The Off Season Prospectus, Which Is Like The Stock Market Report, Only Different
by Ted Glover on Jan 1, 2012 8:30 PM CST
in Stock Market Report 2011 Season
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PrintWell that was fun, wasn't it? No?
No.
The worst on the field performance in Minnesota Vikings history--and that's saying something when we factor in Les Steckel--leads us towards the most unsettling off season the franchise has ever faced, for several reasons.
At least at the conclusion of the Les Steckel debacle, we were fortunate enough to have Bud Grant come back and steady the ship for a season, getting the team back to respectability, and then handing it off to Jerry Burns, all the while playing in a stadium that was just a couple of years old...and state of the art.
We have no such security blanket this time around.
There are some tumultuous changes ahead for this franchise, and we will see wholesale changes from top to bottom.
Well, we SHOULD see wholesale changes. Changes...take it away, Ziggy Stardust David Bowie:
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
(Turn and face the strain)
Ch-ch-Changes
Oh, look out you rock 'n rollers
Ch-ch-ch-ch-Changes
(Turn and face the strain)
Ch-ch-Changes
Pretty soon you're gonna get a little older
Time may change me
But I can't trace time
I said that time may change me
But I can't trace time
Our Off Season Stock Market Prospectus Report, after the jump.
If any of you have stocks, 401(k)'s, IRA's, or something similar, at the end of the year you get this prospectus thing in the mail, which is like a year end report, and in it it tells you how awesome that stock was, even if it lost 67%.
This has been a challenging year to be a Vikings fan. From the stadium, to bad coaching, poor performance on the field, and injuries to key personnel, Vikings stock dropped precipitously from a Jan 2010 high.
How do we get back to that point in time, a half second before Brett Favre threw that fateful pick, when we were all sure we were going to the Super Bowl? Let's look at some key decisions that need to be made for the Vikings to turn it around and get back to the top.
1) Solve The Stadium Issue, One Way Or The Other: Mentally, I've gone to a place where I am of the belief the Vikings will relocate. Sorry to say that, but that's where I am. If something does get done, I'll be ecstatic, don't get me wrong, but there seems like there are too many hurdles to overcome with the lease expiration now upon us. This is what I ask of the Vikings: If you leave, don't drag it out. Announce it and just go. It will be better for everyone that way. It will give me time to accept the fact I will never give two hoots about the NFL again, and I can focus all my football efforts on college ball.
But if they do get a deal done...
2) Re-structure The Front Office: There needs to be one guy that is in charge of football operations. Period. There's no doubt that the current 'Triangle of Authority' has made some good moves--generally solid first round draft picks, a few gems in later rounds, and solid free agent acquisitions. But there have been some mistakes as well, and those seem to overshadow the good--bad to horrid draft picks from the second round on, questionable moves at the QB position, and the Randy Moss fiasco. I have to believe that if there had been a GM running the ship, the Vikings wouldn't have either pursued Favre and traded for Sage Rosenfels in 2009, and they wouldn't have traded Moss only to turn around and release him one month later.
If owner Zygi Wilf decides to keep Rick Spielman and make him the bona fide GM, fine. If he wants to bring in somebody else to be the GM, that's fine as well...but there needs to be one guy that speaks for the team for football moves. That's not to say that the coaching staff doesn't have input, but the old saying of 'if you have two QB's, you don't have any' very much applies to the GM position--if you have two (or three), then you don't have any. The VIkings need one.
3) Speaking Of Quarterbacks...: Christian Ponder was drafted to be the quarterback for the Vikings for a long time, but you can't deny the effectiveness of Joe Webb. You can make an argument for or against either guy, and you can use game film to back up any one of those arguments. Both guys have looked good at times, both guys have looked bad at times. They both have one win this season, both have looked like guys that can lead the team...and both guys have looked shaky. Look, I like them both, but the Vikings are going to have to pick a guy. I know they want to give Ponder every chance to win the job, and that makes sense seeing as how they drafted him in the first round. But you can't deny Webb's athleticism or playmaking ability (when he's not in the ridiculous Webbcat).
Leslie Frazier needs to play this one down the middle. As the Vikings head into the off-season, they need to make this an open competition, and let the guy that performs the best win the job. Recent Vikings history has shown that when a guy is anointed as the starter, it doesn't go well coughTarvarisJacksoncough.
