SN: NFC North’s last place finishing team this year? Pt. 2- Defense
by UnBannedVikingholic on Aug 31, 2011 4:18 PM CDT
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First off I'm very surprised and thankful for the amount of responses to my first half of this post. (Originally posted here.) Thank you all for showing me some support. It means a lot. Hopefully, for the ones who come to my blog, understand that I probably can't update it every single day, because I have no help at the moment. So please consider that when deciding to come visit or not. Ok let's get started.
From the feedback from my rankings of certain areas from Lions and Packers' fans, I'm going to attempt to be a bit more blunt in this post. No, I'm not saying I'm going to be disrespectful or rude to the other teams, so I'd like to share with you a quick definition of blunt that sums up what I mean.
"b : being straight to the point : direct".
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Now, let's pick up where we left off. Hmm, let's copy and paste the scoreboard to save us some valuable time.
Point count. Leader: Packers 17/25, Vikings 14/25, Lions 12.5/25, Bears 12/25
According to the preseason, this should rank as Lions, Packers, Bears, and Vikings. The Lions have been mightily impressive, especially their defense and Stafford. Will they hold up enough to catch up or surpass the Vikings and Packers in this ranking? Let's find out.
Defensive Line
3 out of 5.
Let's take a look at their depth chart. This isn't the final roster, so we'll evaluate what we can.
| POS | First String | Second String | Third String | Fourth String |
| LDE | Israel Idonije | Corey Wootton | Jake Laptad | |
| DT | Henry Melton / Matt Toeaina | Amobi Okoye | ||
| NT | Anthony Adams / Matt Toeaina | Stephen Paea / Marcus Harrison | ||
| RDE | Julius Peppers | Vernon Gholston / Corey Wootton | Mario Addison | |
Peppers is a beast. He can man-handle many of the top O-Lineman in the league. I'm pretty sure he gets bored in practice thrashing past the Bears O-Line every day. The Bears can bring the pressure well at times. I like their depth. Vernon Gholston and Amobi Okoye are back ups, but they provide a much needed relief to the starters.
4.5 out of 5.
| POS | First | Second | Third | Other |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| LDE | Cliff Avril | Lawrence Jackson | Keyunta Dawson | |
| DT | Ndamukong Suh | Sammie Hill | Quinn Pitcock | Montavious Stanley |
| DT | Corey Williams | Andre Fluellen | Robert Callaway | Nick Fairley |
| RDE | Kyle Vanden Bosch | Willie Young | Narada Williams |
IF Nick Fairely has a good year, which he should, the Lions D-Line will be a 5 by the end of the season. Corey Williams has the ability to stop the run and with King Kong Suh rushing at the quarterback, I'd consider getting life insurance before the game if I were the quarterbacks. Vanden-Bosch is stout as well. This is a scary line, but I'd like to see how well the rotations work out before giving them a flat out 5.
3 out of 5
| POS | First | Second | Third | Other |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| LDE | Ryan Pickett | C.J. Wilson | Lawrence Guy | |
| NT | B.J. Raji | Howard Green | Jay Ross | Chris Donaldson |
| RDE | Mike Neal | Jarius Wynn | Eli Joseph |
It's a bit difficult grading a 3-4 defensive line. To me the linebackers are the most important players in this scheme. B.J. Raji holds his ground and makes the big plays when the team needs him to. As for their defensive ends, I can see them sucking up blocks to allow the linebackers to break through the line. I'm trying to be fair here. I want to say 2, but the Packers are great at rushing the quarterback and stopping the run. The D-line must be taking some part in that.
Vikings
3 out of 5
The Vikings have two new starters on the line who have much to prove. Brian Robison is one of the two. He has shown strides of being a good starter Defensive end, but hew was used in rotations and didn't play as much as the starters. We will see can he be an upgrade over Ray Edwards. Remi Ayodele is replacing Pat Williams. Big Pat was up there in age and couldn't contribute to the team at the same level as his past. Hopefully the younger Ayodele can hold his ground as well. The Vikings still have two dominating forces on the line. Jared Allen and Kevin Williams. Them alone gives this line a 3. Our depth seems pretty good, but someone is going to have to step it up.
