Vikings At Seahawks: Pre-Season Report Card, Week 2
by Ted Glover on Aug 21, 2011 7:00 AM CDT
in Minnesota Vikings 2011 Season
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PrintFolks, I have to tell you something. Lean in, because I don't want a lot of people to know. Come on, squeeze in here.
/looks around
/looks around again
I'm a hypocrite. There, I said it.
I say over and over not to get too excited about a pre-season game...and I got excited over this pre-season game.
I know, I know, pre-season is meaningless, and has almost zero bearing on the regular season. Kyle mentioned yesterday about the Colts winless pre-season when they went to the Super Bowl, and Detroit's undefeated pre-season before they went 0-16. All we have to do is look back at 2005 from our own Vikings to know this leasson: Daunte Culpepper proclaimed himself a quarterback 'Jedi', and the offense post Randy Moss looked downright scary during the pre-season, and the defense was suffocating.
Yeah. Three thrashings, a Love Boat trip, and a shattered Culpepper knee later, that was all pretty much out the window. Still, when you see such a difference between key players from week one to weeks two, in some ways it's hard not to get excited.
There's a lot to talk about, and we're sticking with the Elementary School grades from last week, after the jump.
Quarterback: S...Satisfactory. If I was just grading the play of McNabb, it would have been an S+. McNabb was particularly sharp, and save for one sack where Charlie Johnson just blew an assignment and the Vikes went three and out, he was in rhythm the whole time he was in. He made quick reads, good throws, and didn't have any mistakes. He had a particularly nice drive that started on the Vikings two, and eventually resulted in a field goal. He spread the ball around and the offense really looked sharp. The backup job between Ponder and Webb is still murky for me. I thought Webb played better with the 2's last week than Ponder did this week, but Ponder wasn't terrible. He seems tentative to throw the ball downfield, though, but I'm more and more impressed with his mobility. Webb isn't afraid to throw downfield, but he didn't seem particularly accurate with his deep ball. They both seemed comfortable, for the most part, but now I have to give the edge to Webb. He didn't necessarily progress, but he didn't regress, either. And I think Ponder did a little bit.
Running Backs: S+...Satisfactory plus. Adrian Peterson only had a few carries, which is all he should have in a pre-season game, so the onus was on Toby Gerhart, Lorenzo Booker, and Tristan Davis, and they all played well. Booker looked particularly good in space; I can't recall the first defender going after him making a tackle, and Davis had an exciting 35 yard run for the clinching TD, which was his only carry of the night. Gerhart did a much better job of hitting the hole, and showed some power on a couple runs.
WR: S...Satisfactory. We saw our first Michael Jenkins catch, and it was a nice 21 yarder from McNabb. With Greg Camarillo out, Devin Aromashodu had an opportunity, and he made the most of it, grabbing two balls for 30 yards, and stood out on special teams and downfield blocking for run support. Joaquin Iglesias also had a couple of good catches, and this unit is starting to give off the vibe that they're going to make some good plays, but they're not going to be game breakers, and as long as they're consistent, I can live with that. Emmanuel Arcenaux might have sealed his fate tonight by fumbling the ball through the end zone as he was going in for a score, which resulted in a touchback for Seattle.
TE: S+...Satisfactory plus. Kyle Rudolph continues to impress, and awesome Jim Kleinsasser is still awesome. Rudolph made a nice catch on third down deep in his own end early in the game, and had three total, leading the team. Kleinsasser had the play of the day for me, grabbing a short swing pass and leaving 23 yards of death and destruction in his wake. And the couple of times I looked at him on the line, he was his solid self.
OL: I...Improving. I don't think Vikings fans are asking for five All-Pros on the offensive line. I mean, we'd take it, don't get me wrong, but I think we'd all be happy with league average at this point. And that's what we saw, for the most part. I spent most of my time watching Charlie Johnson, and save for a blown assignment on the first drive, he handled his opponent pretty well. He isn't going to overpower anyone, but he did a good job of using the defender's momentum against him, continually pushing him upfield and out of the play. As for the rest of the line, couple of breakdowns, but not bad. Phil Loadholt has his obligatory penalty, but he seemed to improve a lot between the first and second games.
DL: S...Satisfactory. Much better job against the run this week than last, and Seahawks problem quarterback Tarvaris Jackson was under pressure from all sides all night. Now, could some of that have been because it was our old friend Tarvaris Jackson? Sure. And when the pocket collapsed, which happened frequently, Jackson usually made plays with his legs. Jared Allen whiffed on a sure sack of TJ, and Brian Robison had trouble on contain to his side on more than one occasion, but overall, not a bad outing.
LB: S...Satisfactory. I'm actually pretty happy with the starters and the back ups at this point. Erin Henderson seems a lock for the Will, and made a couple of big hits. Not really sure how the depth will sort itself out, and Ross Homan didn't do himself any favors with a stupid late hit penalty, but folks, if we're talking about a penalty that a potential reserve guy made as the most serious of their transgressions, then I think we should feel pretty good about this unit, no?
DB: I...Improving. Cedric Griffin started, and his presence was immediate, as he broke up a nice slant pass the first series. A healthy Griffin means this secondary is a lot better. Chris Cook looked much better on Saturday, and had particularly good coverage on Sidney Rice a couple of times. But easily the player of the game was CB Marcus Sherels. He had a nice punt return, which he fumbled. But he made up for it by...wait for it, because you're not going to believe it...wait for it...hold...INTERCEPTING a pass AND returning it for a tocuhdown. Yes, that's right. The Vikings secondary picked off a pass! And I'll tell you, when Sherels hit the afterburner, he was gone. Really quick acceleration. But he also had a couple of nice open field tackles, made his presence known on special teams, and just had an all around solid game. At minimum, he pulled even with Asher Allen, if not pulled ahead.