4) Speaking of Leslie Frazier...: Yes, he should be back for 2012. The last thing the Vikings need is to get into the 'fire a coach every two years' cycle, as that just leads to constant turmoil and strife. But Frazier needs to make some adjustments on the coaching staff. Yes, there have been injuries, but I think Fred Pagac needs to be replaced. The Vikings got burned by the same plays, week in and week out, and the amount of adjustments made seemed minimal.
As for Bill Musgrave, I think he deserves another year. Unlike Pagac, who has been on the staff for several years, Musgrave had no off-season to install the offense. As the season wore on, he seemed to get creative in using Percy Harvin, and by the end of the year Harvin was a legitimate run/receiving/return triple threat, and they did a good job of keeping him relatively healthy. Were there problems in not using Adrian Peterson at times? Sure, but overall, I think he deserves another shot. But for the offense and defense to be effective...
5) A Lot of Roster Turnover Is Needed: Some teams don't rebuild, they reload. Some teams are in a perpetual state of rebuilding. For many teams, it's a cyclical thing, like it has been for the Vikings since 2000. They've been to the playoffs four times since then, won three division titles, and have gone to 2 NFC Championships--but they've also posted records of 3-13, 5-11, and 6-10 (twice). On offense, as the offensive line goes, so goes the offense. A solid line makes either Webb or Ponder better, and either Toby Gerhart or Adrian Peterson a 1,000 yard back. They need another receiver to complement Percy, and a healthy Michael Jenkins will be an asset. If you told me the Vikings were going to have a brand new starting five on the line, I'd tell you that was a good start.
On defense, the secondary needs a complete rebuild. On the defensive line, there are some playmakers there besides Jared Allen and Kevin Williams. Christian Ballard has looked good at times, as has Eversen Griffen. MLB E.J Henderson will probably not be in Minnesota next year, and his leadership will be missed. The Vikings have the makings of a decent secondary, assuming they pick third and the Rams take LT Matt Kalil. Winfield will be back, with the third pick the best player on the board is LSU CB Morris Claiborne, and if Chris Cook comes back they could be in business.
Right now, I'm not smart enough to see who's available in free agency that the Vikings would have a realistic chance of getting. Wilf has no reservations to go out and get somebody if the staff says 'we need this guy', but it's also critical for the Vikings to have a home run draft. For too long, the second round and on has yielded little in terms of value and return on investment, which is a large part of the reason the Vikings find themselves with so many holes to fill today.
A few key free agent signings and a solid draft and the Vikings are well on their way to turning this thing around, but another bad draft and it will be several seasons before they make the climb back.
The Viking Zen Master Gives Us Words Of Wisdom For The Off Season
Finally, Your Don Glover Moment Of Zen: So at the conclusion of the game, my Dad and I sat in the living room for a couple minutes, and didn't really say much. So I ask him "well Dad, what do you think about next year?" He paused for a moment, looked at me, and said:
"Well, I'm glad this shitstorm is over. That was bad, son. Either that idiot Frazier or that idiot that calls the plays needs to go. And why didn't they start Joe Webb six weeks ago? Heads gotta roll, son. Heads gotta roll."
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Future is always bright.
New GM, great free agency, great draft and we are back in business. As long as we stay in MN.
Don't you know who the *^$% I am?
by Jeppernaut on Jan 1, 2012 8:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Ted-
your father is awesome. That’s all I have to say for now… I’ll come up with something more in-depth about the Vikings later.
261 Daily Norseman readers and counting say I am a genius... the masses have spoke!
...and those who voted 'moron' were secretly Packer trolls.
Follow @KJSegall
by KJSegall on Jan 1, 2012 8:56 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Yes Ted, your father is awesome.
Excellent observations you’ve quoted from him all season. I don’t suppose that’s a Kluwe jersey?
Nope, Favre
That was taken in ‘09 when the Vikes came to St. Louis. As soon as Favre was signed, he called me and said ’it’s this year or never for a Super Bowl. Get on the Favre train, and any chance you could get me a jersey?"
If my Dad wanted a Brett Favre jersey, by God he was getting one. We got matching ones, actually.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
by Ted Glover on Jan 1, 2012 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe you could get your dad set up on Twitter?
He could give us a daily moment of zen.
Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin
http://www.dailynorseman.com/
Heh
Not a chance.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
Ah...
