Joe Webb: Could He Beat Out Christian Ponder For Starting Job?
by SweetTooth on Jul 19, 2011 9:41 PM CDT
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PrintWhen the Minnesota Vikings drafted Joe Webb in the sixth-round of the 2010 NFL Draft, the team was planning to utilize his physical ability at the wide receiver position; however, during rookie mini-camp, Webb was throwing the football around and caught the eye of the Vikings' coaching staff. By the end of training camp, Webb had solidified his spot as the Minnesota Vikings' third quarterback behind Brett Favre and Tarvaris Jackson.
There is no question that Webb is a rare athletic talent. Webb's college coach at UAB, Neil Callaway, who also coached Bo Jackson (arguably the best athlete of all time) while at Auburn, even went so far as to say that Webb is athletically "in the same league" as Jackson. However, there are still many questions about Webb's ability to handle the mental part of being an NFL quarterback.
In week 16, Webb showed a glimpse of what he is capable of. Filling in for an injured Brett Favre, Webb got his first NFL start as a quarterback, leading the Vikings to a 24-14 upset on the road over the red-hot Philadelphia Eagles on national television. Of course, Fred Pagac and the Vikings' defense played a huge part in the victory, but Webb, who had very minimal preparation before being thrown into the fire, played with impressive composure, command, and confidence.
After the Vikings defeated the Eagles, who were still fighting for home-field advantage in the playoffs, Percy Harvin talked about Webb's performance.
"You kind of knew he was focused in," Harvin told the St. Paul Pioneer Press. "He handled himself like a veteran during the game. In the huddle, you could tell he was commanding everybody, getting the linemen straight and letting everybody know he was going to change the snap count. I can't sit here and say I expect it to be that way."
Cool, Calm, and Collect-Joe Webb became only the second Vikings' rookie quarterback in franchise history to win his first career start (the other was Rob Vander Kelen in 1963).
This April the Vikings added another quarterback to the mix-Christian Ponder. Many believe that Ponder, who was taken with the 12th overall pick in the draft, will be handed the reigns when the Vikings open their season on September 11 against the San Diego Chargers; however, Leslie Frazier has stated-whether or not he really meant it-that there will be an open competition at the quarterback position.
Earlier this spring, Webb and Ponder spent a month at IMG Academy in Bradenton, Florida, digesting Bill Musgrave's new offense while training with quarterbacks coach Chris Weinke. Although Webb and Ponder will be competing with each other for the starting job, they got along just fine. In a Fox Sports Interview, Webb was asked for his assessment of Ponder.
"Great all-around guy. Great all-around tools. Great athlete-He can toss the ball very well. Very smart guy. There is nothing you can pick that's wrong with Christian. He's a great all-around guy."
According to Scout.com, the camaraderie between Webb and Ponder was almost instantaneous. Between lifting weight, studying film, and working on the field, there were plenty of chest bumps to go around. The two young quarterbacks even guarded each other during a pickup game of football (using a tennis ball) in the pool. In an interview with the Startribune, Webb shared his thoughts on befriending the competition.
"You can build that chemistry and the relationship. No matter who wins the job, both of us are going to need one another during the season. If I win the job, he'll be on the sideline looking at things. If he wins the job, then I'll be looking at the defenses. No matter what, it's good for us to be down here working together and getting in the playbook together."
Although none of the Vikings' big guns made it to the unofficial mini-camp held at IMG Academy, a few other players were able to attend: Rhett Bomar (QB), Kyle Rudolph (TE), Greg Camarillo (WR), Emmanuel Arceneaux (WR), Mistral Raymond (S), and Brandon Fusco (C).
Since training with Weinke, Ponder and company, Webb has spent the last few weeks with Brett Favre in Hattiesburg, Mississippi, working to improve his passing game. Favre, who was reluctant to take on a mentoring role while playing for the Green Bay Packers, seems to be intrigued by Webb's off-the-charts potential.
Before Webb made his first NFL start as a quarterback (against the Eagles in week 16), Favre shared his thoughts with the Birmingham News.
"I'm probably like most people. I'm excited to see (Webb). I love his attitude, his personality. There's no doubt the guy is as talented as they come...he's got the right mentality and guys love him."
