtime interceptions in 1995, 1997, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007 and 2009.
-
I know the argument could be made (and it is valid) that those teams would never have been in the good position they were in, both throughout the season and often in those games.
-
Favre was one of the top 10 QB’s to ever play. He was a big part of resurrecting GB as a football powerhouse. He is also a megalomaniac, excessively proud, a ‘me first’ guy, and a choker. The emotions he drags up in all NFL fans (especially NFCN fans) are probably as complex and contradictory as the guy himself.
-
For all these reasons, his jersey should be retired in GB, along with a number of others (Reggie, Woodson, and possibly someday AR’s) and he should be put up in the ring of honor. But I’m in no hurry. A cooling off period of 10 years or so in this case is probably a good thing.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 1:53 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes, clearly we need to be more balanced

And have more discussions like this one.

I’m not sure if my favorite comment is the one where Trollman tells another GB fan to “GO F*** themselves,” the one where someone replies by calling him a “f***ing idiot,” the one where somebody actually boos the Vikings having a stadium deal because he was really, really hoping they’d move to Los Angeles, or the one where anybody in the entire comments section tries to pretend that they have any damn idea what they’re talking about.

Yeah. . .I guess all of us around here really need to grow up or something. Or curse more. You know, whichever.

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 14, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

...

That flamewar is out of control.

What?

by Arif Hasan on May 14, 2011 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

There’s been many of them lately. Sucks.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on May 14, 2011 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is depressing

Any part of me not consumed with Viking loyalty feels for you.

by Arif Hasan on May 14, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

That article is certainly not one of the better ones at APC

No doubt there Chris.

Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!

13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!

Nuff said....

by Jabooty on May 16, 2011 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

he's not a big game choker.

once you get to the playoffs it’s not all about the qb. favre did not lose the 2004 playoff game. does 4th and 26 ring a bell. the 2007 playoff game had either harris or woodson been able to cover plaxico or had the defense gotten any pressure on eli, the packers would have won. Had the vikings not fumbled the ball 5x in 2009 or had the coach been able to count to 11, the vikes would have won. the difference between the way the 2010 packer defense played and the 2004, and 2007 packer defense played is the differnce between going home with a trophy or just going home. funny how everyone calls peyton manning the best ever and his record in the playoffs is below 500. so I guess when his team loses it’s everyone else’s fault but when favre’s teams lose, it’s only favre’s fault? Brett favre has more playoff wins than any other qb except montana. that’s hardly choking in the big game.

by FlFan on May 15, 2011 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Once again, revisionist history rules.

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 15, 2011 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nope

Who threw that ATROCIOUS overtime interception? Was it Nick Barnett? Or Darren Sharper? No. It was BF. AND further – did the defense allow PHI to charge down the field in OT to kick the GW FG? Nope again – BF threw the pick RIGHT AT the PHI guy at his own 35.

Seems like a few Vikings fans need to ‘brush up’ on their NFL history.

by TXBearmeat on May 15, 2011 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Really?

2 examples?

Yea, he throws interceptions and they tend to occur late in the game. But guess what? His chokingest interceptions are no worse for games than league average. Also, he can’t be that big of a choke artist—2 SB appearances and a win.

Also, he has the 4th most 4th quarter comebacks and final, game winning drives in NFL history. With something like 30 4th quarter comebacks and 45 game-winning drives. I don’t care how long he’s been playing – that’s impressive.

by Arif Hasan on May 15, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

If either Darren Sharper or Nick Barnett

Does their job on 4th and 26 and gets in front of Freddie freaking Mitchell (of all people), the game doesn’t go to overtime, Favre’s interception never happens and the Packers go to the NFC Championship game that year against the Panthers, and quite possibly to the Super Bowl against New England.

You do realize that’s the order that those events occurred in, right?

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 15, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously

You got beat by Freddie freaking Mitchell.

Was it Favre’s job to cover Freddie freaking Mitchell on fourth and 26?

Was it Favre’s job to cover Plaxico Burress in the 2007 NFC Championship Game? (Hell, it must have been. . .Al Harris and Charles Woodson sure as hell didn’t feel like doing it, from the looks of things.)

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 15, 2011 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I've already stated

That GB lost the 04 game to the Iggles as a team. The Defense put the team in the coffin. BF nailed it shut. This is similar to AP putting the Vikes in the coffin against the Saints and BF nailing it shut in Jan of 09. He nailed 7 season ending coffins shut in his career. He was a big/late game choke artist – and this is the case no matter how one wants to view things.
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Yes BF is an all time great. I stated exactly that earlier. Yes, he was a great QB for GB. Yes, he has the most 4th Q comebacks and Postseason TD’s. That tends to happen when you play for a good team for 16 of your 20 years in the league. Yes, his #4 will be retired and should be at some point in the future.
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No, I don’t miss him. No, most GB fans don’t either. Yes, he got what he deserved last year, and the poetic justice or irony is unreal the way things played out.
-
It’s obvious we won’t agree, and I’m sure you won’t miss me – so I’m out for now. I’m sorry that some of you don’t seem to wish to discuss football in a reasonable manner, and that this site suffers for it.
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All the best.

by TXBearmeat on May 15, 2011 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep, those are fair points. There were other factors in us losing in those playoff games. But Brett Favre was…well Brett Favre. Everyone expected more out of him because of what he had done up to that point. Like always, the QB gets too much praise when the team wins and too much blame when the team loses. It’s just how it goes down.