COACHING: Didn't really grade this last week, but I think it should be noted that our two new coordinators are very different than our old ones. Leslie Frazier was a very good defensive coordinator, but he was content to sit back in a cover-2 scheme, and believed the defensive line should force most of the pressure. And when he had a talented line like he did for most of his tenure, that was a solid strategy. Fred Pagac seems a lot more aggressive in that regard, and it will be interesting to see if that holds true as the season progresses.
Here's Bill Musgrave in a nutshell. 1st quarter, Vikes have the ball on their own two after a goal line stand. !st and 10, McNabb lines up in the freakin' shotgun on both first and second down, completes two passes, the second one to Kyle Rudolph for a good 15 yards, first down, Vikes out of trouble and have some breathing room. I'm sorry, but you can talk to me until you're purple in the face and tell me Chilly would've done that on first and second down, and I will never, ever believe you.
So yeah, it's not the regular season, but there are a lot of positives to take away from this game. I think the consensus is we wanted to see improvement in all areas as the pre-season progresses, and I think it's fair to say we saw that. Both the offensive and defensive lines got better, the secondary looked downright competent at times, and some younger players made a case to stick around.
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Thank God.....
Tarvaris Jackson is their Qb and not ours !!! I think Ponder would outplay him RIGHT NOW !!
I wasn't impressed by the team,
but I was encouraged. Pre-Season Week 1 left a bad taste in my mouth, mainly because the O-Line was pathetic. This week, I don’t know if they were really better, or if McNabb and the receivers/backs played quicker.
The announcers kept bragging about the defensive goal line stand on the Vikings 2 yard line, saying how the run blocking was great. Well, considering the continuous 8-15 yard runs that got the Seahawks down to the 2 yard line in the first place, I would argue that the Vikings D-Line needs a lot of work. There is no reason why any running back on the Seahawks should rack up more single play yards than AP. And the reason they did was simply their O-Line did it’s job blocking and creating holes while our O-Line looked about as stout as a light beer.
That was our second string D-line
by Coolio12 on Aug 21, 2011 10:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm not seeing
what everyone else is from the QB. Mcnabb did the same thing TJ did. He dinked and dunked. the one pass to Jenkins was the only one that could be considered deep. and still the starting offense didn’t score any points. dinking and dunking will not win you games. a competant defense will stop those plays. I admit i’m not a mcnabb fan so maybe i’m being harsh but I hope this is just a result of not wanting to show much in the preseason.
on the flip side, i thought the defense looked good. they stopped the run and shut down the WR’s. I like to see them build on this next week.
Speaking of TJ
Lawyer MIlloy (former Seahawk but wasn’t re-signed) tweeted he thinks WHitehurst should start, caused a minor poopstorm out west.
Heh.
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
wow, after 2 preseason games
someone is calling for the backup. can’t say that I blame Milloy. TJ looked aweful. I think sidney is going to regret going to seattle. at least mcnabb completed the dink and dunk passes which is more then TJ did.
I'm not arguing TJ is a competent NFL QB
But he had literally 2 seconds before he was on the run on every play. Also the interception he threw was tipped off Golden Tates hands. That was completely the wideouts fault. Any educated football fan would see that Jackson actually played better than Whitehurst. All Whitehurst did was toss 3 yard passes and watch his teammates run, thus the shiny completion percentage.
by Coolio12 on Aug 21, 2011 10:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
the ball was thrown behind the receiver...
watch it again.
I BELIEVE...
by ArizonaVikingsFan on Aug 22, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Whitehurst takes the job,
unless Pete Carrol just refuses to admit the obvious. I thought Whitehurst really stepped-up at the end of last season and performed well. Watching them in the playoffs I was a bit curious as to why it was such a given that he was not going to be the guy for them… he looked good. He has picked up where he left off and is easily far superior to TJ.
Pete carrol
Whitehurst is good,pete carrol won’t say anything after making jackson starter and telling storyline vikings jerking jackson around.now you see why jackson was not starting for the vikings.all thus backfire in pete carrols face.
I'm also hoping this is a preseason thing.
The other possibility is that only a fraction of the offense has been installed. Still, watching training camp video I saw quite a bit of down-field action involving WR’s, TE’s and RB’s, so I think they’re just working on other stuff so far.
Its hard to hold the dinking and dunking against him though
when the guys go and get 20 yards gains. Obviously that was the proper decision if a short pass like that gains such big yardage. But I think you’re forgetting that first pass to Rudolph in your assessment. That wasn’t a dunk by any means. McNabb took what the defense gave him and didn’t really force anything, which is what I want to see from our QB this year.
Its not as if he played like Ponder who was constantly forcing the pass to the checkdown no matter if they were well covered or not. I wasn’t too impressed with him tonight, at all. His drives were aided by stupid Seattle penalties. If the ‘Hawks played with more discipline, Ponder’s drives all would have stalled. His accuracy and decisions left me shaking my head for the most part. But he’s got time to learn and it just shows how wise it was to grab McNabb.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Aug 21, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Get used to dink and dunk
Pelissero basically came out and said that’s the plan.
Bad o-line and no deep threats = lots of rushing and short passing. I think it’s more fair to grade them not for how deep they push the passing game, but for how accurate McNabb can be and how quickly he gets rid of the ball.
Pray for an awesome class of O-linemen in the next draft
by rovibe on Aug 21, 2011 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
if that's the plan
it won’t work. if the vikes dont’ throw deep once in awhile, defenses are going to stop the short pass. defenses stopped it last season and they will again this season. you can’t win with dinking and dunking. can’t score enough points.
I had to rec Rovibe on his prayer as I will join him
What will be difficult is when teams start to take away the short stuff and load the box and DARE the Vikings to beat them deep
But in next year’s draft a LEFT TACKLE should be at the TOP of the list!
If any other position is needed as well (safety, linebacker, wide receiver) then that position should have a better chance to be shored up via free agency!
McNabb actually completed the passes...