Point count. Leader: Packers 20/30, Vikings 17/30, Lions 17/30 Bears 15/30.
Linebackers Corps
Bears
3 out of 5
| SLB | Nick Roach | J.T. Thomas | Tanner Antle | |
| MLB | Brian Urlacher | Dom DeCicco | Tressor Baptiste | Chris Johnson |
| WLB | Lance Briggs | Brian Iwuh | Patrick Trahan | Deron Minor |
To be honest I'm not as scared of the Bears line backers any more as I used to be. Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs are up there in age, but they still are pretty good.
Lions
*2 out of 5
| OLB | Justin Durant | Bobby Carpenter | Doug Hogue | |
| MLB | DeAndre Levy | Ashlee Palmer | DeJuan Fulghum | |
| OLB | Stephen Tulloch | Isaiah Ekejiuba | Caleb Campbell | Cobrani Mixon |
Let me be honest. When I seen this depth chart I didn't recognize anyone's name besides DeAndre Lew's on the list and I consider that a bad thing. Maybe someone with more knowledge of their line backers could fill me in on how good they are. For now they get a 2. *= due to change depending on more information involving this group.
Packers
5 out of 5
One of the top line backing corps in the league if not the best. Very quick, athletic, tough and has plenty football smarts.
Vikings
3 out of 5
This corps is now starting the undrafted rookie Erin Henderson, the son, no brother of E.J. Henderson. From early signs, he seems pretty good for the position. He sure can tackle, but I want to see him out in coverage more. Chad Greenway in E.J. are awesome linebackers and if Erin pan out well this group could be in the 4-5 range as well.
Point count. Leader: Packers 25/35, Vikings 20/35, Lions 19/35 Bears 18/35.
DB's & Secondary
Bears
2 out of 5
Name a corner or nickel back or safety on this team not named Charles Tillman. Yeah, again that's a bad thing. If they even had the potential to upgrade they would at least have a 3, but it's basically the same team.
Lions
2 out of 5
If the Lions d-line get the pressure on the quarterback that they have the potential too, then this unit will look good. If they don't, you will see why they are a two.
Packers
4 out of 5
Good pass rush + Charles Woodson= Pretty good chance to win. Nick Collins can be lights out as well.
Vikings
2.5 out of 5
The Vikings have potential to be a good secondary unit. If Chris Cook, Cedric Griffin, and Winfield step up, the Safeties will have an easier job, and they need all the help they can receive. I see this unit being at least a 3.5 at the end of the year. But that's why we play the game?
Point count. Leader: Packers 29/40, Vikings 22.5/40, Lions 21/40, Bears 20/40
So look at this. The Bears will finish last place this year? Not just yet, let's add in one more thing.
Special Teams:
Bears: 4 or just (Devin Hester), Lions: 3, Packers: 3, Vikings: 3. Pretty even throughout the division and the Vikings have improved dramatically. Last year I would've giving this group a 2.
Now let's tally these scores and see who will finish last this year.
Bears. 20+4= 24
Lions: 21+3= *24
Vikings: 22.5+3= 25.5
Packers: 29+3= 32
2011 Predicted NFC North Standings
| Team | W | L | T | PF | PA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Green Bay | 11 | 5 | 0 | -- | -- |
| Minnesota | 9 | 7 | 0 | -- | -- |
| Detroit* | 8 | 8 | 0 | -- | -- |
| Chicago | 8 | 8 | 0 | -- | -- |
* = Detroit's Linebacking corp deciding if there is a tie with the Bears or not.
There you have it. Feel free to disagree. I'd love to hear your feedback.
