Everson Griffen To Safety? It's So Crazy, It Just Might Work
by Ted Glover on Jan 11, 2012 6:45 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings 2012 Off-Season
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Bob Sansevere, St. Paul Pioneer Press columnist, has disappointed me the last few years. Probably not as badly as I've disappointed my parents over the years, but he has. I don't live in the Twin Cities anymore, so maybe he's focusing more on a radio show or something, but he's really tapered off on his columns, and I used to really enjoy them. They were insightful, made me think, and elicited a reaction...which is what we like to call a Writer's Trifecta. But over the last few years, his writing has really tailed off, to a point that it's no longer a must read for me.
But I have to tell you, Bob Sansevere hit one so far out of the park, I think Roy Hobbs was actually at the plate. It seems crazy, nuts, odd, even mad...but the more I think about it, the more I like it.
Imagine Everson Griffen at Safety.
Crazy, no? No. Let's see if we can make you a believer, after the jump.
Now, in Sansevere's defense, he admitted that it was probably folly, and he was much better suited as a linebacker or DE (and at the end of the day, I agree with him), but made kind of a compelling case for an outside the box move like this would be.
Everson Griffen was one of the few young players on the roster that made me sit up and say 'wow' more than once this year. He was a solid backup behind Brian Robison at LDE, and at times he outperformed him. They also experimented with him at linebacker, and I thought he showed some potential there.
He also has the speed and ability to play the thankless gunner position on punt returns, which requires a fast guy to speed down the sidelines, fight off a double team, and keep the returner from getting outside and preventing a potentially big return.
I mean, think about this for a second. A guy with the speed to play safety, but the size to play defensive end. It seems completely ludicrous, but consider--in the early 1990's, 300 pound linemen were an oddity, now they are the norm. In the 1980's, guys the size of Daunte Culpepper were defensive tackles, by 2000 they were starting QB's in the NFL. So if we're talking NFL evolution, it's just a matter of time before 270 pound defensive backs are the norm.
But here's why I don't think it's as nuts as Sansevere essentially concedes. Griffen is fast, and as a linebacker, if the Vikings were to move him there, coverage skills are a requirement in today's NFL. Does he have hands? I doubt it, but that's not really been a requirement for a defensive back in these parts, so that shouldn't be a disqualifier on this team. Could you teach him basic coverage skills? Sure, why not. He's not going to be required to play bump and run coverage as a safety; as a cover 2 guy it's mostly over the top stuff.
With his speed, he'd be effective as a defensive back on a blitz; it would be like having an extra lineman on a pass rush situation. And can you imagine the absolute fear he would put into receivers coming across the middle? Oh. My. God. He can absolutely bring the wood, and opponents would think twice about going for the ball.
Yes, I know moving to Griffen to safety has about a 0.0000000000001% chance of happening. And yes, I know that he will be best utilized as either a linebacker or super sub d-lineman.
But if Brock Lesnar can get a tryout at defensive tackle, I don't see why we couldn't see what Griffen could do at safety.
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That would be so sick!
But hes better off at DE.
by PurplePrideforLife! on Jan 11, 2012 6:49 PM CST reply actions
It would be awesome to see Griffin sprinting from the defensive backfield for a sack or laying out a receiver over the middle. But, I also have concern for the human condition and it scares me to think where the game would be going if SAFETIES were regularly 270ish pounds. Holy schnikes.
"When I put on my uniform, I feel I am the proudest man on earth."
-Roberto
by blackjackfishtaco on Jan 11, 2012 7:04 PM CST reply actions
Someone say my name?
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, it's just that your's is stupid.
by HolySchnikes on Jan 11, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
dude
This idea get sansavere in the win column? This is exactly what I don’t like about him: he has no idea what he’s talking about.
Straight line speed isn’t all that’s needed I’m the secondary, but it is to play gunner.
by amiller92 on Jan 11, 2012 7:13 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
safety??
