Buffalo wanted Ponder in 1st round
by rovibe on May 5, 2011 3:36 AM CDT
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PrintFormer NFL QB Jim Miller interviewed by USA Today on the draft's top QB picks. This might quiet a few more of those 'Ponder was a reach' complaints:
Miller thinks Vikings coach Leslie Frazier is right that Ponder will have a chance to start right away because of all of the weapons Minnesota has to support him.
Frazier said the Vikings got their Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez in Ponder, who completed 61.8% of his passes at Florida State.
"I know the Buffalo Bills were definitely going to trade up into the first round to get Ponder," Miller said.
"There were some other teams that liked him (because) he's probably the most pro-ready of this group.
"I'll take Leslie Frazier at his word that they expect Ponder to start Week 1.
"They have a good running back in Adrian Peterson and Pro Bowl wide receivers. It tells me they plan on re-signing (free agent) Sidney Rice.
"It's not like this guy is going to be asked to do everything. I don't think it's ideal for any of these rookies to play right away.
"But he is a guy who is capable of doing it given the guys around him."
Link to full article here.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Jacksonville and Miami
also wanted him apparently.
I knew Buffalo wanted him because the person calling out their 2nd round pick tweeted and later deleted the tweet about looking forward to calling his name.
Just on a side note, Jacksonville also overpayed to move up from 16 to 10 so it was a good thing we didn’t wind up overpaying with the little picks we had. Oh we also got better value for trading out of the 5th and picking up 2 6ths.
It's a good thing we got CP7 when we did...
I also heard the “Trekkies” were gonna trade up to get him, so he could be the Captain of the Starship Enterprise…
Whoooooo! thank God we had the foresight to take him before he was lost to the last frontier… :)
SKOL VIKES!!!
When you said
Jacksonville wanted him, I presume you mean before they shot up and got Gabbert? As in, they wanted Gabbert but were willing to get Ponder should Gabbert have been taken too soon?
Once upon a time, some guys from this group called "Navy SEAL Team Six" flew in on some helicopters into Pakistan. 40 minutes later... they flew out with the dead corpse of Osama bin Laden, with two bullet holes in his hea... wait, what? They also burned the mansion he was staying at to the ground?
AWESOME!
Daily Norseman
Buffalo wanted him?
Really? Then why didn’t they pick him? They had the #3 pick.
Don't ya love the 'reaching' talk
At #3, Ponder would have been a ‘reach’ for Buffalo. I guess they were counting on him to be available in 2nd round. Too many teams thinking the same thing means Ponder would NOT have been available and the Vikings with no real QB option for use in first half of season and need a veteran option. This can get messy with the court fracas in play.
At #12 for Vikings, they made the right call for a player that FITS with the Offensive Coordinator. There’s no reach here. Ponder would not be available at #43. End of STORY. Everyone who thought it was a reach did too much technical analysis and drinking of Mock Draft Beer.
Ponder and Webb have their playbooks. A best case scenario going forward. Any 2nd round or later QB selected or ‘veteran’ FA option would not have a playbook yet. Webb can build on his NFL pro-game experience and familiarity with the Vikings organization. Who knows, we may have a real exciting dynamic duo @ QB that will keep our opponents guessing.
by VikesFanSince1967 on May 5, 2011 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions
They didn't want him at #3.
But they wanted him somewhere before #33, and MN didn’t let them do it.
Buffalo would have moved back into the 1st round easily
They had the #35 pick so it’s not like they couldn’t have gotten back into the 20s pretty easily.
Skol!
I thought I heard the Redskins wanted him @ #16
So dropping back into the 20’s wouldn’t have worked.
That's the range they 'tried' to trade into
But it takes TWO to trade.
by Shawn Gillogly on May 6, 2011 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
The Vikings didn't want Dalton
If they thought Dalton was the QBOTF, then they would have drafted him at #12, but they didn’t. Not dogging on Dalton or anything, but the Vikings clearly thought having Ponder(regadless of where they got him at) was more important than getting more picks and a different QB.
Skol!
Ya . They took the ready guy instead of the better in the long run guy .
We got caught in a crap shoot by not trading up and down in the early rounds .
by gothicpurple on May 5, 2011 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
What does that even mean?