So you’re worried he’d have more followers than you ;-)
Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin
http://www.dailynorseman.com/
by Skol Girl on Jan 1, 2012 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
LOL
No, but if my Dad were to get on the Internet it would be proof positive that the Mayan Apocalypse thing is true.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
84 was worse
Ted, come down from the ledge. The Les Steckel team was worse because they didn’t have 2 young promising QB’s, Percy Harvin, AP, and Jared Allen – for starters. Yes it was great to have Bud for 1 more year but Burnsie didn’t exactly set the HC bar very high the next few years.
Also, the Vikes are Not leaving Mpls. They’re going to build the new stadium in the Basilica neighborhood and the new stadium is going to launch this franchise back to the SB.
Buck up!!!
by Torstein on Jan 1, 2012 9:03 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I appreciate the optimism
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
I wish I could defend Musgrave
At times his offense looks creative and inspiring. Other times it looks predictable and ineffective. I know that he didn’t have a full offseason to install his playbook. I know he had McNabb, then a rookie, then a Slash at QB. I know the oline was a complete dumpster fire. I know AP was lost for close to 5 full games. But still, when I see the Vikings use the same formation over and over and run the same plays out of those same formations, I have to question him.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Maybe
He couldn’t get as much done as he would have liked during the limited off-season and just kind of had to stop implementing his playbook after a while? At the very least, I can’t imagine having to learn as you go during the season while still keeping up what yo know and what your opponents are doing can’t be easy.
Now, i’m not saying we give him a pass. Definitely put his ass in the hot seat, but i’m in Ted’s camp that he shouldn’t be straight out fired this year. Give him 2012 to prove he’s qualified for the job or show him the door. Maybe not even the whole year. At the very least let him know he’s being watched.
hasn't this style of play calling been his M.O.?
If I remember right, someone on here state that in the past Musgrave seemed to have an excellent gameplan on some plays but then leave everyone scratching their heads the next. I really hope that’s not true.
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
by TroyW18 on Jan 1, 2012 9:20 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Playbook? What playbook?
The one he used when his offenses did poorly with other teams?
He’s already proven over and over and over that he can’t get a team near the top…
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 1, 2012 9:21 PM CST up reply actions
It would be so horrible if the Vikings left..
Maybe next year we can pull a MN Twins and fire up the state about keeping the franchise, although the circumstances are quite different.
I agree with most of your points Ted.
I will say that I think they need to think really hard about the QB position. I do not think that Ponder can hold up for an entire season. He is injured way too often. He did not do it in college and he could not do it here playing in only 10 games or so. I like him and agree with your take on his play. But if he cannot stay healthy then he is a major risk.
I think Webb has shown some flashes of being able to come in and do some things when Ponder went out. We still do not know what he can do if he is the legitimate starter and takes all the snaps and defenses can prepare for him. Teams will adjust their pass rush and spy him and force him to pass the ball. This is something we have not seen enough of to make a definite conclusion.
If I am GM, and everyone is very happy I am not that is for dang sure, I am looking hard at Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III. If the Vikings wanted to move up to the number 1 spot they do not have too far to go and can make an attractive offer to Indy which still allows Indy to be in the top 3. We really have to ask when is the next time the Vikings will be this close to the number one pick and a prospect like Luck? It could be years and years.
If they do not want Luck then if the Rams stay put and take Kalil or Blackmon then the Vikings have to think hard about RG3. If they cannot get a great package to move down then RG3 is the BPA at #3. And if we are going BPA then why not take RG3?
They can trade Ponder or Webb if they wanted or keep all 3. Philly got a second round pick and a decent corner for Kevin Kolb. The Vikings may be able to get as much for Ponder. They may be able to get a 3rd for Webb.
All I am saying is that the QB position is not settled and having an open competition between a player that has been hurt in the last 3 years he played football and a running QB is not very comforting at all. Bypassing the chance to get a better prospect is risky. Very risky. And I am an offensive line type of guy through and through.
Alas, I do not think it will happen though. Frazier is committed to Ponder and believes he can get better. If there was a new coach coming in then maybe that coach would think differently. But I am not a fan of this process either. If I am the owner I would not let coaches dictate the personnel because I can fire the coach and be stuck with his personnel.
Anyway, just some food for thought on the QB situation.
I do think that there will be and should be a major influx of new players. Probably close to 20 new players at least. After the last two years a major overhaul is needed.