Fire Slocum

by packallday555 on May 15, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well Said

I don’t think Favre deserves the criticism on our playoff loss to Philly that year. Our defense was atrocious that year. 4th and 26…..that was embarrassing! Did Favre single handily cost us playoff games? Absolutely, but did he cost us all of them? No. 6 interceptions against St. Louis speaks for itself. The Giants game is up for debate, but Favre made a mistake in the most crucial time on a play he didn’t have to be risky in. Nevertheless though, Favre did get us that far. He may not be a winning QB in the playoffs like Bart Starr was, but Favre certainly will go down as one of the greatest to play the game. Starr may be forever recognized as a championship QB, but Favre will always be remembered for his magic, charisma, and humor. Favre truly was a QB like no other in the history of this game, and that’s the most important thing to remember.

Just to put in my say over this topic though, I think the Packers should retire Favre’s number and Favre as a Packer in a couple years. I would rather see Favre retire in front of the crowd with all cheers instead of mostly boos. I think Favre would agree with that too. He will undoubtedly be remembered for his 16 years of stellar performances, but it will take a few years for many to forget what he pulled in his 3 seasons after playing in Green Bay.

Superbowl Champs Baby!!!!!

13 World Championships, soon to be 14 after next season...GUARANTEED!!!!!

Nuff said....

by Jabooty on May 16, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are dead wrong

Again, in my post before I stated that “I know the argument could be made (and it is valid) that those teams would never have been in the good position they were in, both throughout the season and often in those games.”

BF was a great QB. He made GB’s teams much better for over a decade. No doubt. BUT, whether you want to to try skew the facts or not, BF was a big game choker. Don’t lecture me on my teams’ past 20 years. I’ve lived through it.

by TXBearmeat on May 15, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

Huh?

I have never – not once – cursed out a fan of another team. If you are referencing someone else, that’s fine but don’t apply that same brushstroke to me.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 3:02 PM CDT reply actions  

Further

I don’t see how your response is at all related to my post…

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 3:02 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think Mr. Gates read past the first sentence.

You have to understand that saying “Good article – not incredibly biased and one sided, but logical and thought through. That isn’t always the case on DN. Thank you.” would be insulting to any of the writers on this site.

That said, his response was a bit much, especially the implication that all Packers fans acted the way some trolls on a different thread did.

by Mebera on May 14, 2011 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mebera

That is probably true – but a writer that can’t take some constructive criticism is a writer who shouldn’t write. If he can dish it out but not take it – especially when I’m not digging at him personally – then he should shut up and not post. I was simply stating I appreciate this article.
-
There was nothing wrong with the tenor of my post. I’m not saying I’m never obnoxious – I love the Pack and hate the Vikes. But I do have Viking fan friends – so I think the issue may more be his.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Constructive criticism is fine

Once you or any other Packer fan offers any, I’ll take it into consideration.

We’ve been around for five years. . .you’ve been a member here for approximately five weeks. If you’re going to wander over here and make stupid assessments of things that “aren’t always the case at DN,” you would be wise to know your place.

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 14, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Fair enough

I have not been here for 5 years. That was not fair of me. My apologies on that point – you are right.
-
However, I will argue that a deragatory tone toward the Packers in general (which is expected) and a dismissal of their fans as stupid, insulting and obnoxious as a whole is the general character here – that isn’t cool, nor generally true amongst the vast number of Packer fans I know and grew up with.
-
Notice I have commented on 3 stories only – and ALL three concerned my team. I have also been reading DN for almost a year – I have noticed this for that whole time.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

WTHeck

I have tried to. I got ridiculed, and censored. Repeatedly. Something about the wise willing to hear dissenting opinions and the fool not willing to do so should be inserted here.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

See

Maybe you need to redefine your definition of ‘constructive criticism’. That is when one comes to another to point out flaws in a product or line of reasoning for the purpose of helping to make it better. It is done in a good spirit. Maybe occasionally teasing – but never mean.
-
And had I known about your site in 2008 – I would have posted on articles that concerned me or my team. Yes, GB blew 6 games in ’08. And 4 or 5 early ones in 09 and 10 too.
You see, I can admit that.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

And

I clicked on your link. I don’t see a prob. with the article. If your prob is with "strohman’ or ‘andy’ the commenters, then you are hopelessly lost.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 3:50 PM CDT reply actions  

Gates

Seriously – you need to be able to be able to take some criticism or listen (at least a little) to those who don’t agree with you…. deleting posts because you are angry is all kinds of lame. And it’s not like I’ve been obnoxious… just putting in my opinion on a matter that concerns my team pretty closely.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 6:44 PM CDT reply actions  

I understand that there is tension between Chris Gates and Acme

But I think the reason he deleted the posts he deleted was because he thought that arguing that a player “deserved what he got,” which included injuries, was over the line. I feel that if he had deleted your post simply because he disagreed, he would have instead deleted your initial post and not your response to his comment.