I dont know about that..I did a fan post last month about moving him to OLB… some folks thought I was insane, and some liked it,, I for one am all for it.. I think he has plenty of athletic ability to play OLB… I think that we need to find some way to get this kid on the field one way or another….
Everson at OLB
I would agree with you that it would be a good fit for him and our defense….BUT, that depends on if our defense changes at all (still staying within the 4-3, but more like Philly’s old D). The problem in Cover-2 is that Everson would have to be decent in coverage.
At the very least, I don’t see him being any worse than Erin Henderson and with EJ most likely leaving it makes sense. As Dr_Defecate pointed out, the best move would be putting Greenway at MLB and using Everson’s speed off the edge.
Safety? No way.
But in the event we end up playing some 3-4, I can see him at OLB.
by Lars in SLP on Jan 11, 2012 7:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I've seen Safety moved to DE...
Dontay Moch in college at Nevada, ran a 4.4 at the combine and the Bengals moved him to OLB.
I’d be comfortable with Griffin at OLB, S not so much.
Go Nevada Wolf Pack!
Ease up on the wheat beer!
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
Now I know this would never happen but.....
For this player alone, I would love to see the vikings play a multiple look defense once and a while. Kind of like what the old Patriots would do back in the early 2000’s (not sure if they still do this) when they won a bunch of Super Bowls, but ours would be based around the 4-3. But in all honesty what am I saying? They couldn’t really run 1 defense this year let alone 3 to 4 different ones.
We already have a HUGE safety
His name is Jarrad Page. He measures 6-0, 225. Most safeties are 190-210 lbs. The largest safety in NFL history was Adrian Wilson who was 6-3, 230 lbs. Putting Griffen at safety would be ludicrous. He is 6-3, 273. Sure, he ran a 4.66 40-yard dash at the scouting combine, but that doesn’t mean he’d make a good safety. Check out these other 40 times for DE and Safeties:
Jared Allen: 4.71
DeMarcus Ware: 4.56
Jason Babin: 4.62
Troy Polamalu: 4.3
Eric Weddle: 4.48
Eric Berry: 4.47
So, no, absolutely not. Griffen is too big and too slow to play safety. He’s perfect for DE, and if he dropped some weight, he could transition to LB. Actually, we’d be better off trading him to a team that runs a 3-4, because he doesn’t have a solid position on our team.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Even though he isn't any good Taylor Mays is also 6'3" 230 lbs.
by Dodger48 on Jan 11, 2012 9:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Griffen is actually one of my very best reasons for liking a 3-4 switch...
I think he’d be an absolute beast in that scheme.
He can be an absolute beast in the 4-3
And his naturally spot in the 3-4 is rush backer, the only place where Robison and Allen can also play.
Problem with trading him
We won’t get good value. No one realizes what a beast he’ll be in a 3-4. No team will give us more than a mid round pick for a backup defensive lineman, no matter how athletic he is. Honestly, he should be worth a 1st rounder.
I don't know what's wrong
With just playing the guy at DE. Robison’s a bit small to play on every snap, and disappeared a bit in mid-season when he was asked to. Put Robison back at rotational rush specialist and let Griffen start at end and everyone probably best positioned for success.
And
I don’t get all this talk about how Griffen’s best suited for playing a position he’s never played in a system in which he’s never played.
DeMarcs Ware never played LB or a 3-4 when he was drafted
Worked out pretty well for them. Projecting talent is a part of the game.
I'm not saying
that he won’t be successful in the 3-4. I’m saying that it doesn’t make any sense to argue that we have to change our system because it’s clear he’ll be more successful in a position he’s never plaid.
Fun idea to toy around with
But little more than throwing sh*t at the wall. I miss talking about playoff games :(
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by Eric J. Thompson on Jan 11, 2012 8:28 PM CST reply actions
He’s probably athletic enough to do it but it’ll obviously never happen. I think he could turn into the Vikings next really good pass rusher. I was impressed with him in the few games I saw. I couldn’t believe he was a gunner either, lol!