You've been saying
that the O-line needs to be retooled. Now it’s the QB again? This was a game played to a loss. There is absolutely nothing of significance except for the 3rd slot in the Draft.
An O-Line that can provide better protection or add 1-2 more seconds could have been the difference all year long of a touchdown or more per game. Your O-Line call was spot on early this season. No sense in stirring the QB situation pot in a developmental year with a new OC who has had a proven track record in Atlanta.
In short, the NFL labor issues robbed any realistic chance of the Vikings from having a shot. One month to get ready wont really cut it in a new system. The established teams won with strength.
by VikesFanSince1967 on Jan 1, 2012 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
I understand the labor issues
but other coaches have had more success like Harbaugh in SF and Jackson in Oakland and Garrett in Dallas.
I am worried about the line for sure but more worried about Ponder’s ability to take any kind of shots on a consistent basis in the NFL. The kid is hurt too much unfortunately. No one wants to talk about it so it feels like the elephant in the room to me. This is a major issue with him and is not surprising.
All I am saying is that the Vikings are sitting at #3. They do not have far to go to get to #1. There is no other prospect like Andrew Luck and who knows when there will be another. Considering all that the Vikings should think long and hard about moving up. They can make a very attractive offer of picks and players and it would allow Indy to still be at #3 in the draft.
I am not trying to stir the pot. I just think that all scenarios should be considered, discussed on the merits, and then dismissed if that is the case. I do not believe in arbitrarily dismissing ideas or scenarios that could help the team.
Indy will not give up Luck.
Why would they drop to 3rd and lose out on a player they have been wanting. That makes no sense to me. We would have to give up SO much to even make them consider it we would be cutting our own throats considering how many holes we have to fill.
I would be afraid of what would happen with Luck or RG3 behind this line
Even if we were able to address the line in the second round (Which might not be possible because the estimates are it will take 3-1st round picks, 2-2nd round picks and possibly a couple 3rds, but you make a valid point that we could be asked for less because Indy would only slide from 1st to third, but there’s no way we have a 1st and 2nd rounder this year if we trade for Luck). That would leave us with not very many draft picks with several glaring holes. I know both Luck and RG3 are athletic but so are Ponder and Webb. Webb’s a burner and Ponder has showed some serious wheels at times. But we would be looking at essentially the same line, because there’s no way we get legitimate starters for our line that late in the draft. And there’s way too many holes to fill in our roster to plug them w/ FA.
We would be stuck with spending a 1st round pick on a quarterback again, a relatively unproven 3rd year quarterback AGAIN, and possibly with no legitimate #1 WR AGAIN! There’s a good possibility that Shiancoe will be gone, who was Ponder’s security blanket. Then there’s still the issue of our whole defense. I say pick Kalil or Martin, and go into camp with it being a true QB competition.
We need our draft picks for the future, because we’re already in a hole and need a few this year to pan out so we can start to dig ourselves out.
by nmatt71 on Jan 2, 2012 1:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The estimares are way off
It is just something the media talks about.
When Philip Rivers was traded for Eli Manning in 2004, San Diego received the Giants first (#4) which was Eli, their 3rd (#65), their 2005 first and fifth.
That is what the package would look like if the Vikings moved up from #3. If the Colts wanted more then they can get it from another team. But that package is something I would point to if I was negotiating with the Colts.
As for fixing the line, there will be prospects at #35 or #67 that the Vikings could select. The Vikings could turn around and try and trade Ponder to a team for a pick or two as well.
Also, a guy like Jared Gaither may be available in free agency and I have wanted the Vikings to pick him up for quite some time. There are going to be plenty of free agent WRs that the Vikings should try and sign. Pierre Garcon would be a nice addition. If the Vikings did that then they do not need a high draft pick WR. They may end up signing two WRs. Same thing with the secondary. The Vikings will be aggressive trying to sign a safety or two as well as a CB.
Interesting that you chose not to talk about Ponder getting hurt all the time though.
I guess he is just going to somehow magically be able to finish a season when he has not done that the last three years.
Yeah, but
Eli said he wouldn’t play for the Chargers, undermining their leverage.
But regardless, that’s a guy who could maybe start right away this year, and another who should start next year along with a backup. That’s too much for a team with two guys who look like they could develop into starting QBs and tons of holes to fill.