The “ready guy” as opposed to the “long term guy”. IMO, the guy who is ready for the NFL sooner has a leg up on the competition. Dalton will get thrown into starting early and that will actually be a detriment to his growth. If he can handle it, then he’ll be ok in the long haul. Ponder? He’s got a ton of talent around him to help him out. If he gets it figured out, he could be really good after the first couple of years. It’s ridiculous to logically try to think that because Ponder could start over Dalton week 1, that he will end up worse in the long run.
Skol!
It's really not a reach
He fits right into the system and is pro ready. I would rather they took him 20 picks early than be 1 pick late
We know already
you hate the pick gosh get over it!
☠★☪My dream, is to see the Minnesota Vi♛s win a superbowl. USA- the land were dreams come true. ☀ ツ This is our ۩۩house۩
by UnBannedVikingholic on May 5, 2011 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry man, but
This was the best option for the Vikes. I question whether Fairley will be any good in the NFL. He has questionable, to say the least, work ethic and was in constant rotation. Dalton is not a Pro ready QB. The Vikes would need to bring in a veteran this year to allow him to transfer to the NFL. I wasn’t a big fan of this pick either, but now that I ave studied this kids game, I believe it was a good pick. He may be able to step into the starting role right away.
I talked
to an Iowa fan today and he thought Ballard was a first round talent based off watching him play. I think we can take that with a grain of salt, but he was adamant that Ballard can play and frequently was playing as good as the other Iowa DL that was taken in the first.
As for Ponder and Dalton – ain’t the next few seasons going to be fun? I think Ponder has a reasonable chance at being successful. Did y’all watch the Sports Science clip Seifert posted? Maybe all the prospects could do that too; I was impressed. The more I learn and see of Ponder the more I wish I as a better football mind because I can see exactly what made Spielman and Frazier excited about his fit with us. What I want to know is how defenses are going to make it hard on Ponder, preventing timely third down completions. This could be a sneaky good QB prospect.
by Dr. Wolfenstein on May 6, 2011 12:44 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Re: Ballard
i live in Iowa, not sure if Ballard was 1st rd talent but definitely late 2nd rd guy. we got a steal in the 4th, plain and simple.
Thats what I said about Everson Griffen last year.
Sometimes what you get in the 4th round is 4th round talent.
Ponder has no idea how much pressure the fans will put on him. But he will succeed.
very true
and both with off-the-field issues, to boot.
nevertheless, the value there was too good to pass up with Ballard. hopefully he can keep his head straight.
I think that little puff puff was Ballard's only off the field issue
I’m not too bothered by that(helps when Percy does it too). Anyways, I wouldn’t say Ballard is a guy that’s going to take over a game, but he is a guy that tends to draw a lot of blocking his way. I thought Ballard looked better than Clayborn this past year. Ballard and Klug ran that DLine last year. Very good against the run, OK against the pass.
Skol!
doesn't bother me so much either
and yes, Ballard is stout against the run.
i like the idea of a Robison / Ballard / KWill / Allen line, eventually. (well, Guion [86 KWill] for the first 4 games, anyway…) throw in EG and Awasom, that’s a decent roster…perhaps not elite, but could prove to get the production we want at least in the near future.
Maybe a bit early for that assumption...
those in the know around the NFL say that it takes at least one (and sometimes two) years for a rookie DE to figure out how to be effective.
This kid was stupid off of the field, and acted like a thug, and has payed (and will continue to pay as the court proceedings play out) for what he did off of the field.
With that said, I haven’t seen a thing ON the field that suggests that Everson is merely a fourth round talent. If we are gonna hold out on determining what, and how Chris Cook, and Gerhart will play in the future; then that same amount of patience should be in place for Griffen.
Who knows, he may surprise…
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
Havn't really seen anything out of him yet
We have some solid DE’s right now, it would be difficult for any rookie to step up and take Edwards or Allens spot right now.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
So Fairley is a god before he's taken a snap
And Ponder’s a bum. Really?
Sorry, I’ll take the guy who produced his ‘entire’ collegiate career over a guy who was a 1 year wonder and has NEVER been an every down player before.
by Shawn Gillogly on May 5, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
What were you going to use to move up to #3 in the second?
Your non existent 3rd round pick? Its easy to say what the vikes wanted to accomplish. But trades don’t magically appear.
Plus if they had taken Fairley,and been prepared to move up in the 2nd there is no guarantee that Cincy still wouldn’t have moved ahead of the Vikes to get Dalton.