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
Great summary
I like your point about the coaches. Musgrave is a significant upgrade over last year and so is Frazier. Key to success in the NFL is win and improve. I think the offense will be much less predictable and harder to stop. I loved old #4 but he could not run away from even the slowest lineman last year with that bad ankle. It wasn’t all the o-line, it was that teams we reding off on us because of an immobile QB.
Yes, it was the Seahawks, yes we gave up some big runs, but we improved. If we keep improving, adding in our veterans who are still largely not playing, we can be a very good football team.
I’m excited too!
by Vikefandc on Aug 21, 2011 8:51 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
last year just wasn't
about an immobile QB. Favre was immobile the year before too. WR playing out of position and not getting any separation, oline, 3rd down back or TE couldn’t pick up the blitz. this season, the WR’s and the TE look comfortable and are getting separation, booker is a decent blocking RB and is picking up the blitz. Mcnabb is completing the high percentage passes, hopefully he will complete the down the field ones too.
Last year
was more about interceptions. WRs not batting the ball down if they weren’t going to battle for it, lots of tipped passes that led to turnovers. I’m assuming that’s why Favre didn’t like Berrian, because the guy only goes for the ball if he’s open. If he’s got to scrum for it, he doesn’t really do much to put himself in a position to succeed.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Aug 21, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Plus the entire team
pretty much just gave up on Chilly and from that point on we were screwed anyway.
One thing I loved about the offensive play calling
End of the first half, less than a minute to go, Vikings with the lead – The Vikings actually tried to move the ball for another score before half.
How many times in the past 5+ years would they have just sat on the ball and let the clock run out, content with the score? Loved seeing them trying to force the issue againt the opponent for once.
...Same 'ol, same 'ol.
Did you notice Seattle’s play calling on the 2-yd line. Remind anyone of last year’s Bevelle led Vikings?
by jimuellenbach on Aug 21, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Rudolph, C. Johnson and Webb.
Okay. I didn’t see most of the 1st half because of a scheduling screw up on NFL Network. I’ll see it Tuesday night. However, based on 1st half replays and the second half, I’m kind of concerned about Rudolph. No doubt that the guy can catch, but he looked horrible in blocking situations. On one play I saw him whiff on two guys. They were bad misses. I’d read earlier that the coaches are worried about his blocking.
Also on the first offensive play of the game (one I saw on a replay), it looked like there was a TE lined up on the line to the left of Johnson. The TE released without blocking and Johnson turned to his right. Not sure who had what responsibility on that play, but it wasn’t that Johnson was overpowered. Hopefully that’ll get cleaned up by the end of preseason.
I liked what I saw of Webb. He overthrew a couple of people on deeper routes. In one case, Jaymar Johnson appeared to slow down at the point at which Webb would have been releasing the ball. Johnson then picked it up and went full speed but didn’t get to the ball. On another long throw, the receiver was well covered, so maybe Webb put it where only his receiver could have had a chance to get it. I don’t know. One thing is clear though. Webb can’t cut a break. He has a great drive, throws the ball to a receiver who is headed in for a TD and sure enough, the receiver fumbles it (like Sidney Rice last year). At the end of pre-season, people will be complaining about Webb’s lack of TD passes. Poor guy.
I wish I’d seen Griffin and Cook.
it's not unusual
for a rookie TE not to be able to block. they don’t do it in college. Kleinsausser is a great blocker but unfortunately, shaince also doesn’t block well. hopefully Shaincoe will be better at it this season or it will be up to the RB to pick up the blitz.
Yeah, I'm expecting some improvement from Rudolph
But what surprised me is that he completely whiffed on two guys. I think the normal problems are holding onto blocks or moving a player in a certain direction. Rudolph looks like he’s got a lot of ground to make up to get to the point where it’s just an issue of holding his blocks. He makes Shank look like a blocking specialist.
It was a blown assignment, but it could've been an either/or
Either Rudolph didn’t stay home and chip the end, or Johnson mistakenly blocked down on the guard. If you look at the video, both guys executed what they thought were their correct assignment without hesitation. Rudolph took off on a seam pattern, and Johnson didn’t even bother looking at the end.
One of those guys screwed up, we just don’t know who.
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
Fifan
Agree with you. Lots of factors to last year. But teams saw how to beat us and we never improved on blitz pick up or protection schemes. We improved more in the last week than we did all of last year
by Vikefandc on Aug 21, 2011 9:28 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
commpletely agree with you.
the coaches last year just didn’t adjust or help the players improve. I put the WR play squarely on the shoulders of the coaches last year. knowing Rice was hurt in June, no excuse for the others not to be able to play that position. Same with the blitz pickup by the RB. theyknew TAylor was gone should have been able to have a back able to protect. the new coaches have a refreshing attitude. they actually plan with the player strengths in mind. alot more teaching this year too so the players can get better.
I thought the D-line...
…when Whitehurst was in looked like crap. I didn’t see much if any pressure, and they were getting pushed back on run plays.
That was disappointing, but overall the game was good.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 21, 2011 9:35 AM CDT reply actions
If lack of pressure from our 2nd and 3rd
team d-line is the only concerning part to you, I’ll take that as a good game :)
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 21, 2011 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, to be honest...
… I didn’t see much of the first team defense yet. So I don’t know. Where I am living in Florida, I couldn’t see the beginning of the game live, and I’ll have to wait until it is rebroadcast.
But yeah I agree, it isn’t too much of a disaster if the 2nd team d-line was terrible. But, then you’ve got to wonder about our depth. When Ray and Pat were there, I thought our depth was good. Perhaps we can replace those guys and still be a good d-line, but what if someone gets hurt? Depth still matters.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2011 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
Consistency
Hey Ted, one of the coutry’s most famous jurists once wrote, “Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.”
Besides, I don’t see much hypocrisy here. You just need some PR guy or lawyer to put a “spin” on the statements you made in Iowa vesus those you made in NH to make them “perfectly consistent.”
Who wins or loses a preseason game does not matter, and there is no reason to get “excited” about a win or down about a loss. True enough, and not subject to genuine dispute.