It's easy to become enamored with Webb's style and grace on the football field, but it's not his physical stature, 42.5″ vertical leap, 4.43 forty time, or powerful arm that is most impressive-it's his demeanor, poise under pressure, confidence, and work ethic. He seems to have the "it" factor and plenty of swagger, but only time will tell if he can develop his passing game enough to become a true franchise quarterback.
With the lockout drawing to a close, training camp is right around the corner, and the two young quarterbacks will be engaged in a battle for the Vikings' starting job. Ponder is the clear favorite to win the job, but Webb has already shown the world that he is capable of pulling off a major upset. Either way, we will probably be seeing much more of Webb on the field this season. The Vikings' new offensive coordinator, Bill Musgrave, will likely have a special package designed to take advantage of Webb's athleticism. After all, it's hard to leave a young man (Joe Webb) with that much ability standing on the sidelines holding a clipboard.
My original article can be found here.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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^^^ this
let the best Viking win.
Vikings Valhalla .com
by Admiral BigGun on Jul 20, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Not happening
You don’t let a 6th round pick from a previous year win the starting job from your prize first round guy. To do so we be the equivilent of the vikings front office admitting that they really screwed up in picking Ponder.
If we don’t bring a veteran in, Ponder is starting. Now if Ponder really really sucks, I could see Webb coming in. But Ponder will get the first shot. Also, because we have a new offensive coordinator, Webb won’t have any “advantage” of knowing the offense more than Ponder.
by VikingsForever on Jul 19, 2011 11:07 PM CDT reply actions
Not saying he will...
But you pretty much just said to save face, the Vikings should start Ponder?
Regardless of who may or may not be a better QB at the time of season start.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
Um what?
No its not….
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
like it or not, it is
or do you think Phillip Rivers really ran Drew Brees out of San Diego with better play?
Maybe with the new salary rules there’ll be less pressure to start first rounders, but old habits are hard to break.
losing doesnt sell tickets...
Owners/coaches/ front office people all know this.
Every great QB isnt always a GREAT QB. Some mature and become that way and some start out that way.
But no i dont think teams play save face vs winning games.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
Whoever gives us the best chance to win
You don’t let a 6th round pick from a previous year win the starting job from your prize first round guy.
1. I’d be really pissed to find out that the FO felt that Webb was the better QB but they started Ponder instead to justify their draft choice. In fact, I’d be calling for their freaking jobs, after removing their heads.
2. What if they decide that Ponder lacks the mobility to be effective behind a porous O-line, and they’d rather keep him healthy and learning rather than beat up and concussed, until they can improve the O-line? Would that be a valid reason to start Webb instead?
To do so we be the equivilent of the vikings front office admitting that they really screwed up in picking Ponder.
The Viking Front Office has made a lot of mistakes in the recent past, why not one more? It’s not like they have a sterling reputation to protect.
Besides, Ponder wouldn’t be the first top round draft pick QB to sit out his first year, learning and getting used to the speed of the game, before stepping in later to kick ass. In fact, that’s the process that at least half the pundits and fans think is the right way to go.
I think Webb can win the starting position. But so can Ponder. Let them guys compete and work it out, we’re really in a good position for future QBs. It’s just a shame that Favre’s ego didn’t let us put together a pair of future hotshots like this, 2 years ago. If they had, at least one of these guys would be ready to rock right now.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
who ever gives us the best future
I’m not worried about next year I’m worried about the long haul. You stated:
1. I’d be really pissed to find out that the FO felt that Webb was the better QB but they started Ponder instead to justify their draft choice. In fact, I’d be calling for their freaking jobs, after removing their heads.
Well I would be irritated if the front office wasted a first round pick if they didn’t think Ponder was a better QB prospect than Webb. Not saying he will be, but if they thought Webb was the better QB then they should have waited tell round 2 or 3 before they grabbed his back up, then we could have grabbed a solid LT in the first or another CB.. :p
Let them both compete for sure because honestly to many players can’t hack the NFL, but if they didn’t think Ponder was their future starter then they have made a serious mistake already.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
So certain are you
No?
Well, I don’t think Frazier & Co are certain either.
I think that’s what Ponder is; insurance in case Webb doesn’t turn out to be the next great Viking QBotF. We saw some great moments out of Webb last year, we also saw some questionable ones. I think Ponder is the best QB bet out of the draft, assuming he can stay healthy. Not a crazy pick, but unlike Chilly, they weren’t going to assume that the late round flier is going to work out.
