A Thought On Switching To The 3-4
by KJSegall on Jan 24, 2012 5:40 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings 2012 Off-Season
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Print...it's not happening. Thought complete!
Hey everyone, how have you all been? Sorry for my absence lately. Been busy with a few things, plus, with all the stadium hubbub (you have no idea how many times I have had to delete a barrage of f-bombs and other obscenities right now), I've been laying low and letting the better writers of that stuff get it out there.
Oh, and f*** the Minnesota government.
Anyways, I know that the idea of switching to the 3-4 defensive line has been floating out there ever since we put a bow on the craptastic 3-13 season- be it by fans, reporters, etc. Well, if you're still hoping that's going to happen- sorry to rain on your parade, but that is 99.9% off of the books for 2012.
Leap of Faith!
With the Minnesota Vikings having finally squared away a few things in the defensive coaching department- love it or hate it- we can pretty much see that there's not a single proponent of the 3-4 scheme in the mix.
Leslie Frazier- As the head coach he obviously has final say over any such decisions; furthermore, as a head coach whose pedigree is in defense, he's going to be even more involved in such decisions, rather than delegating them out. Frazier has spoken many times against switching to the 3-4, saying his background is firmly rooted in the 4-3, and that he feels such a move would be a knee-jerk reaction to what other teams are doing, rather than based off what would be best for our team. Honestly, I'm inclined to agree with him at this point in time.
Alan Williams- As the new defensive coordinator, Williams' background from the Indianapolis Colts speaks further to no switch. The Colts run a 4-3 (as well as a cover-2, just like us), so like Frazier, that's what he'll be comfortable with. Furthermore, as a former defensive backs coach, he will probably be less inclined to mess with the defensive line in his first season as a DC.
Brendan Daly/ Fred Pagac- The two key people who would like be involved in a switch to the 3-4 would of course be the Defensive Line coach and the Linebackers coach. Daly, after his time with the Vikings in our own 4-3, was the D-line coach for the Rams, who also ran a 4-3. Pagac of course has spent his time with us solely in terms of the 4-3, both as the Linebackers coach/ Defensive Coordinator.
Of course, aside from the defensive coaching staff, there are two key players the Minnesota Vikings should care to consider in terms of 4-3/ 3-4: Jared Allen and Kevin Williams. Both spoke openly against the change, Allen basically going even so far as to openly hint that he would prefer to leave the team should the switch occur. Allen has recently stated that the team did reach out to him in regards to their intentions in this matter, and assured him that no such switch was in the plans, much to his pleasure.
So, overall, for now we can put the ‘switch to 3-4 defense' chatter to rest. At least for 2012- if next season doesn't yield considerably better results, there will likely be an absolute team explosion/ implosion, with many drastic cuts and changes. Of course, whether or not that includes moving to the 3-4 is something we can't even begin to fathom at this time.
One final thought- for all those praying the team made the switch, I should point out that the two teams in the Super Bowl right now- the New York Giants and the Evil Empire, er, New England Patriots, say something for the 4-3. The Giants themselves of course run the 4-3, and with some pretty darn good results this postseason; the Patriots, practically the architects of the 3-4, have been actively trying to switch back to the 4-3 for a bit now, playing both from time to time. So let's not all so quickly jump on that 3-4 bandwagon just yet- perhaps there's really something to that traditional 4-3 defensive scheme.
But that's just my humble opinion. What say you, Viking faithful? With the 4-3 scheme set to return, are you pleased, or do you wish we had moved to the 3-4?
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If the coaching staff....
…. switches to a 3-4 and pisses off their best defensive player and minimize his effectiveness, that’d be a greater indictment of the coaching staffs’ capabilities than anything that happened on the field last year.
It's an interesting subject
New England’s 3-4, which they still run most of the time, has Phat Pat sized defensive linemen. The Giants linebackers are beasts and trained very well.
Although I think we could eventually make the switch to 3-4, I’m more inclined to think making a switch in the backfield is more important. The Tampa-2 we’ve run has been awful, even when we are healthy…
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 24, 2012 2:22 PM CST reply actions
New England's current base defense
is 4-3.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Personnel over Scheme
I think the issue is our personnel more than our scheme. We had the best run defense in the league for years with the 4-3, and it served us well in the pass game when Cedric and Antoine were healthy and Darren Sharper was making plays down the field. Its easy to question the scheme after an injury and bad luck filled season like we had, but I don’t think switching to the 3-4 solves any of our core defensive problems. Add that to the fact that it would upset Jared Allen, and it just doesn’t seem like a realistic or good idea.