BUT, there are aspects of the performance in a preseason game that can give cause for excitement, and you have nailed several of them in your posts. Most important, on the excitement contiunuum, is performance that shows improvement — ESPECIALLY this year with the lockout and shortened training camp — whether it be a player’s execution of things we didn’t realize he could do or had serious doubts about (eg, Sherels’ skill and speed in reacting to the tipped ball and taking it to the house, being around the ball all nght, Charlie Johnson finding away to be somewhat effective, Griffin returning from the IR) or a coach’s creativity in calling plays or defensive scheme’s, or a player who looked terrible before showing us something that suggests that maybe he (unlike TJ, for eg) can get significantly better with practice and playing time (eg, Cook, Gerhart).
It is never bad to get excited — passion is the point of life. Find it wherever you can, even in pre-season!
TiggerSr
Can anyone tell me how Burton (CB) did last night as well as our 1st half safety play (and who played)?
I didn’t get to see that part of the game.
Burton looks good, he did get injured but it was minor.
With the camp Burton has been having and his play on the field, he may be our dime CB ahead of Asher or Sherels. TJohnson and Abdullah started, Abdullah has been good, and to my surprise Johnson did alright; he made two good tackles by taking the right angles and finishing. Raymond got in and dropped an INT in the endzone, and he missed one tackle but he did make a few plays. It was Raymonds first game so let’s see how he does next week. The battle for starting safety opposite Abdullah looks like a three way tie right now.
I actually liked what I saw from Ponder
He showed nice mobility and some good accuracy. Let’s not be worried about him throwing downfield just yet because our best vertical threats didn’t play. His completion to Aromashodu was beautiful.
by Coolio12 on Aug 21, 2011 10:34 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
As did I
he’s still raw and has a ways to go, but I think that he’s got all the tools to do well.
I'm still a Minnesotan at heart...
by urluckyday on Aug 21, 2011 11:38 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
His accuracy was up and down
I noticed a couple passes thrown near recievers’ feet and he threw that horrible pop-up to Aromashodu on the sideline that, if the defender had turned around to locate the ball, could easily have been picked off. He did start out 1-4, and only got to 6-12 by continually dumping off for a couple yards.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Aug 21, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
then we should just dump his ass now, maybe we could use his athleticism as the holder ;).
just kidding, of course….but maybe he has a little ways to go yet?
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
Naw - Just dump him now and cut our losses
He’s had a whole month in the NFL now, and played over a half of football. If that’s the best he can do, I say get rid of him.
Judging by some of the comments from Seahawks fans today, they’d be glad to have him. In fact, from what some of them have written, they’d even give us Rice back … provided we agree to take T-Jac as well. :)
Always nice to see someone pick up your old junk
and think it’s brand new.
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
The bloom came off that rose rather quickly
The Seahawks fans were expressing some real buyer’s remorse on their site. Actually, some of the things they were saying in their comments virtually echoed what Vikings fans have been saying about T-Jac for years. I suppose I feel some sympathy for them for the misery they’re about to endure, especially if Pete Carroll is as stubborn as Childress was in refusing to recognize and admit that the T-Jac experiment was a colossal failure.
Be that as it may, I’ll enjoy watching Carroll twisting in the wind after his out-spoken support of Jackson. I understand Danny Lloyd’s belief that Carroll needed to try to show his new quarterback that he had Carroll’s full support, but Carroll’s shots at the Vikings’ front office and how they “jerked Jackson around” were uncalled for. I’m just waiting for Carroll’s press conference when he announces that he’s moving Whitehurst up to their first string.
He's got a long way to go
Guess he wasn’t as pro-ready as the analysts expected. Really though I think we should just convert him to WR if he fails the QB competition. Look at his measurables!
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Aug 21, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
He already looks better than Webb.
Webb looks then runs. Ponder looks then throws to the short route.
At least Ponder is a QB.
I disagree...
… myself. I don’t see it as a given that Ponder is going to beat Webb out at all. And I don’t think it is a disaster if he can’t. I think Webb can be a solid NFL quarterback.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2011 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
I was, of course, just being facetious in my comment above
He does have a lot to learn. But I still think that he did a good job. I think it’s too early to be looking for a lot of deep balls yet. I was just pleased to see that he’s starting to feel more comfortable out there and is beginning to stand in the pocket and go through his progressions. I noted that you’ve been quite pointed in your criticisms of Ponder, but even you’ve should be able to give him some credit for the fact he was able to move the team down the field while Seattle kept most of its first team defense against him and our second team.
Its called a back shoulder fade
QB’s and WR’s work that drill vs man coverage.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
true true
but with back shoulder fades the ball isn’t lobbed or floated out towards the reciever its usually on a wire, very fast tight pass.
There is plenty of room for improvement so lets just hope that Ponder and Webb just keep inproving.
by midnightwonder on Aug 21, 2011 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I didn't see the ball Ponder threw as lobbed or floated
But obviously it depends on how the deep the receiver is.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
A couple of notes
Its clear so far in pre-season the coaches are looking to build up, and not just throwing out long balls into their equation of offense. A smart move in my opinion, you have to learn how to make a lay-up before you move to the free throw line, and out to the 3 ball. Same concept, but in football terms of course. Get your fundamentals down in your short game and then grow out.
Loved watching Rudolph. Throwing a defender off of him (even if he was going out of bounds) and he’s going to be a nightmare defending for opposing teams. The O-line is still a work in progress, but its becoming more of a unit. McNabb is just warming up to his recievers and he hasn’t even had much of an opportunity to have the AP X factor in the game to determine safties and linebackers committing to the run. I’m almost certain Peterson will double his receptions this year and i’ve been craving to see him add it to his game.
Ponder looked well moving side to side and out of the pocket. Webb still runs smooth and looks poise in the pocket. I like Armashodu. Didn’t get to see the first quarter and a half so i’m still looking forward to that but from the talk it seems as though shereles and Burton were all over the field.