Trading up would be the fantasy football play, but it makes no sense in the real world.
I agree Ponder is hurt a lot this year
But I would like to see him have a full year without getting hit every snap he takes. He is getting rocked every time he gets behind center. I think he could do better next year with an improved line. I refuse to condemn any player after just one year, especially when we have two prospects who look fairly promising. If he’s hurt next year, as often as he is now then I very well could be next to you saying the same thing. Remember all the talk that Matt Stafford had? He was almost deemed done before his 3rd year because his line was getting him killed, also.
And Eli or Philip Rivers were not being touted as the next John Elway. Hype sells, look at Tebow and when he came in. I think the package would hurt us for many years.
I think the Chargers are going to hold onto Gaither
He’s been performing very well for them, so I don’t see why they’d release him. I mean, they knew he was an injury risk but they took him anyway.
I still think its a little too early to begin the Ponder-trade speculation as well. The only way I see that working out is if the team is absolutely dead-set on Webb’s viability to start for an extended period of time.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Jan 2, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
if Luck or RG111 were...
in minnesota playing behind the present line in 5 years they would be mentioned along with ryan leaf, heath schuler and a few others. gotta have protection!!
Most importantly
David Carr and Carson Palmer.
Leaf and Shuler were mostly busts on their own merits. Carr and Palmer were talented players who really could have been great if they had been able to survive.
The best comparison would be Munchak in Tennessee
Recycled veteran QB. Rookie QB in the wings. RB issues. But Tennessee was in the playoff race.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Agreed
The offensive line is key to any success. A major upgrade of personnel and coaching is needed along the offensive line.
I would give the line coach a pass
Sully improved this year, but the rest is just complete lack of talent or motivation.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Open competition
I totally agree with you that QB is not settled but I hate the thought of drafting another one in the first round. Soooo … Did you see the numbers soon to be FA Matt Flynn put up today in his audition game? It kills me to think of signing another Packer but man, he’s gotta be considered at least. 480 yards and 6 TD’s today!
by Torstein on Jan 1, 2012 9:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree totally about the QB position
But the only QB I would take is Luck. RG3 had a remarkable college season. He is a high character kid with amazing deep ball accuracy and world class athletic ability. But I saw some limitations in his game toward the end of the season. He does not read the whole field. I saw him lock onto his first read and pull the ball down to run if they were not open. As you have pointed out, he get his plays from the sideline. It will take some time for him to develop into a pro QB. Or it will take a major commitment from his coaches to implement some of the plays that he ran in college into their system in the pros.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Two best offensive play calls of the year -
1. Webbcat
2. Toby run to the outside. That is the most genius play EVER.
Anyway way to hang in there Vikings fans. Things will eventually turn around and we’ll be up towards the top again, maybe in our lifetimes! :P
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
Hope you're right - not sure how many seasons my lifetime has left, lol.
The picture posted a week-or-two ago of Webb faking a handoff to Ponder is burned into my mind as Musgrave’s offensive genius.
LOL!
You’re right! That’s the blue ribbon play of all time!
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
A piece of real conversation I had today:
Her: “Lions are going to the playoffs? But they are such a bad team?”
Me: “They were a bad team. The way the draft is structured, if you keep losing, you keep getting best players and in a few years your team becomes much better. That is why every team gets better in cycles.”
Her: Gives ‘the’ look.
Me: “Except Vikings.”
and yet against the Bears
Musgrave again had both qb’s in at the same time, this time with Webb under center and Ponder as a wide receiver. Again, the Defense knows that they won’t risk a hit on Ponder, so it effectively takes Ponder out of any play making possibility. Considering on any given play, the defense has 11 players charging for the ball, while the offense only has 10 blockers, with this play, Musgrave made his offense to have only 9 blockers with 11 men on the field. That’s assuming you count the offensive line as blockers.
A few points
1. Thanks Mr. Glover for a year of excellent writing and analysis. It is clear you spend time writing, rewriting and editing and I, for one, appreciate your crisp summaries. Thanks for your content and delivery.
2. Process vs substance. I think it’s easy to look at certain process issues like a GM and think they are the problem. However, changing process rarely makes a substantive difference. We need impact players and we need younger players.