I know that you, and a lot of others, feel Webb is questionable right from the beginning because he was picked under Chilly’s regime… well, it’s time to let that go. If nothing else, remember that Chilly wasn’t always wrong. When he was right, he was spectacularly right, and Adrian Peterson stands as proof of that today.
Let the guys work it out, and hope for the best. Personally, I’d like to see both of them turn out to be top-ranked QBs.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
I agree I would like both of them to be great as well
But I’m not seeing where Frazier is giving you the idea that they got Ponder as back up for Webb. The coach has basically said he wanted Ponder to start this year which is backwards if he thought Webb was a better prospect.
Now I will admit that Ponder has just as much chance of failure as any other QB out there (including Webb) and if he pulls a leaf, or a Russel then I’m all about tossing him early rather than late and letting Webb take over the controls.
As for Webb being picked up by Childress, you are probably correct that it doesn’t help me liking him as our future QB, but honestly the bigger issue for me is how late he was picked up in the draft.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
Draft position
Has been used by both sides of the argument on this board….
I dont care who starts, as long as theyre good. Fug if Bomar starts I dont care, I just want it to be someone who can make the plays not save the face…
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
exactly...
Besides, Ponder wouldn’t be the first top round draft pick QB to sit out his first year, learning and getting used to the speed of the game, before stepping in later to kick ass.
phillip rivers was drafted #4 overall and SAT for 2 YEARS before getting the call.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
Lessons learned
I think much of the problem goes back to the Brad Childress/T Jac five year nightmare. The concept of a Triangle of Authority is interesting, but if Larry and Moe would have just given Curly the cheese, perhaps he would have come to his senses and it would have dawned on him that Jackson was simply not an NFL caliber starting quarterback.
When Frazier became head coach, in his first interview, he was asked what changes he would be making. The first thing he listed was “get a quarterback”. To hear those words coming from the Vikings coaching staff was like listening to the first coherent sentence coming from someone who had been delirious for an extended period. I did not take Frazier’s statement to mean that Webb had been deemed inadequate, but rather that the Vikings were not going to allow themselves to be handcuffed to another “project” quarterback, no matter how pleased they were with the potential he had displayed.
I also think that when they got deeper into their research on Ponder, Musgrave became more and more convinced that they were looking at someone who had already operated the same offensive scheme that the new staff was implementing with the Vikings, and that Ponder had shown all the tools and skills they were looking for in a quarterback to run that offense. In my opinion, yes - they did envision Ponder as becoming the Vikings starting quarterback. At the same time, however, they were not going to simply anoint him as such, and I believe Frazier when he said there would be an open competition for the starting slot. People made a big deal of Frazier’s interview where he commented on bringing in a veteran because you don’t want to ruin a young player’s confidence. Most assumed that that statement was made in reference to Ponder. If you looked at what Frazier said immediately preceding that, however, you will see that he said the staff had been assessing the situation with their young QUARTERBACKS, plural, which shows that the staff is keeping all options open, which would include Webb and Rhett Bomar. I’m a Ponder fan, but I’ll say that this approach by Frazier and the staff please me to no end.
Having an open competition is just going to bring out the best in our young QBs. Danny mentions Phillip Rivers. If you think back, Drew Brees wasn’t exactly setting the world on fire in San Diego. The Chargers had reached the conclusion that he wasn’t the answer for them at QB, hence the drafting of Rivers. From what I heard, faced with the potential loss of his starting role, Brees became more focused and rededicated himself to the game. He worked harder than he had ever done previously, spending hours more time studying game films, etc. As a result, Drew Brees became … well, Drew Brees, one of the NFL’s elite.
So yeah, let our guys keep working and pushing each other. Nothing but good is going to come out of it.
the drew brees / phillip rivers / doug flutie story is interesting...
i happened to look that up for a fanpost i did a while back. below is a cut-paste from that.
i’m re-posting it just to eat up some more space on the n.s.a. database of everything ever.