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Funny,
I have it mostly the same:
Them, 11-5
Minnesota Vikings, 9-7
Chicago Bears, 8-8
Detroit Lions, 7-9
Question, how did you assess wins and losses in division? If one, in our division, team had more points than another did you give that team wins in both meetings?
The road to fulfillment in any line of endeavor is always marked by an initial breakthrough; however, that first taste of success needs to be replicated again and again in order for supremacy to be sustained. We are Vikings, and we shall rise again.
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Aug 31, 2011 5:56 PM CDT reply actions
I wouldn't give the LB's a 5 for them
But I will say much to my disgust that they are pretty stacked top to bottom, and may be 12-4, or 13-3 with one of those losses coming from us. I still think the kittens have to many holes even though they have some shiny new toys. Da bears are getting long in the tooth and with Cutler leading this team I don’t see them making any noise this year but his crying. Nobody (even some here) thinks we are going to compete for a playoff spot which is good we always seem to do better when the pressure is not on us. I like us at 10-6 and being the last wildcard. And why yes Purple coolaid is my fave.
SKOL!
Disagreement about the Packers rankings
I’m going to start by saying I think the overall ranking of the Packers defense is right, but I would just change some of the position group rankings. I can understand why the rankings came out the way they did, but it doesn’t quite capture where the talent is on the Packers defense and how they are able to make their plays.
DL is probably about right for the moment. It’s hard to break down and compare the Packers d-line to other since the expectations are different. That said, Raji was great against the run and lead all NT’s in sacks last year with 6.5. In fact only two DT’s had more sacks than Raji did last year (Suh and Tommy Kelly). Apart from Raji there aren’t many pass rushers but Picket and Green are both stout against the run and able to eat up blockers to let the LB’s get to the runner.
LB is probably too high. I would suggest a 4 out of 5. Hawk and Bishop are both pretty good in the middle, but the ILB depth isn’t what it was a year ago. They also don’t really have a complement to Matthews on the outside. Walden is acceptable, but not really special.
Secondary is too low. This is where the talent is for the Packers. Three Pro Bowlers last year in Woodson (who had a down year but is still one of the best all around defenders in the league), Collins, and Tramon Williams. Add in Shields, who was an undrafted free agent who turned into a key starter and getting Morgan Burnett (an athletic safety with a nose for the play) and they are looking as good or better than what Philly can put on the field for a secondary.
That’s the trick with the Packers defense. They want to try and get into nickel as fast as possible going with a 2-4-5 set up as much as a base 3-4. They can do this since Woodson has the tackling and blitzing ability of a linebacker or safety, but most of the coverage skills of a corner.
I also think the Lions linebackers are a bit low. Tulloch was one of the best 4-3 OLB"s out there in free agency and is familiar with what Schwartz is going to want to do since he played for Schwartz in TN. Durant had a down year last year, but the year before that put up some impressive numbers and is in no doubt an upgrade over what they had the year before. I would move them into the 3/5 category there.
Since youre using this formula to predict the final standings
Why not rate on a scale from 1-4, since there are four teams in the division?
In other words the team you deem to have the best Dline gets a 4. The team with the next best gets a 3, then the next gets a 2, and worst gets a 1. etc, etc.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Because of certain areas the teams may be tied in.
☠★☪Creator of http://skolnation.co.cc and dedicated DN reader.
by UnBannedVikingholic on Sep 1, 2011 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
4 point scale limits the subjectivity of the analysis
I mean it’s easier to rate team against team this way.
"I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it."
Very fair analysis
The one category I think you are missing is coaching. I would have no clue how to rate us since this a brand new crew. My two cents. GB’s staff all seem to be on the same page. Not sure how long they have been together but they work well together. Chicago on the other hand seems at odds with each other. Outside looking in Lovie and Martz don’t seem to mesh. Not sure who their DC is but he is a good one just not as aggressive as he used to be. Just don’t know enough about Detroit to comment.
I hate having a long reply on the mobile. To hard to go back and format sorry for the one long paragraph.
by SouthernNorseman on Sep 1, 2011 4:33 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
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