I agree we need a good draft, 2-3 high quality FA’s. When you look at the roster and where the money goes, we clearly have some places to cut. EJ, Hutch, Winfield, Shank have all been great players but we might be able to replace them with younger talent for the same or less money. We may need 2-LBs, 4 DBs, 2 OL, a WR and some quality backups not to mention a DL.
But we also need quality more than quantity. I would rather get 3 high quality starters than 3 average starters and 2 backups. I would consider trading down but ONLY if it gives us another quality starter.
At least our coaches will have time to assess needs and options. It’s a new year, no where to go but up! I look forward to a vigorous offseason, a good draft and a much better 2012 season.
Thanks to all the DN contributors for outstanding content and please know your dedication and efforts are greatly appreciated.
by Vikefandc on Jan 1, 2012 9:33 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Regarding #2 Process vs substance
Getting the impact/younger players is the role of the GM…which is exactly why we need 1 GM. One person to be held accountable. One person to make personnel mistakes, rather than 3. One person whose sole job is to evaluate talent (with input from others) and sign the best players.
You want good players, you need a GM who can recognize who is good enough to sign.
Any update on Tobys injury?
First round next year I say we draft House!
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
MCL
Is what I heard – (same as Urlacher today too) which means it shouldn’t require surgery and the recovery is way faster than an ACL.
by Torstein on Jan 1, 2012 10:00 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I heard it was an MCL sprain.
Not really a concern now that the season is done and he has a few months to heal.
Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge.
- Paul Gauguin
http://www.dailynorseman.com/
not going to happen but what if?
Fat chance of Indy passing on either Luck or RGIII, but if the Vikings were to magically find either of them available…….I’d take RGIII “if” they can’t rebuild the OL quickly because he can run like the wind and his arm is stronger than Luck’s. But, if the OL did take form, Luck would be my guy. Like i said, aint gonna happen but the two we currently have raise more questions than they answer. Vikings must have a combination of a great draft, FA, and some good trades to get back quickly. Otherwise, don’t look for much better than 7-9 or 8-8 next year.
by jjlovesfootball on Jan 1, 2012 11:07 PM CST reply actions
Lots of time to speculate, but would the Rams really pick Kalil with Jason Smith and Saffold manning their tackle positions?
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jan 1, 2012 11:43 PM CST reply actions
Along the speculation line
Thought I heard the TV experts saying Sam Bradford took a step back this year because of not having good WRs – which makes you think they’d pick Blackmon.
by Caretaker QB on Jan 2, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
The Rams have been clamoring for an 'elite' WR for the past couple seasons
They haven’t taken one high yet, but, at the same time, they haven’t been in position to. But you can tell by their Free Agency WR-signings that they feel they desperately need one. Hell, they were desperate enough to trade for Brandon Lloyd.
So, I agree. I don’t think they’ll go O-line with that first selection.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Jan 2, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
I'd love to see Kalil in purple, but...
This team’s offensive line is so depleted, they need new blood, now. Trade down and get two star OL’s, and don’t back at Kalil, who will probably be a perennial pro bowler. Get Martin or Reiff, then a massive guard. Personally I think DeMarcus Love will make a decent RT, and then it’s a matter of who will fit best at LG when Hutch finally runs out of gas.
Then find a deep threat WR. Draft or free agent, doesn’t matter.
Finally, draft some DB’s. Don’t even need stars, just average guys will be better than what we have today.
Man, this team really needs to move out some bad football players.
FA WR
i would rather try to get a wr from the free agent market…an experienced wide out would be way more beneficial for the Vikings young qbs. There are going to be a few guys who are solid and willing to get out of the situations they are currently in. Having Peterson and Gerhart are pluses because they draw the safeties up. YES. AP will be ready to go in 2012. Even if he misses preseason, I’m feeling good about him!!
2011 Stock Market
-Blue Chips: Jared Allen, Percy Harvin, Adrian Peterson, Kevin Williams, Chad Greenway, John Sullivan
-Solid Investments: Christian Ponder, Joe Webb, Kyle Rudolph, Michael Jenkins, Brian Robison
-Stocks to Watch: Christian Ballard, Everson Griffen, Brandon Fusco, Erin Henderson
-Junk Bonds: Entire Defensive Secondary, Entire Offensive Line (not named Sullivan)
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
in the secondary's defense...
winfield is a solid investment, and I think mistral raymond may be a stock to watch….