I am sure those who somehow don’t like the Ponder pick will keep at this for years. But get over it. It has been shown that Ponder was wanted by 2-4 teams. Why? Because he is that talented. The Vikes got, what they hope is a QBOF for one stinking pick. And that pick does not cost top 10 money. What a sweet deal for the Vikes.
Ponder has no idea how much pressure the fans will put on him. But he will succeed.
True, the "trade around" narrative
Never takes that part seriously either. Thanks to Chilly’s stupidity, we didn’t HAVE the ammunition to trade back into the 25-30 range. And no takers to ‘trade down’. So better to get what you want when you can than never.
by Shawn Gillogly on May 6, 2011 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions
we did have a number 12 draft pick to use to trade down with. i think the idea was to trade the 12 for a 20-something and a 2nd or 3rd roud pick to create equal value.
This was what I was addressing
We had NO third round pick to offer, thanks to Klink and the Moss trade. So we had ‘nothing’ to make that trade with.
It also takes trade partners to make such a trade work. And after Tenn. traded into the 10 spot, there was no one looking to get into our range. This is why they took most of their time to make the pick, to try to find a trade partner. It didn’t happen.
by Shawn Gillogly on May 7, 2011 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions
well, there were several potential partners to trade down with. we didn’t need a 3rd rpound pick to trade down with….we would use the #12 (i’m repeating, i know).
the goal would be to re-acquire that 3rd or better.
jax, new england, san diego, indy and baltimore were all potential trading partners. the vikes obviously didn’t get something done. but rumor is they were only looking to move down a little, thus reducing their opportunities.
i’m just bummed they couldn’t figure it out ahead of time so they could pull the trigger without having to scramble. but, maybe #12 was just too much of an anonymous place for teams to trade for.
Again, they tried.
No takers. You’re saying teams they talked to. None called back. It’s that simple. No one wanted to move ‘up’ into the spot. So I’ll ask again:
Do you take a guy you don’t like just because the board says you should? Or do you take the guy you believe in? Those were the options the Vikes had.
For my money, they made the right choice. If they had LIKED someone else in that spot, then it would be a different story. But the fact they were talking about trading back tells you all you need to know: They didn’t rate those players the way some here do.
by Shawn Gillogly on May 7, 2011 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions
uhh, whose comments are you responding to. i think you are trying to make a point about something that wasn’t discussed here.
first. you said that without a 3rd round pick of our own, that we didn’t have ammunition to move down in the draft…..tick-tock, tick-tock….then i said that we had the #12 pick, and that pick is what we would use to entice teams to trade up for, thus we would move back AND pick up a new 2nd or 3rd. that is all i said, shawn.
i even pointed out some of the teams that we could have potentially dealt with to show how that scenerio could feasibly work. furthermore, the redskins did move back with jacksonville, from #10 to #16, and they picked up #49 in the process. so clearly there was a trading partner willing to make that deal. obviously, the redskins pulled the trigger early enough to have it not be a 15 minute phone scramble. i just said i was “bummed” they didn’t do it and that #12 may not have been spot teams wanted, wow.
i read spielman’s quote that he had 3-4 teams CALL HIM about moving up to get our #12 pick. he said he would have to wait until he was on the clock to try to work out a deal. that sounds to me like he just wanted to stay put and pick ponder and wasn’t genuinely concerned with getting extra early picks or going after dalton.
No one wanted to move ‘up’ into the spot. So I’ll ask again: (a random question)
you never asked me a question in the first place, was this directed at someone else?
I'm asking the same question I'm asking everyone in the trade narrative.
Which REALITY would you prefer. Because there were no partners. Jacksonville couldn’t trade with US, because they had the same need. And I’m fairly certain the Vikes preferred Gabbert as well.
You wait until you’re on the clock because you can’t guess how things will fall. People expected Gabbert to go in the top 5, he almost fell to us. There were others who fell too. You can’t mail in a trade when you don’t know the math.
by Shawn Gillogly on May 7, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
but you hadn’t asked that question, to me or anyone else here. how can you “ask again” when you hadn’t asked anyone in the first place?
i said i’m bummed they didn’t work out a potential trade ahead of time so they don’t have to scramble if they wanted to move down. and, dalton went with the 35th pick in the draft, he was attainable. i think they probably wanted ponder all along and didn’t want to miss out.