SKOL
Nice observation
And it makes sense—get comfortable with the basics, gain some confidence and continuity, and go from there.
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
Ponder and Webb
Getting late to the game sucked, I arrived half way through the 3rd Q, but I’ll watch the recording and get caught up. While I always get excited when the Vikings are playing, it’s usually a reasonable level of happiness in pre-season. But every so often, lightning strikes, like it did when Arceneaux got the ball punched out of his arm and through end-zone, and more appropriately, when Davis lit through the Seahawks backfield like the proverbial greased pig. I scared the cat both times, the poor guy. He’s just going to have to get used to things being a bit raucous when the Vikes are playing :)
I didn’t see a lot of Ponder, but what I did see was what you’d expect from a rookie QB who has what it takes to succeed at this level, but is still trying to get comfortable with the speed and new realities of NFL play. For instance, rabbiting downfield is not as viable an option for Ponder as it was in college. There’s a lot more at stake now, and the people who are going to make him pay for it will be hitting him a lot harder.
Webb looked to me like he was trying too hard. He knew he didn’t have a lot of time and he really pushed to make the most of it. Instead of settling in and picking up small, sure-thing gains, he really really wanted that big TD and he kept forcing it. I don’t like that, but I think it’s a product of the competetion between him and Ponder. I’d rather see a QB relax, take his 5 yards here, 7 there, and nickle and dime his way up the field in a long, sustained drive. Yes, the big air is exciting but it doesn’t build confidence and momentum across the entire team, while demoralizing the other side, the way a slow grind does. Webb didn’t run at the first sign of trouble, which was good to see, and when he did run, he knew when it was worth fighting for that extra yard. He’s one tough guy to bring down when he wants to fight over it, but I hope he doesn’t think he can get away with that on a regular basis. QBs are too valuable to lose over a couple yards gain in a pre-season game.
Between Ponder and Webb, I definitely think Webb is more ready to start than Ponder is, if the season started today. But it doesn’t. Things could change next week. This is probably the most interesting Vikings’ pre-season in a long time :)
This was definitely a much better team than we saw last week. I’m still not thrilled with the Tampa-2 lay back, especially down towards the end zone.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
good thing we got mcnabb.
i would be very worried if webb and ponder were fighting for the number one spot right now.
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
Definitely
Both of them look like they’ll get there, eventually, but the NFL doesn’t believe in putting that much effort into practicing any more. I think it takes longer to get up to speed now, than it took, say, 40 years ago. Our shortened year didn’t help things.
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Rice
I’m pretty sure Rice won’t regret going to Seattle. Considering the way he played his inury/surgery cards with us, rice is preoccupied with getting paid. He doesn’t care about his stats. He only wants to collect a paycheck and do as little work as necessary to get it.
How can you say any of that?
I don’t have any special inside info on Rice’s work ethic. I don’t blame him one iota for wanting to get paid. I think that anyone who doesn’t want to get paid is stupid, and I don’t want too many stupid players on my team.
To some extent, stats translate into $$$. So they all care about their productivity.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
unless you have an arthritic hip condition that would keep you from producing good stats...
…in which case, yeah, guaranteed $$$ is probably pretty important…
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Question for Ted
I don’t know what is considered proper etiquette on this site, but I noticed that Bud Elliott, from Tomahawk Nation was with us for the game thread and posted a comment. I would have liked to ask him a couple of questions about former Seminoles (Booker seemed to be everywhere, doing everything last night, whereas I remember him as being rather quiet and laid back at FSU, and I would have liked Bud’s thoughts on Tony Parker, who seemed to play well also) since he has so much inside information and knowledge about the FSU program. I didn’t know whether it’s considered rude and an imposition while he was probably just trying to watch the game, like the rest of us, so I just decided not to bother him, and I didn’t post anything.
Ask away
Game threads are a free flowing kind of thing. If he wants to answer, I’m sure he will.
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
I think you mean..
Tony Carter but Parker works too :P. Tony was one of the better FSU corners while we were rebuilding. He was a little small to be 100% fair but he also tried. I like tony and I hope he gets a fair shot at making the team. He definitely has some flaws, like his height, and sometimes he gets exposed for silly mistakes but overall he is pretty solid.
Booker was great at FSU. He was a bright spot on a team that didn’t have many on offense.
Hopefully I didn’t sound too biased through my garnet and gold shades haha.
by FSUViking on Aug 22, 2011 12:44 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Duh, case of blanko braino
I meant Carter, not Parker. At least I didn’t type in Romo. I remember Carter as being a real ball hawk, with a lot of interceptions. In regards to getting exposed on some plays, I don’t know whether that was the result of Carter trying to be overly aggressive, or due to the decline in Florida State’s coaching and defensive schemes at the time. I would have liked Bud’s opinion on that, as well as whether he sees Carter as a viable NFL caliber DB.
As for Booker, they had him miked up Saturday night. He was charging around, firing his teammates up, and seemed to have a non-stop motor. I never saw he acting like that at FSU, although maybe I just missed it. In any event, I really like the way he’s stepped it up with the Vikings, and thought that maybe this new coaching staff and the changes they have been implementing are now starting to show in reinvigorated players.
I'd glady talke Ponder over T-Jack
And that is very, very sad for Seahawks fans.
by Jepp The Viking on Aug 21, 2011 12:16 PM CDT reply actions
Yeah..
I think Carroll backtracked on his ‘jerking him around’ comments because, uh.. he realized that he’s probably going to do the same thing with Jackson during the season. I didn’t think it was possible, but Jackson was worse in Seattle than he was here. He at least gave us some hope that he could succeed when he played for us. The fact he’s been in this system his whole career and is still awful isn’t a very good sign.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Aug 21, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I agree
I think he would be better if he could run in a system like we have now with roll outs to maximize his mobility. Not saying I want him back, just saying how the styles of offenses benefit or hinder players
by midnightwonder on Aug 21, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
He was worse is Seattle...