I wouldn't be so quick to label Greenway a Blue Chip
What did he do this year besides lead the team in tackles, most of which were 5-10 yards down field? Definately Jared, Percy, and AP. KWill was hurt so I’m sure that affected his play, but can he bounce back? i’d put him somewhere between Stock watch and solid investment. Sullivan improved this year, but he is not pro bowl caliber, yet. Solid investment. I’d put BRob under Stock Watch. With all the attention JA got this year, BRob only produced what like 5 sacks? And he was terrible vs the run. Ponder is definately under Stock Watch. Poor decisions, terrible accuracy, injured often. But he is a rookie. And he did show promise, at times. Very athletic, and not bad when throwing on the run.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
I hear what you're saying about Greenway
And he did have an off season, but as our leading tackler how much worse might we have been without him in there?
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
You're right on Sullivan
He should be under Solid Investment. I think I got carried away because of his contract extension. He’s really only been solid for 1 year. If he has another great year again in 2012, then I might argue to put him in Blue Chip. Generally I define them as follows:
Blue Chip: Has had solid years of contributing at an elite level, including (but not necessarily a requirement) a pro bowl appearance.
Solid Investment: Maybe has had a break-out year, or performs at a high level, but not consistently. Maybe a younger elite talent, but hasn’t broken out yet or demonstrated elite talent long enough.
Stocks to watch: backups with tons of potential, players that have flashed talent periodically, rookies with potential, etc
Junk Bonds: starters that aren’t living up to expectations, backups that are wasting roster spots, players that routinely get beat by lesser players in the league, etc.
I don’t know how Mr. Glover defines them (it’s his column after all), but that’s how I usually see it.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Good call
Toby should be Solid Investment IMO. An argument could be made that he’s inching towards Blue Chip with his outstanding performance in the 2nd half of this season, but he’d need to prove it for an entire year or more for that kind of status. Not sure how I missed him!
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
I think it depends on Toby's role
As a starter, he might merit a Blue Chip, but I’m not sure he does as a backup or change of pace for AP.
His is an interesting situation. His play while AP was hurt was truly solid. I had been very skeptical about the guy, but he showed that he can be a starter in this league. Without AP’s knee injury, I think the front office would be facing a very interesting decision about what to do with him this off season.
But as is, we sit tight and have him as a potential starter if AP can’t make a super-human recovery before the season starts. If/when AP is back at 100%, he might be trade bait.
Not entirely relevant
I think one player that we should take a good look at is TCU’s Tank Carder if he ends up in the draft. I spent a lot of time watching TCU when they would play my Utes in the MWC and that dude can play. We need to get more playmakers on the defensive side of the ball that can take focus off of K-Will and JA and he has the skill set to work at it. If we can’t find anybody worthwhile for DB in the later rounds and Carder is on the board, i think he would be a solid draft.
Eclectic fan? You don't know the half of it.
Considering how meaningless this game was, how come the Vikings didn’t go for it towards the end of the first half?? Third and one from the Bears ten yard line. With an athletic QB like Webb, couldn’t they try a QB sneak? A field goal isn’t always a sure thing as Longwell proved on Sunday.
by vking1 on Jan 2, 2012 12:39 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Some FA's to consider
M. Colston – WR
D. Bell -OT
C. Nicks – OG
T. Thomas , P. Lee -CBs
D. Connor -LB
Plus three good draft picks and a full off-season. Would not be shocked to see the Vikings trade either Webb or Ponder depending on who is available when we pick at #3
by Vikefandc on Jan 2, 2012 12:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Get a QB
sorry Colston isn’t coming here. Why would you leave a pass happy offense, HOF QB, and a system that has been to the promise land? However, I think the QB we should look at is in GB. I know the history of signing a back up QB hasn’t been too good. But Flynn looks good. He looked good against detroit, and looked good vs Patriots last year. Hell he looked good against us. This would allow us to trade one of our young QBs, acquire draft picks and hopefully solidify our O-line. Spend this draft on O-line,DB and maybe a WR in the late rounds. Hopefully get a quality FA or two and we are back in business.
if we could develop a solid O-line in 1 season....
and looking at alternatives to CP7 or Spiderman, I’d be perfectly happy with Kyle Orton. he’ll tear up defenses IF HE HAS TIME AND A POCKET…..
but QB is way down on the priority list…IMHO it’s 1) O-line 2) secondary 3) a true #1 WR, 4) LB 5) QB/a good run stuffing NT to play next to Kwill….