And btw — Did the Vikings really fire Dunbar? I thought for sure that they needed to clean house this offseason in some spots but not the DL coach. For years it seems like the Vikings have done two things extremely well, and that’s find good Rb’s and D-linemen.
Fire Slocum
According to Tom Pelissero
at 1500 ESPN, there were some “red flag” issues that came up with Dunbar. He said the same of Singeltary, although he still remains on board.
"You can write articles and do whatever you want, you can break down every player. Good, bad or ugly. But we just aren't good enough as a team, as a group. Offensively, defensively and special teams, from the No. 1 on the roster to the last man on the roster. We just aren't good enough. It's as simple as that." - Chad Greenway
by Grape Drank on Jan 11, 2012 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
It makes just as much sense as staying with Tampa 2
It’s all about matchups, and maybe we should switch to man coverage and put the fear of Odin into some of the other teams.
I could also envision switching to a 3-4 and putting Jared Allen into the pass-rushing outside linebacker position. He would not only get his sacks, but our team would put a lot of fear into the pass protection schemes of opponents.
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 11, 2012 8:34 PM CST reply actions
Allen is not a 3-4 rush linebacker
Some guys are more effective with their hand in the dirt. Allen is one of those guys.
Must have been a slow week down at the Press
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Completely crazy
But if he was back there, I don’t think they’d be throwing to Megatron running towards him.
Imagine a full speed collision between Griffen and ANY WR. Good God. I’m pretty sure if the NFL could, they’d veto that under the idea of Player Safety.
I’m just waiting for the day when Devin Hester doesn’t call fair catch and Griffen gets a free run at him, or anyone for that matter. Think teams would ever triple cover a gunner??
lol hesters there one second the next
There’s an explosion of limbs jersey and dread locks
by Lunchpail on Jan 11, 2012 9:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't care where
Just get Griffen on the damn field. With a defense devoid of playmakers I can’t fathom why Griffen spent so much time on the sidelines this year. Especially the last half when everytime you saw Griffen he was chasing some poor sap.
Or they gotta trade him for a legit young CB or saftey. Can’t use him, trade him. But to watch him sit next to Webb and Gerhart on the sidelines all next year will really have me questioning the not so brand new GM and Frazier. If they can’t find a way to play these guys or trade them then I don’t know wtf they can do.
we can use him, alright
He should be starting at DE. Did Robison really do anything remarkable this season? How many times did you notice him on the field vs. How many times did you notice Everson Griffen? Griffen would be a perfect pass rushing end, and with his size he could hold up against the run. But for some reason, Pagac saw the need to keep Robison in there.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 11, 2012 11:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Robison's a pretty damn good DE IMO...
but we could have used a much heavier rotation, or even played robison more at DT in passing situations, like we’ve done in the past.
I like Robison
The beginning of the year Robison was on fire. Towards the end of the year (maybe b/c E-griff was killing it) Robison was making plays as well. I think he had like 2 QB strips for a fumble and a turnover in the last 3 games. The middle 8 games he wasn’t to be found though.
Since you brought it up, I would actually prefer trading Robsion and keeping Griffen because I think Griffen has the potential to be better. B-rob is just like Ray edwards was: An above average DE who disappears for games at a time.
All this talk about where to play Everson...
and the answer is obvious to me. Robison should be a rotation guy off the bench. Griffen should be terrorizing QBs and OTs.
by Are we cursed? on Jan 12, 2012 1:09 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Robison was one of the better DE's in football this year...
and should have been getting this PT a long time ago, IMO. He’s better than Ray Edwards, and always has been IMO. I don’t really get why he doesn’t get any respect from many. He’s quite solid. I think Griffen can as well, but Robison isn’t exactly a “problem”. I think when we rotate those guys more and get KW fully healthy (next season) we’ll be that much better along the DL. Of course I still advocate a switch to the 3-4, but barring that I still like our DL group for the 4-3 of course.
I like both a lot, and I think we can/should keep both...