… mainly because they have a shittier offense. Rice aside, I think we have a better offense overall.
by HammeroftheGods on Aug 22, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
i was surprised
That Speilman stayed in the booth for as long as he did. Nice to see one of the Vikings executives just sitting in the booth, cracking jokes with Mayock
by Amrius on Aug 21, 2011 12:38 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah, and I gotta say
Spielman gave pretty good critiques on guys. He held back on Arcenaux’s fumble, though, lol.
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
he did say
That Arcenaeux needed to tuck that ball, which is probably the most he really could say on tv
by Amrius on Aug 21, 2011 1:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, dropping the f bomb on TV
while funny and tipping his hand towards Arecenaux, probably isn’t the best idea.
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
Yeah
One of his more intriguing comments (to me) was that he wants to develop that big rookie WR (Burton?) into an H-Back. I hope that works out because it is exciting to think about someone with that size and speed coming off the end to block quick outside linebackers and catch passes.
Only one problem with that plan
he can’t catch
haha
Well coming out of college
One reason Spelman drafted him was because of his “natural hands”, but he did struggle in training camp and dropped some passes. He did have a good week this week and did catch a pass that was catchable. He is very talented and will get it together even though he will only make the PS this year but I see him making the 53 man roster next year. He does need some time to develop but I believe that he will be a good player for us in the future.
I actually have more thoughts on the Seahawks than I do the Vikings. Who on God’s green earth isn’t Whitehurst at least being given an opportunity to compete for the starting job? I mean, I get that he’s not so good you just hand him the job, but neither is Jackson. I’m tired of this “he has experience in the offense” BS. It’s not good experience. And I’m also tired of giving him credit for “acting with class.” What was he supposed to do? He’s not a star QB who had a ton of leverage, and could force a trade elsewhere. He was damn lucky to be where he was at, and should have been glad about it. I don’t dislike Jackson personally, but this business of making him a martyr is ridiculous.
Bevell is a weak offensive coordinator (4 straight runs down at the goalline, really, not even gonna try to get Jackson on the edge where he’s dangerous?), and Jackson is a weak starting QB. All of these fancy toys on offense, and no way to actually use them. The Seahawks subscribed for HD channels, bought a Blu-Ray player, and connected it to a black-and-white TV with rabbit ears.
I mean, good God, how many times can they run that freaking play-action rollout to the TE? That play is the definition of “I know my QB is weak and here’s how I protect him.” Dnever used to run it all the time with Plummer, for the same reasons. It’s an easy play, probably written in crayon in the playbook, that’s tough to screw up. And Seattle ran it at least three times. That, coupled with a bunch of screens, tells you Seattle knows their QB is weak. So why are they hitching their wagon to him? I don’t get this at all. It’s complete lunacy. Whitehurst came in, against backups granted, and threw the ball a lot better than Jackson did. I’d at least give him an opportunity with the starters to see what he can do.
When Jackson bombed in the Monday night game against the Giants last year, I thought his NFL career might be over. That was his final opportunity to show himself, and he bombed spectacularly, playing poorly and colliding knees with Peterson to end his season. Or so I thought; Pete Carroll has fallen under the same pixie dust that Childress did, and I can’t believe we’re actually here. I never thought, in a million years, that Jackson would walk into a starting job. This is lunacy.
It’s funny; back in 2007 I would have said Bevell and Jackson are one of the weakest coordinator/QB pairings in the league. Here we are in 2011 and they’re paired again, with some other franchise actually looking at their “accomplishments” and asking for more. Unbelievable.
by frank_grimes on Aug 21, 2011 12:53 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I don't think it will be long before
Carroll decides he needs to jerk Jackson around some. Maybe, just maybe, Minnesota did that because the guy doesn’t give your team the best chance to win. That was a perfect case of open mouth, insert foot, and I’m sure Carroll is getting ready to eat his crow already.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Aug 21, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
i think that seattle blew it by hiring bevell and t-jack, but...
given what they now have, i don’t think carroll is handling it wrong, yet.
i think t-jack needs to be given the confidence of his coaches and given a fair shot. he has more starting experience than whitehurst and thus has “seniority” and has worked with bevell before.
whitehurst, on the other hand, has been a career back-up with some hint of promise. i think that by starting
t-jack, and making it his job to lose, it provides motivation for whitehurst to amp up his game and compete.
maybe by starting out with t-jacks as the number one, and whitehurst as the number two, there is greater incentive for each player to play better. both players benefit from that dynamic. if it were the other way around, whitehurst might not have the confidence that he “earned it”, and t-jack might just be bitter and sulk, thinking that he is just getting the short end again. and there might be a lingering uncertainty about the decision.
there are still 2 more games to go in the pre-season. my guess is that by the 4th game, whitehurst will get time with the first team, and that he will be the opening day starter. but, at least the job will be earned, and nobody could then question carroll’s deceision (assuming things continue in the way they have sos far).
warcraft, you are my guitar hero !!!
This is probably right Danny
but I did read the reason they went with TJack is that he knows the offense. They also said once Whitehurst gets up to speed then it could be a real competition.
I don't disagree with any of that
so the question begs: How did Bevell convince Pete Carroll to sign TJ, and was there any motivation beyond money for Sidney Rice to sign there?
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
I'd even ask the question, "What did Carroll see in Bevell?"
Did the conversation go something like this?
Carroll: Why do you think you are qualified for this job?
Bevell: My playbook is COM-PLO-KATID, and I love southern California. Oh, and I can bring my own entourage of players with me.
by kcskol on Aug 21, 2011 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or...
they are going after Luck for next year. And TJ can teach him the offense. LOL
by midnightwonder on Aug 21, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
No, its called "the backside DE is crashing hard on the stretch play, so let's run boot on his arse."