Especially because
We have two young guys who have both shown real potential but have had to run for their lives all season.
There’s just no real way to evaluate either guy until there is some semblance of that pocket, which will be true of any other QB we bring in as well.
We'll all know soon enough
Surely, there will be much discussion on forums like this before next season starts. Lots of unkowns but one thing is for sure. We’ll find out soon enough just how smart the front office is by who they draft, who they sign as F/A, and who they make trades for. They are either going to look really smart or really dumb. Let’s hope for the former. Let the speculations begin!
by jjlovesfootball on Jan 2, 2012 12:48 PM CST reply actions
Final play?
I thought Webb played outstanding , with the exception of the final play. Was there ever an explanation? Was that due to communication, or was it a really errant pass?
by vking1 on Jan 2, 2012 12:55 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Looked to me
Like he overthrew Aromashadu who was running a crossing route over the middle. Or he way underthrew whoever was going deep.
K-WIll played like a beast
yesterday. He showed that he’s still a top 5 DT in the league when healthy. He was in the Bears backfield all day. And on that note, our entire D-line played well. I’ve thought this all year and yesterday backed up what I thought: We have waaaaaaaaay more pressing needs than any D-line position in this year’s draft. Allen adn K-Will are both dominant. Robison, Griffen, Ballard, Guion have all shown flashes. I think drafting a DT in the first couple rounds would be a poor choice, with so many other needs on the team
there is a glaring hole at NT
It doesn’t matter who is there. I wouldn’t use the bears game as a litmus test either. Their oline is about as bad as the vikings. Throughout the game I could help but wonder how ugly the game would have been if both Forte and Cutler were in it.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
ponder=webb
I like Ponder, but he obviously needs blockers and a couple more recievers. I think Webb is explosive and is akin to a change of pace back. He has dynamic tools and brings something different to the table but the longer I saw him play the more of the same I saw. Without blocking and then better recievers they both are going to eventually have similar numbers. Having a #1a and a #1b is a necessity now….but like I always say …no matter how good a qb is, he can’t complete a pass flat on his back.
I'm Not Saying, I'm Just Saying...
This is me losing my Norseman virginity, so go easy on me…
I like most of the talk happening here, but I think people are forgetting about the role of the DEF-Coordinator in our problems. Before we talk about the draft and FA’s— how about we take a little time to interview Steve Spagnolo and Raheem Morris about running our defense?
I love me some Adrian Peterson, I really do, but I think everybody realizes that the NFL is a passing league now. I say we sign the best FA LT on the market, draft a QB with the #3 pick (RGIII, who apparently rates higher than Cam Newton, and didn’t that guy have a “pretty good” year?), trade a QB for a second-round pick, and draft a CB and OL guy with each of those picks.
I know that doesn’t fix our problems, and merely touches on a few of them, but I think that is as good a start as any. Besides, do we really need Colston (who is Ponder, I mean, injury prone) or Garcon (not by any means a stud) eating up our money to not fit in here. Percy went all BEAST MODE at the end of the year, and Jenkins was solid off and on as well.
If we take these steps, we won’t get blown out every week— we’d just lose 35-32, and bank more draft picks to use on WR/CB the following year.
Joe Berger
Anyone else like this guy?
He opened up some massive holes for Toby the past couple weeks.
I think BergerTime is a solid lineman to keep around. He’s versatile and he did a good job playing in place of Hutch. He’s listed as a Center, but I’ve seen him moved around all over the line this year.
Loadholt either has to go or has to seriously condition this offseason. The amount of plays I saw him give up on during Sunday’s game was staggering. If I was a coach and saw that shit from the sideline I would have sent him to the showers. The guy really looks like McKinney 2010 style. His play has gradually deteriorated since his rookie year. Not good. Frazier needs to have a serious sit-down with the guy.
I really like Herrera. He’s scrappy. Unfortunately he’s getting old and he was never elite to begin with. Serviceable is becoming mediocre with the majority of his play and he gets injured once or twice a year now.
Charlie Johnson was a stop gap. You’ve gotta figure he’s done as a Viking.
Let’s fill those holes in the line, Vikes! Damn… we had a pretty damn good O-line just 2-3 seasons ago. :/
by Odin'sDrunkenSon on Jan 3, 2012 9:34 AM CST reply actions
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