Ponder is better than Dalton
I watched Dalton play on a team that was way more talented than anyone else in the conference, yes he is a winner, but that is why. He rarely got touched, had all day to throw, and wide open WR’s to throw to. Ponder faced better competition week in week out. Miami wanted Ponder at #15, Washington at #16, Dalton “fell” to #35 for a reason. I like Dalton but he is not as good as Ponder, and if Ponder is high floor, low ceiling, then Dalton is low floor, low ceiling because it’s going to take him longer to adjust to the NFL game and his talent is less of that of Ponder’s. Anyway Ponder is our QB so this arguement is moot.
oh, i like ponder. and i actually liked him more than dalton before the draft. but i’m having fun trying to hold shawn to a clear point.
I have asked it, here and on the other draft threads.
by Shawn Gillogly on May 8, 2011 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I will feel good if we can move our dead weight...
like Berrian and Madieu for any draft picks next year. Otherwise, I’m just going to keep telling myself that this year will be a fun ride….if this year even happens.
I will not be PONDERing anything, ever again....I'm so tired of this pun. Maybe we could use antonyms to be different, like: "FORGET about last season, as we COGITATE about winning in 2011!"...Whatever, SKOL VIKES!!!
by J.RO on May 5, 2011 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Berrian
might land us a very low draft pick, at best. His current contract could ruin that, however. I don’t think M Williams will net us anything.
Once upon a time, some guys from this group called "Navy SEAL Team Six" flew in on some helicopters into Pakistan. 40 minutes later... they flew out with the dead corpse of Osama bin Laden, with two bullet holes in his hea... wait, what? They also burned the mansion he was staying at to the ground?
AWESOME!
Daily Norseman
I will take a parking lot attendant to be named later
For M. Williams. Maybe BB will net a case of Grainbelt or if we are lucky two cases.
by SouthernNorseman on May 5, 2011 3:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Let’s aim high. MW & BB traded together for 3 cases, 10 large pizzas & a cheerleader to be named later
L. A. Player
by L. A. Player on May 6, 2011 7:02 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
get the name up front
or at least pair down the list of acceptable candidates to be named later. That one could really come back to bite you in the @$$.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on May 6, 2011 8:24 AM CDT up reply actions
True
Since we’re getting all this beer and pizzas, why not just ask for a 64in. TV and a cheerleader video of our choice. It’s about options. Besides, we gotta watch the game, right?
Skol!
and with the newer technology
the pictures are almost lifelike…almost…but not quite.
No one is getting Rubio's rights unless they pry them from our cold dead fingers.
by TheEvilProfessor on May 6, 2011 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Why not just cut them and use the savings to grab a FA or two?
And truth be hold, I wonder if the Vikings have plans to cut Jimmy K now that they have drafted Rudolph at TE. It would be a sad day if they do, but Jimmy makes a lot of dough and didn’t have a particularly good year last year (it seemed like he had a lot of penalties even though he is more of a situational player than an every down player. His blocking wasn’t as effective as in years past either).
Anyway, I don’t know what the salary cap implication would be if they are cut from the team, but they are three highly paid players and none of them was particularly effective last year — though Berrian and Williams are in a class of their own IMO.
Musgrave wants 2 TE sets
So they might be keeping one more TE on the roster than last year, or possibly replacing Dugan with Rudolph.
You think they'll keep the Sauce and toss Dugan?
Not sure that’s in the cards.. Heck I love the guy but sooner or later you got to let em go.
It's a lot easier to love the Vikings when they win...
Jimmy might be retiring...
Heard on KFAN more than once lately from Mike Morris that Jimmy K has said he doesn’t have another season in him. Of course, he wouldn’t be the first player to say that and end up coming back, but…
That just doesn't sound right.
He’s only 34 and essentially plays as an O-lineman. He has a few more good years left in him.
People shouldn't be surprised Minnesota couldn't trade down
Several of the ananlysts on ESPN and NFL Network started saying before the draft that:
1) This was a weak draft at most positions, and
2) A lot of teams would try to trade down, and
3) with no guaranty of a draft next year, trades for future picks would be risky and therefore fewer will happen
So that — -
It would be harder for a team like the Vikes to move down and acquire extra picks.
And they were right.
Exactly
If we don’t rate anyone a perfect fit for the #12 pick and want to get out, isn’t it equally likely that no one else saw anyone they were in a big hurry to jump up and ‘steal’?
by Shawn Gillogly on May 7, 2011 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions
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