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Ev Griffen and Awasom had good games
Griffen has been impressive so far this preseason and Awasom had a great game last night. Good to see we have quality depth at DE this year better than last year. Awasom had a sack and knocked down a pass and applied pressure on almost very passing play. I want to see how they do this coming week against Dallas.
Anyone ever see stats on
Players in the final year of a contract prior to free agency and then compare to how they do in the first year of their new FA contract? I’ll be curious to see how Edwards, Leber, Rice and others do. I’m willing to bet that signing the big FA is usually not a good move. It sure has not been for the redskins.
by Vikefandc on Aug 21, 2011 6:41 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I wouldn't count Leber on that list
He probably received the vet minimum. You could probably look up how he played in his first year with the Vikes though, after coming over from SD.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Ted, not sure I agree
I thought Webb played better with the 2’s last week than Ponder did this week,…
Webb through a terrible, terrible pick with the 2’s vs Tennessee. Webb also took off running a lot vs tennessee. Also, Ponder was playing with the Viking’s 2’s while Seattle still had in many of it’s starters. It’s not really apples to apples in that regard.
I might argue that Webb looked better with the 3’s vs Seattle than Ponder did with the 3’s vs tennessee. But everyone looked better vs Seattle, so again not really apples to apples.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
agreed
I am not saying Ponder looked great, but he did improve from last week to this week. I don’t think he has regressed. Sure some of his passes weren’t completely on target. The Oline he was working with also wasn’t exactly the best. They gave up 2 huge penalties back to back and were letting seattle through fairly quickly. Some of this has to do with them keeping some of their first string D in at the time though which also contributed to his problems. He also hasn’t even been in the NFL for a month yet either. Given that fact, I thought he looked pretty good compared to someone who has had significantly more time to both learn and practice.
by FSUViking on Aug 22, 2011 12:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
"I will never, ever believe you"
…why do you blame Chilly instead of Bevell? I’ll never understand why Vikings fans constantly bash the play calling of Childress and say nothing about the offensive coordinator actually calling pretty much every play.
The general consensus around here is that Chilly called the plays
Or at least the bad ones. Regardless, the Offense was rolling as long as the QB play was above average. Pretty much like any other team in the league.
I really think that the play calling was handicapped with TJack. The dude could not handle the whole playbook. Nor could he read the entire field. AP hasn’t been the best blocking back on 3rd down either. So I guess with all things considered, sometimes its not about the Xs and Os as much as it is about the Jimmys and the Joes.
Unfortunately for Bevell, he’s still stuck with TJack so perhaps we’ll never know who to blame…
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Because Chilly was the defacto OC for three years
and Bevell didn’t call plays until 2009, but Chily had override authority. Bevell was on a short leash, as was the QB that ran the offense, even Favre.
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
...he hired Bevell?
Chilly is ultimately responsible for all of Bevell’s decisions because he was THE BOSS.
by jimuellenbach on Aug 22, 2011 7:02 AM CDT up reply actions
Just like Philly
Mr. Noodle came here from Philly where he was oc, & game planner but on game day Andy Reid called the game. With the Vikes no matter who was oc it was still Chilly’s call on game day.
L. A. Player
by L. A. Player on Aug 22, 2011 7:16 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Berrian
Did he play? I didn’t see him. But then I’m used to him taking games off. More suprized by the games he shows up then the ones he doesn’t.
Loved Juaquin Iglasius I hope this kid makes the squad.
Loved Marcus Sherels I like this kid better than Cook and Alen. Seems to be a bit of a ball hawk.
Loved Cord Parks He’s such a strong tackler. I do wish the Vikes would try him with the first team.
I told You all that the D-line would be pretty good against lesser O-lines.
+1 for Iglesias and Sherels
Parks looked good, but unfortunately he is lost on the depth chart. Griff looked good(so glad he’s back) and obviously Toine is the man so no room for Parks. Best of luck to him with another team or even better, get on the practice squad and maybe move into a spot if the secondary gets bit by the injury bug again.
Skol!
agreed
TBH, i think Iglesias could replace Camarillo (who is sporting a $1.7mil contract for this season). i don’t want to downplay the importance of a dependable vet, but Iglesias has caught everything thrown his way from what i can recall and has shown great after-the-catch ability. i don’t think Cam is worth it with the young talent that is flashing at the position (i.e. Jaymar and Iglesias).
Sherels = WOW. i love how he recovered from the [questionable] fumble. maybe not the best PR, but a more-than-capable dime back and, of course, i love the local angle. i hope to everything holy that he leapfrogs Asher on the depth chart. (sidebar: heard Asher has turf toe…can we just let him go, already?! my dislike for Asher is well-publicized around here, but c’mon, Burton and now Sherels both look better.)
Parks looked good on ST — i wouldn’t be averse to keep him around for that, but i doubt that’s an option given the depth. i think Parks and Carter will make the PS, hopefully other teams won’t pluck either — good potential, there.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
This game got me excited too, Ted
I went from fearing we would be picking over other team’s roster cuts to thinking some good players aren’t going to make our roster. The coaches are doing a great job with the young players. Musgrave’s offense looks good – seemed like there were more play-action passes last night than the entire 2010 season.
We are loaded at RB and TE, our QBs are good, the WRs are better than I thought, the secondary looked better than expected, and the OL looked better than the Tenesee game as far as 2nd-and-3rd teamers. Players that caught my eye:
Tristan Davis – what a beautiful 35yard TD run. Showed perfect patience in using his blocks and cutting to daylight. I definitely want to see more of him. Hope he makes the practice squad in case AP leaves in FA next year.
Devin Aromashodu – runs hard, faster than Sidney Rice. Great lay-out catch inside the CB that was reminescent of SR. Good special teams plays.
Juaquin Iglesias – good hands and fluid runner. We should trade Berrian to open up some WR roster positions. BB don’t seem to catch anything > 10 yards anymore.
Tony Carter – 3 times I noticed him make a nice play. Good signing although he looks odd with #49.