I cannot speak for him, however.

by Arif Hasan on May 14, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Acme

I have no knowledge of a debate between Acme and Mr. Gates. I am not a part of that debate, nor do I really care that much.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

darn..

sorry -

I meant to push ‘enter’ in the body of the message – not to just post the title…
-
BF deserved the misery he got. He’s dealt with injuries all his career, and would have done so whether or not he decided to play his 19th and 20th seasons in the NFL regardless. The injuries were bound to happen – as they do to any NFL player.
-
So yeah. I stand by what I said. BF and his team deserve what they got. Again. Poetic justice.

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

So

Do you actively hope for every player in a purple and gold uniform to get injured, or only certain ones?

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 15, 2011 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Again, WT Heck

I don’t ‘actively’ root for ANY Vikings players to get hurt. My point was simply that it’s the NFL. QB’s (and every other player) get hurt. I don’t root for them to do well, and I would be lying if I said I wasn’t really pleased at the outcome of the 09 and 10 Vikings Seasons, especially concerning BF, but injuries aren’t what I’m talking about in this instance. Again, BF played injured his whole career – way moreso with GB and NYJ than he was with MIN. The difference this past year was the stringent rules put in place on concussions. He had way worse when he was a Packer…

by TXBearmeat on May 15, 2011 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

You should probably address the person

That actually did the hiding of your comments.

But hey. . .it’s always better to just run off at the mouth than to have all of your facts straight, isn’t it?

SBNation Minnesota - For the greatest sports fans in the world.
The Daily Norseman - The greatest Vikings' site on the Internet!

by Christopher Gates on May 14, 2011 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Comments hidden

Either way – it doesn’t matter. Rational discussion is always better than a pee contest – and anytime I’ve come to DN with any comment, regardless of tone, it’s been vehemently argued, then ridiculed, then deleted. That. Is. Bogus.
-
I enjoy repartee with opposing fans. I enjoy talking football. I enjoy rational discussions. But when it comes to Packers/Vikings, that seems to be outside the realm of possibility here. That is too bad – and it detracts from the site, not to mention continues to operate as a blindfold to the the purple and yellow fans that come here.
-
Don’t get me wrong, there are idiotic Packer fans and idiotic and bad Packer blogs. But you will find the biggest ones (cheeseheadtv.com, jerseyal.com among others) have rational posts and serious discussion – regardless of how the bloggers “feel” about opposing fans.
-
Just my opinion. Again, this is your blog and you can do what you want. But if you want to make it better….

by TXBearmeat on May 14, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

To clarify that..

as I should have done a few days ago, but alas I’ve been away- the comments that were hidden were NOT hidden by Mr. Gates, so don’t bash him for that. They were hidden by me. Some of your comments here I’ve allowed, as they are either responses to others or at least fairly level headed. I don’t expect you to be unbiased, however, I did warn that any posts that offered nothing more than bashing Favre or bashing Favre supporters would go the way of the dodo. I read some of your comments as such and therefore I took the action I promised in the intro. When I invited Packer fans to comment, it was in the context of clarifying whether or not they felt that Green Bay would ever actually forgive Favre, and in time remember him as a Packer more than a Viking- since I claimed that I felt this was the case, but not being a Packer fan, also accepted I could have been way off.

So yes, to clarify Gates’ comments, the actions that resulted in your comments being hidden were neither undertaken by him nor were undertaken under his direction or ‘orders’- I did it on my own, based off of my warning in the intro. As a matter of fact, I only even informed him after the fact.

Dear Yahoo! Sports: Please stop using that picture of Brett Favre holding his shoulder on the sidelines whenever you write about the Vikings. That is all, thank you.
Daily Norseman

by KJSegall on May 16, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Closing the comments.

Unfortunately, I feel that the intention of this story (to inform and educate the newer Viking fans on both our history as well as a prediction for the future) has taken a turn for the worse in the comments section. I’m not a big fan of censorship, but at the same time, I think we’ve gotten everything we need out of this story.

Move along folks, nothing more to see here.

Dear Yahoo! Sports: Please stop using that picture of Brett Favre holding his shoulder on the sidelines whenever you write about the Vikings. That is all, thank you.
Daily Norseman

by KJSegall on May 16, 2011 5:59 PM CDT reply actions  

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