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
drew brees:
was the 1st pick of the 2nd round in 2001 (about where ponder was projected to go). and sat on the bench for a year behind a guy with experience. he beat out doug flutie the next year, only to later lose his starting job again to flutie. the team also drafted phillip rivers during his tenure, because they wanted a viable alternate option in case he didn’t hold the spot. he eventually signed as a free agent with the saints, who had a 10 year veteran qb backing him up, not some practice squad guy with zero experience. he did well, but it took him 5 full seasons and 2 teams to become the established star that he is now considered.
phillip rivers:
was the 4th pick of the 1st round of the 2004 draft and the 2nd qb selected. he signed a $40million contract and ended up being the #3 qb in 2004 and the #2 qb in 2005. as it was, he sat for 2 years because he couldn’t beat out the guys in front of him. he took over for drew bress only AFTER brees got injured. luckily for the chargers, they had a decent back-up to take over when their starter went down with injury. then, brees left in free agency, because the chargers only offered him an incentive laden 5 year $50 million contract after his injury. go figure.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
I voted yes
But I think the question should have been worded “Will” not “Can”. In that case then it’s a maybe.
it is interesting
They feel that Ponder is the guy using that kind of draft pick on him. But many feel that training camp and preseason will have no affect on the coaches decision for the first game of the season. Right now I think they are evenly matched. Webb has a year and a win under his belt, possibly more physically talented. Ponder has the pedigree of a pure QB coming out of a top program.
This may not matter if we take on a vet anyway.
it is better to be thought of as dumb then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
Ben Franklin
by montana vikes fan on Jul 20, 2011 11:57 AM CDT reply actions
Couple of things to think about on this
First Childress said he was a good QB I don’t know about you guys but I’m not going all in on Childress’s recommendation on a QB… Second I know he wasn’t TJ or Favre and Vike fans have needed a QB to get behind for years now, but that doesn’t make him good.
He’s a good athlete, and not a horrible QB. But according to his numebers he’s not a solid one either.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
I'm going to say something I won't often say about someone, but...
…I don’t think it’s all that fair to hold Webb to those numbers, because:
a) he had no time to prepare for the Chicago game, a weird Tuesday night game in Philly and then little time to prepare for the last game in Detroit.
b) the coaching staff was in flux
c) the O-line was in complete shambles
d) his receivers dropped ball left and right – including a TD catch by Rice that ended up being overturned on review.
With only two games under his belt, I think his numbers were negatively impacted by some horrible play on the part of his O-line and wide receivers.
Lastly, I agree that Childress isn’t much of a QB guru. That said, I saw Webb play with my own eyes and was impressed with what I saw. I hope I get to see more in the future.
great points. it's no wonder that the football coaches decided to keep him at qb.
grime seems to have it out for webb. i don’t know why, maybe he sees it in “black and white”.
I don't have it out for Webb
Not at all, I just don’t see why people are gushing over him like he’s he next Payton Manning. Seems a bit premature to get that excited about a guy who really hasn’t done much. (be that because of schedule, or whatever) When the voice of moderation sounds like the voice of dissent you might want to think about how hard you’re arguing.
Now saying this I know I am a homer about certain people as well. So I figure it takes one to know one.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
you totally have it out for webb. and without good reason.
i question your motivations. i think your personal views are showing.
Totally Disagree...
I don’t think Joe Webb is the answer… It’s nothing racial either. I’m sure 95% of the people in favor or Christian Ponder are in favor of him because they believe he’s the better QB, not because he’s white.
Taking shots at his “personal views” is just low. That’s not called for around here. You question his motivations? How could his “motivations” possibly affect you or the team? This kinda comes off as ignorant and without knowing grime, extremely uncalled for.
I’m with you Grime, I see Tarvaris Jackson 2.0. Joe Webb does have a stronger arm and quicker feet, but I still don’t think he’ll ever be able to read an NFL defense or have more TD’s than INT’s in this league…
i know him full well, and his criticism of webb is not reasonable.
you opinions may be different. you wrote that brett romar should be ahead of webb because you that he had showed himself to be a better qb than webb, because of his freshman year in college. i disagree with that.
grime has continually argued that webb is an inferior qb because he had 2 mop up starts in the nfl, and that his statistics prove him to not be capable of playing qb. that is just a bad argument all together.
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
SO..
Youre playing the race card against Grime because he doesnt like Webb?
What the farkle is that about?
Can we leave politics off the boards, kkthx.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
And your point?
Its HIS argument…calling him a RACIST over it is so far out of line.
I dont get what point you are trying to make doing that.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
don't make up words. you are making strawman srguments.
and that is also totally uncool.
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
whatever floats your boat
But your argument isnt any more valid then his.
Thats black & white.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
we can have 2 good quarterbacks, eh?
why does one guy get thrown under the bus by fans for being good?