Stephon Burton – impressive 3rd-down catch and fight forward for the first down.
And of course Lorenzo Booker, Marcus Sherels, and Mistral Raymond.
Like a lot of folks I won’t see the first team play until Teusday (thanks NFL network). The 2nd & 3rd string DL didn’t look good. No run stuffers and not much of a consistent pass rush. Second week in a row Everson Griffen has been burned by an end-around.
by Caretaker QB on Aug 22, 2011 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions
Sherels
What do you all think his chances of making the roster are? I remember liking him during the 2010 preseason quite alot as well.
I think he's pulled even with Asher Allen
He had a bad fumble on the punt return, but otherwise had a very good game. He made more plays in one pre-season game than I remember Allen making all of last year and this year. He’s also been a ballhawk at training camp.
Sherels is really making a push to make the team, and if he keeps it up he will.
This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morrisette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"--Sterling Archer
well losing asher Allen won't bring a whole lot of tears to my eyes...
Childress gone, TJack gone, new stadium on the way: it's like that Christmas when Santa brought prostitutes!
i second that...
Asher frequently (read: always) gets burned, and isn’t the greatest tackler. he probably has a little trade value, but it’s too late for that as far as i’m concerned — i’d rather have Burton and Sherels as the #4 and 5 CBs.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
That Carter kid was looking solid against Seattle too
I wonder if his ST ability is on par with one of the other guys who takes up a roster spot just for ST’s? I love Frampton on ST’s but he is not a viable option at Safety.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
I'm embarrassed to say that until this weekend, I hadn't heard of Carter.
He seemed to do quite well.
i think he might have been a late addition to the roster
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Punt returning is a specialty. Perhaps he doesn't have it.
But his other play has seemed to be quite good.
WR's...
my boy Arceneaux…tragic. =( i was pumped when he caught that pass and had the red carpet laid out for him… he hasn’t had many opportunities this pre-season, and doubt he’ll get any more after that fumble through the endzone. that’s life, i guess.
the WR roster is gonna be tricky. obviously Percy is fine, and unfortunately Berrian looks to be locked in (…blech). Jenkins is probably fine, too. so, where does that leave us…?? two spots??
i fear the ‘vet’ mentality will win out and Aromashodu and Camarillo will win by default. don’t get me wrong, Aroma has been playing well, but i’m not a fan and i don’t trust he’ll be clutch when the time comes. Cam is reliable, but do we really want to pay $1.7mil for what will probably end up being another 20-some catch season…??
point is, i’d rather have Jaymar and Iglesias as the #4 and 5, as opposed to Aroma and Cam. Jaymar could probably still make the team as a PR, but then we’d lose out on Iglesias — and he’s flashed enough this pre-season for another team to pick him up if we waive him. i’d rather have the younger guys with higher ceilings.
Percy, BB, Jenkins, Jaymar, Iglesias… anyone?? Bueller?? Bueller?? …??
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Here's my list
Percy, Jenkins, Jaymar Johnson and Aromashodu. That leaves one space open. I haven’t seen enough from Iglesias and Arceneaux to know which to choose for the last slot. I definitely would drop Berrian and Burton however.
If nearly every fan can see that Berrian isn’t worth the spot on the team, then I have to believe the coaches can see that too. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him dropped from the team. Honestly, the other guys seem to be able to play at Berrian’s level. I know that isn’t saying much, but I think there’s a good chance that given the chance they’ll be more reliable than Berrian.
That's a good arguement
Especially considering his salary…I think Iglesias has shown more in the preseason games than Arceneaux has. But I can’t speak for how they practice. Obviously Arceneaux’s fumble didn’t help his cause.
I got a question, and since you are one of the most recent posters on this thread, I’ll ask you: Do you know who started at RG vs. seattle? I noticed DeGeare played RT with the 2’s. I think the starting RG was Kooistra, but I am not sure. Can you help a brother out?
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Just saw your post. Would have loved to have helped but...
…inexplicably the NFL Channel only showed the game from 5 minutes left in the 2nd quarter and on. I’m going to have to wait until Tuesday night to see the 1st half.
Thanks guys
But I just read that Kooistra was placed on IR.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
I'm kinda on board with you there
1. Percy
2. Jenkins
3. Aromashodu
4. Iglesias
5. Jaymar
It’s tough for me to cut BB, but he just isn’t playing at a level that justifies his salary. I know he restructured, but I am sure he is still making some serious cash.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
BB is getting 1.9 million on his restructured 1 year deal. I was up for cutting him when his # was 3.9 but 1.9 seems about right.
by CanadianViking on Aug 22, 2011 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Professional sports is one of those things in life that defies reality
Anywhere else and I’d be screaming, “$1.9M for averageness! What is going on here?!” That said, I’d still choose Aromashodu and Jaymar Johnson over Berrian. Not sure about Iglesias, but I’m inclined to take the chance.
Agreed on the 1.9 mill for average performance being ridiculous.
My five would be Harvin, Jenkins, Berrian, Aromashodu, and Jaymar. I actually like Iglesias, Arceneaux, and think Burton has some developmental potential. Wouldn’t mind if the Vikings kept 6 and Iglesias or Arceneaux make the team.
by CanadianViking on Aug 22, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
We agree on the same 6
Percy, Jenkins, Aroma, Jaymar, Iglesias, BB. That would be a decent corps. I think it could rival the Pack’s corps in the sense that they would all be over achievers (none drafted high-minus Percy in the 1st).
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Yeah, I think that's a good mix.
Two vets in Berrian and Jenkins, three cheap and talented young guys with upside, and the versatile Harvin moving all over the field to open things up.
by CanadianViking on Aug 23, 2011 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions
i'd take Aroma over BB, too...
in my eyes they both have the same ceiling, but at least Aroma is contributing on ST and appears to be faster.
unfortunately though, i think the coaching staff believes that BB will prove himself. i don’t really have faith in him… but as always, i’m more than willing to eat crow.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
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