I’d like to see Robison and Allen play less (keep them fresher) and rotate in Griffen more and more. The Giants’ pass rush has always been effective because of their heavy rotation; I think we can/should be similar.
don't know why you would ever blame "the GM" for that...
playing time is never a GM responsibility. that falls squarely on the coach. it’s not spielman’s fault that frazier won’t play one of his stud draft sleepers (IMO).
True
But if there is alot of depth at one position and none at the others then he has to balance that out. If Frazier won’t or can’t use the talent he has than its the GM’s job to make changes and find a way to fill the many holes that this team does have. It makes no sense for the vikes to have great depth at the RB and DE positions and no starting talent across the entire secondary and that is on Speilman
It will be from now on...
that’s why he was named GM so we can have 1 person accountable instead of the TOA bs, which was like having three kids that broke a lamp and they all cry “not me”
by midnightwonder on Jan 12, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
True, no one was responsible
But the Japanese system of “management by committee” has worked pretty well for their businesses…
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 12, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
It's crazy, but...
I’d really like to see them try it. It’s got “just crazy enough to work” written all over it IMO.
But yea, I would be shocked if Griffen isn’t a starting LB or LDE by next season.
I'd like to see them try it
In the preseason. Really could he be any worse than the crap we have out there now?
A lot of people are saying OLB and Greenway as MLB. What about Griffen as MLB? He seems to have the speed to cover the field from side to side. Not so sure if he could do the deep drop need as a MLB in the Tampa 2 (how fluid are his hips). This would be a few experiments they could try in the preseason as this guy should be on the field the majority of the time.
by VikesFanInTulsa on Jan 12, 2012 8:16 AM CST reply actions
LB is more reasonable
I think it would be a nightmare trying to teach Griffen pass coverage. Assuming he has the athletic ability to make the switch to Safety (which I doubt he has, because his speed is great for a DE and real good for a LB, but it’d still make him one of the slower safeties in the league), it would take him a couple years before he’s even an above average safety. Sure he’d make some bone-crushing hits from time to time and blitzing him would be make a 3rd down back “whiff” on him just to save his career, but he could be a Pro Bowler at DE or a stud LB NEXT year depending on his development in the offseason. I’d rather see him in a position where he can be as close to the line as much as possible: the closer he gets the more his speed is an asset.
As for the gunner thing. The reason he is successful as a gunner IMO is not because he has gunner speed, but he’s fast enough with the immense size he brings with that speed. In a situation where a smaller 4.4 guy gets double-team and manhandled at the line, a guy like Everson can toss them both like flys and get up the field faster despite being slower. It’s a great move to have him out there.
That being said, before 270-lbs DEs at Safety becomes the next revolution, you’re going to have the 240-lb LB making the switch first. And so far that’s not happening or you’d see guys like Clay Matthews or Patrick Willis experimented at safety. Those guys are faster and cover better and could make the switch much easier than Griffen IMO.
I'm cool with this...
…so long as he keeps his jersey number. I would love to see a safety with number 97 on his jersey. (I have a feeling WR’s would not.)
Just more weirdness
There’s a lot more to playing safety that being fast as both Tyrell and Madieu proved over the years. To suddenly teach Griffen the ins and outs of playing safety would take some time, and I don’t think it’s a productive use of his time or the team’s resources. Then again, this is the team that’s been spending a lot of Webb’s time trying to make him into a part-time WR. Who knows what the Vikings have in store for us this year?
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Strong safety takes less training and smarts
Than free safety.
Plus if we occasionally went with man to man coverage instead of getting burned so much on the handoff in zone coverage then it might work…
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 12, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
Right idea, wrong guy
The guy that should have been playing free safety isn’t Everson Griffin, but linebacker Kenny Onatolu, who is fast, fearless, and hits very hard. Unfortunately, at 225lb, Onatolu isn’t quite big enough to play starting linebacker. Next best thing is to plug him in at safety. Like Griffin, Onatolu has played gunner on special teams.
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