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
What in the name of farkle are you talking about?
I think you have confused yourself, gratz!
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
and i didn't say anything political.
but some topic creep in sideways, and they are totally uncool.
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
funny you pick out one of my arguments, and ignore the rest but then I kind of expect this from you now
I also brought up his collegiate career amongst other things, rarely do I get into pissing matches with other people on this sight as in the end we are all fundamentally Viking fans, however you seem to thrive on abrasiveness. By the way I have stated many times I do not think Web was the answer and have discussed it with many different people and you are the only one who has taken it to a personal level with me.
Go argue with someone else for a while I’m bored of you.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
webb did extremely well, given his opportunities and the supporting cast.
Go argue with someone else for a while I’m bored of you.
then hopefully you will stop trolling.
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm not exactly sure where your animosity to me comes from Danny.
Seriously, did I do something to you when you were on another account that I don’t know about? Are you the return of Gothic Purple? Maybe we can sit down and discuss this? As this isn’t the first time this has happened.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
Do you even know what a troll is?
Also, this entire about 18+ replies started from a Grime post…if anyone is trolling comments, its you.
Im gunna let you go for the hat trick and say gratz!
Im done with you today too. I have no idea what kinda burr you have up ya bum, but its rather sad at this point.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
Send me an email if you have an issue with me I'm done with you on this site.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
and you say you don't do personal attacks tsk tsk.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
are you attempting some strawman yourself, grime?
it’s a good thing that you are not a football coach, because good players wouldn’t get a chance to play because of you. i’m glad that you aren’t calling the shots for joe webb.
keep trying to make up words for other people and speaking sideways, grime.
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
ARe you trying to coin your own online phrase?
Strawman? Or are you calling him a Baseball player?
Grime are you doing lines of coke on the side?!?!?!
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
no, it's just a lame tactic that people use.
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Youre right
You are acting LAME, quit it.
GO play in the corner with your toys kid.
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
OK Here we go again
Again, people coming in and acting like they can start bad mouthing and acting like jerks cause they did it on other sites. I AM GOING TO REPEAT -We don’t do things that way here. And yes, I do have a right to protect “This House” as I have been here since the code of conduct was made.
If you want to banter go someplace else. The rest of us want to talk as frieds and with respect/
Otherwise don’t let the door hit you ass as youl leave.
This is why we have to keep restating our ground rule As for Grime he has been good at following them but I don’t blame him for getting upset when this stuff creeps up every year!
Knock it off or get off this site..
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions
No I have been at this table a long time -so relax and stop bantering
We all have long term frienships and respect. No reason to get uptight with someone. We can have a good time. You seem to have enough intelligent things ot share. We all differ but let’s not go overboard.
We hada good crossing of opinions below. But, it never got heated.
It’s not worth it if we are all on the same team in the end..
Let’s just not have a repeat of last season and I am confident there will be some fun times and a different look in this team. Should be fun whoever plays QB .
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions
i understand your points, i meant late to the table of this convo.
it goes beyond this fanpost, and grime knows his actions.
kluwe, you are my guitar hero !!!
Whatever
I have been on break but whatever is going on I hope you guys can get over it and be comrads.
Grime knows I have lovedwatching Webb since I reported on him from camp last season. he was always cool about it.
I like Joe. He is a good kid and I always hope for good things to happen to good people. So i want him to prove his critics wrong.But, you can bet there will be a QB battle-Vet signee or not
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions
notthing wrong with having a couple of good qb prospects
in the stable. and to compare webb to t-jax is ludicrous, imo. i’m impressed with both ponder and webb, and they have shown great attitudes so far. i can only think that they will help each other to become better players, and the guy holding the clip board will do al that he can to help the starter succeed. i’m actually pretty pleased with that position right now, they just need time and development.
kluwe, you are my guitar hero !!!
Absolutely
There is no comparison. When I reported to the guys last year, I wrote that there was a rawness in Webb but also a “no fear” look in his eyes. I pointed this out to my budy as I said “watch this kid” he knows it is paractice and doesn’t fear mistakes. He threaded the neele twice under coverage" (One was a nice catch by harvin and the other a rookie concentration mistake by Small) but both throws were in tight coverage and right there!
Then comes our beloved T- Jax ( now I am isabled and get the best view a fan can get) Jas’s eyes focus one way and when the guy is not open you couldliterally see the panic in his eyes. "OMG I goota find my 2 option! Heaven forbid the 3rd!) Now a 3rd option QB is a tough job but an NFLer MUSY know it! I had a kid in HS where I coache who was being taught that. We had lots of former pro coaches and to hear how it is done is amazing.But by the time you hit a big time college program you must have it in your head. T-Jax never did. That was his problem. Webb was hitting his 2nd option with no loss ofpoise. I think Ponder has the same qualities but like Webb will have to afjust to the spee of the D’s. One thing Ponder is under-rated on is his ability to scramble so it shoudl be an interesting study of which has it down best. Rememberingthat Ponder had good stats but his O-line was not one of FSU all time best. So throwing to the 3rd option was a rarity for him. But, if he knows it better that Webb. That could be his ace in the hole. Should be fun.
Then again Bomer might sneak up. Unlikely but the kid has a rocket of an arm. Does he have the NFL ability to go with it. May have been a different story had he not been booted from Okla ( I think Okla) Brain fart but it was a big school.
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 11:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry-night time med typos setting in :-)
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
you mentioned ponder's scrambling/mobility...
one thing i really like is that BOTH ponder and webb seem to be mobile scramblers and good athletes. i think this will go a long way in helping this team for a number of reasons.
one is that they can each extend the play and avoid sacks behind our questionable pass protection.
second is that it will allow the o-coordinator to call plays with a moving pocket, play action and designed roll-outs, which should help mix it up and give the qb’s a fighting chance.
and third is that…if we change qb’s for whatever reason between ponder and webb, i think that the game plan and play sets won’t really need to change much. it seems like they have similar enough mobility, skill sets and experience. i think this will actually be a huge advantage for the coordinator and coaches.
of course, that could all be wrong, but that’s the impression i get from the 2 of them. and, i think bomar has mobility too, no?
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
You have it out for Webb and your stalking him and slashing his tires while he sleeps!
No wonder his numbers are mediocre.
I have been vocal in support of Webb, but I agree that he looked lost at times. Still, his composure never faltered, and I wanted us to take Amukamara and give Webb a shot. At this point I don’t think Webb can beat out Ponder for the spot, but he will make for a great change of pace at #2.
Devil's avocate here Jshore
I really liked Webb after I saw him in camp last year. Sure he get’s a little lost. he’s a tookie. but when I saw the eyes that kid had as compared to T-jax I was convinced he just needed the learning curve to learn. He reminded me of a young Favre. he stood there and rocketed shots through the eye of a needle. Jax looked totally fearful for a guy with game experience, and that was just practice.
So I do agree with lloyd on one thing. Do we judge a career by 2 starts. If so a lot of current starters would be in the UFL right now.
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
PS
See comment below.
Now does that mean I hate ponder? Nope. I think he hassome good qualities in a potential NFL starter.
With BF gone. We are dealing with 3 guys with potential til FA breaks open. That’ll be a laugh when all the RFA rich wanna be’s find out the market is too thick with players
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Sarcasm thanks!
I don’t actually have it out for Webb, and with his speed not sure if he needs a car… Webb did look good at times last year, but I would say there is a reason we picked up Ponder in the first and Webb much later, and that reason probably isn’t that Webb has a better collegiate history at QB.
Personally, I don’t care who’s the QB for the Vikes I just want one that’s home grown so we can map our team around him instead of trying to find a new QB every two years and map them to our system.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
I hope he does
It would give opposing defenses more to handle and hopefully bring our offense to the same level as our defense. I want what’s best for the team, be that Ponder or Webb. Make no mistake, Webb is our #1 QB and Ponder’s trying to take it from him. If the season starts and there is no preseason and no camps, Webb will start because he’s already our #1 QB. The same goes for Cam Newton, if the season starts and he hasn’t had the opportunity to Prove himself, he won’t start. And he was drafted 1st overall. I hate it when people say “you don’t draft a guy 12th overall to put him on the bench”.
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on - Winston Churchill
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jul 20, 2011 1:27 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
No. Not happening...
They built this team around Ponder’s speciality, the short passing game. Shiancoe and Rudolph at TE are perfect weapons for a pass-first QB, they don’t stretch the field too much but they provide a reliable means of moving the chains. Joe Webb would succeed most in an offense that lets him get out of the pocket and use his speed, and that won’t happen with 2 TE’s on the field.
Ponder is very accuate on short passes and timing routes, which Bill Musgrave uses as much as anybody, and I expect him to use them even more with players like Percy Harvin, Kyle Rudolph, Visanthe Shiancoe, and Greg Camarillo at his disposal. All have good to great hands and great body control. Joe Webb would succeed most in an offense where he can air out the deep ball, think Dante Culpepper or Jeff George with Webb’s running ability. We have the weapons to effectively move the ball down the field, slowly but surely, with a great RB, a good decision-making QB, and speed/size at the skill positions. We may be facing 8 in the box this year a lot, and I’d much rather have Ponder’s accuracy and decision making that Webb’s big arm and running ability. You see what I mean?
Ponder fits this scheme, not to mention Bill Musgrave and Leslie Frazier HAND-PICKED Christian. They wanted him, bad, or they would have traded down or taken Prince Amukumura or Nick Fairly, and worried about trading up for Ponder in the 15-25 area. They wanted him, and they will roll with him. They have built a team to help him succeed, and I expect us to continue to build around Christian Ponder when FA starts. So a simple answer is no, Ponder is our starting QB this season.
To be more specific-
We will probably be facing 8 in the box this year. It’s that simple. Mike Vick, the best athlete at the QB position ever, can’t beat 8 men in the box. To beat this, we need to get the ball out to Percy, Visanthe, and Rice(hopefully) with consistant completions and YAC. Lucky for us, Percy is the best YAC WR in the league (opinion). This team is set up for Christian. Webb is a nice prospect, and he could develop into a nice QB, but I think we have our QBOTF, so we might as well start working him into “Wildcat” formation or split out wide to get him on the field. I see Webb as a guy that’s too valuable to keep on the bench, but he’s not our future QB; we chose to go another route. We should do everything we can to help him succeed at another positon, while remaining our back-up QB as well.
by mak07 on Jul 20, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Play the best guy whoever that needs up being
Both Webb and Ponder are young enough to be worth investing in. Whoever plays best in pre-season ought to get the start during the season.
^^^THIS
I said maybe, because we haven’t seen enough from Webb to decide whether he could be the man. We’ve seen some good things, we’ve seen some rookie things.
Unfortunately, in the NFL, money talks, and Ponder will be making more than Webb, and nobody wants to spend that money and bench the player…
Ideally, as fans of the game, we all want the best player, playing, no matter how much he is getting paid.
The front office doesn’t usually see it that way.
We will see Ponder make rookie mistakes, I guarantee it. I just hope that Webb gets a look.
May the best man win!
I really believe
.
You will see Joe get the starting nod. if by some stroke of luck he learned more than we think by his short experience, it could be a exciting thing.
So I feel he will get the start. If Joe starts and turns into T-jax, leslie will NOT pull a Chilly and hang with him. he will put Ponder in to give him his knocks. It may be a see-saw but by game 5 we will know.
Joe pulls a miracle or Ponder will step in – rookie QB curse be danged. Ponder wil be given the job.
I might not be shocke dto see Joe pull off some early wins. He will have some faulters and maybe regroup himself. If not. Get ready for the Ponder era to start early.
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 20, 2011 10:12 PM CDT reply actions
i think the vikes are going to snag a vet to start the season.
at least that is what i would prefer. i hope that neither webb or ponder get thrown in to start the year after this whole lock out thing. i think their long term potential/success will be better off avoiding this bottleneck in the short term. we are only 6-7 weeks away from the opener, and we are still in lockout mode. i like your sig line!
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Always a possibility
Just saying a high priced “teacher” is a waste of cap $. Now a fair priced vet that can play.
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed, i say get a discounted disposable model for the short term....who doesn't suck!
kluwe, you are my guitar hero !!!
If you are going to buy a teacher
then don’t break the bank. I just don’t see them bringing a high price QB in again just to tell these young guys to sit and learn.
I’m not high on McNabb but my understanding is if they release him, they owe him, So maybe he would fit in at a lower rate than BF. I just don’t see it happening. I would have liked to seen Orton. But, the price will be too high.
I think they’ll go with what they have and dicker later if need be for a QB-if needed I see Frasier pulling a Raheem Morris and build from youth.
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
danny =any CBA updates?
Don’t froget guys we have a prize league again. Weekly pot , league best record pot and of course playoff pot. Think we came up with 33.00 entry fee.
Write if ya want in and you’ll get the lowdown
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions
i'm confused, you said "pot" like 3 times. is this like a medical "pot" club?
i’m kidding, of course. thanks, i’ll think about it!
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Jul 21, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
When was the last time.....
the Vikings had the makings of this level of QB competition? I can’t recall.
I have said since last season ended that Webb has earned the right to compete for the job, regardless of who the Vikings trade for, draft, or otherwise bring in. With very little chance to prepare, he stepped in and showed leadership qualities that are rare for a man his age. The freakish physical ability is obvious. He is also showing a commitment to work at the craft and to heed the wisdom of others (see Favre).
It is UNFAIR and INCONCLUSIVE to judge his worthiness to play the position based on NUMBERS. I have posted Tom Brady’s numbers his first two seasons, the second of which he started most of his team’s games. They are UNREMARKABLE at best.
Both Webb and Ponder WILL push each other to be the best that they can be. There will not be a downside to the competition, other than one of them will be disappointed. Of course, as of today, no veteran third option has been brought in, which would change the dynamic, but, not by much, IMHO.
Just one more point.
As surprised as I am by the negativity towards Webb based on games that I thought were pretty good for a rookie under pretty much the worst conditions imaginable, I think I’m even more surprised that so many people are so confident that Ponder’s “got game.” He’s never played a snap in the NFL. He may be awesome. He may suck. We won’t know until he shows up and plays his downs against a NFL defense. My guess is that he’ll be middle of the road for awhile, but who knows? Joe Webb set the bar — and a decent one at that. We’ll see who tops it. If I had to put money down and pick just one player, I’d say it’s Joe Webb that beats Joe Webb from last year. That said, I hope they both do.
It's all because of Tjack.
Tjack has left a sour taste in our mouth, so nobody seems to want to give a mobile QB with a strong arm a chance.
I will say this… I think Tjack is going to the Seahawks, and I think he is going to start and play well at some point. Bevell’s offense without the meddling from Col. Klink, and running a scheme that favors the roll-outs? I think he could do well.
by Bjorno on Jul 23, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ya also need to remeber that Joe-
comes into a game at TCF. Does he wear gloves, have a towel tucke away? This is a kid who lived in the South and playe in the South. My son is practicing in heat right now that is unbelievable. So did Joe.
So Joe comes into a snow filled TCF like he oesn’t have a care. Good lesson for the kid next time he plays in such conditions. Could you really expect him to have a 80 per cent passer rating that game.
Then he manages a Philly beating that was the years highlight game.
Joe is for real . don’t count him out of this race yet!
AKA : Revenge4Webb
by CitrusFLViking on Jul 21, 2011 11:17 PM CDT reply actions
He was the 3rd string QB in that game
…probably hadn’t had a snap at practice all week (or all season for that matter). He’s lucky he even had his helmet on the sidelines. I’m sure noone thought to pack him some playing gloves.
And you are right. I think Joe is the real deal. Awesome? Not yet, but maybe some day. Let’s hope.
I wouldnt mind seeing Webb start the first game. Just to go ahead and see if he’s the right one or not. Maybe the first few games. This season’s probably lost anyway
by vikesfan4lyf on Jul 22, 2011 9:48 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Considering they appear to be abolishing the 3rd QB rule...
We may see both on the field this year. That gives us a lot of flexibility on how we arrange our QB setup.
interesting, where did you hear this?
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
by danny lloyd on Jul 23, 2011 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Joe
is still imo lacking the polish in the passing game that Ponder got while in college….its a new system and staff so he is much like a rookie as well…He has some great upside but I feel he could really shine with 1 more year under his belt…and am very glad we have him just in case.
by vikefan1969 on Jul 25, 2011 7:54 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Basically, this question has become null
The answer is: No; because Webb will be utilized as a WR.
well, ponder is going to make a hell of a punt returner....no fair catches for that guy!
i can’t wait, he’s gonna do awesome on special teams. i mean, why waste his enthusiasm and good attitude as a back up qb? i think he could push for starting safety too. he is a team player, right?
@warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
Punter returner?
I thought he was going to be Kluwe’s back up??
Havent you seen his feet!!!!
**Rupert for ProBowl 2012!**
LOLOLOL!!!
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Webb has done more to prove himself as an NFL QB
Than Frazier has done to prove himself as an NFL HC.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
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