Getting some linebackers who can cover, a young run-stopping DT in the draft, and some playmakers in the defensive backfield (or getting Cook back and switching Antoine to SS) would do far more for our defense than a scheme switch.
I’ll throw an unpopular opinion out there: I think we should absolutely bring back Cedric for another year. He had developed into a great corner before his injuries, and its easy to forget this was his first year back from TWO CONSECUTIVE ACL tears. Most surgeons say it takes a full year to come back to full from just one of those injuries. He had two, and looked like a different player (compared to the rest of the season) in the last two games of the year. Surgeons also often say that the second year after such injuries, players come back better than ever (think Wes Welker). If Cedric were to return to his previous form and Chris Cook got over his troubles and was back on the team, one of our biggest areas of weakness would suddenly be a position of strength. It would allow us to concentrate on the rest of the defense, as well as OL and WR in the draft.
Sorry for the wall of text – what do you guys think?
by DMacAD on Jan 24, 2012 6:00 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
interesting. i have heard all over that it is usually the 2nd year after a player has knee surgery that he steps his game back to the levels at which he previously was. i don’t see what the risk is in bringing back griffen for another year…i mean, our secondary is such a dumpster fire anyways, if he can rebound and be effective again why not. that said, we still need to bring in fresh/young blood for our defense, and secondary should absolutely be a priority in the draft this year
Wishful thinking
Sounds great but who knows if ced comes back to preinjury form? I’d give it a shot but wouldn’t depend on it happening so I would still address this position in the offseason.
I think cook could come back and play well as long as his heads in the game. There is no excuse for what he did but i would give him a second chance. I would try to sign him to a cheap(er) contract to minimize the risks though, if he doesn’t sign on the cheap…peace.
by reebs on Jan 24, 2012 7:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree and rec'd.
At least back in training camp to see if an off season has helped him return to speed. And hopefully Cook’s future will be known by then so if we is out of jail or somehow acquitted the I think its a good idea to look at him again.
I don't think Cedric will be back
He apparently left after this season ended by throwing all his stuff in a garbage bag and storming out of there, he obviously does not expect to return.
"You can write articles and do whatever you want, you can break down every player. Good, bad or ugly. But we just aren't good enough as a team, as a group. Offensively, defensively and special teams, from the No. 1 on the roster to the last man on the roster. We just aren't good enough. It's as simple as that." - Chad Greenway
by Grape Drank on Jan 25, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
What better way to showcase our lack of depth at linebacker?
Play with more of them on the field! Excellent!
This year wasn't the time to make the switch anyway
I’m no fan of the 3-4, but the hardest thing for the Chiefs in the past 10 years was finding personnel (mostly at DT) for their (former, pre-Pioli)) 4-3 scheme. The Vikings have scouted and coached the 4-3 DLmen very well for a long time, so I would hope that they would stick with it unless they are drafting the year after K Williams retires and have all the right players were to fall to them to justify a switch to the 3-4. I doubt that they will do it, and I hope that they won’t.
3-4 requires very specific personnel, personnel that are in high demand these days
Our front 7 is not a good fit for a 3-4. Everson Griffen would be a terror in a 3-4 as a rush linebacker. Allen could do ok, since he’s just a baller, but it wouldn’t be pretty and he wouldn’t be nearly as effective as he is in a 4-3. Williams could play the 5, though it’s hardly an ideal use of a player with his pass rushing skills. Ballard would probably be a better fit at the 5, but he’s also more of a pass rusher. Henderson could be a functional ILB, but he’s getting old. That’s about it. Our other LB’s are undersized and we have no NT.
I think we’ll be ok. The defense looked much worse than it really was because of all the injuries in the secondary. Not saying we don’t need help, just that we’re not as far away as it looked.
need 3 allens for 3-4
Yes it would be nice to have a extra person in the secondary but.They would not get to the qb.and they would not be able to stop the run.
I've been a fan since 1971
Page, Eller, Marshall, Larson; Doleman, Millard, Thomas, Noga. Can’t imagine the Vikings running a 3-4. hope they never do
keep the 4-3
I’m a big fan of Griffen. We need to stick with the 4-3, but drop Griffen into coverage more often. Dude can play anywhere on the line and can drop back into coverage from anywhere on the line. He’s pro-bowl material within the next 2 years – just needs to stay on the field by rotating from de to dt to olb to ss. Oh, and put him in K-sauce’s position in the backfield.
They 'could' switch to a 3-4 anyway
Not that I think it would be a good idea.
puts on flame retardant suit
I’m pretty sure Allen would fetch more in trade than what was given for him several seasons ago. Trading both Allen and KWill could provide the missing pieces pieces to the 3-4 fron 7 that are missing now.
I think they should stick with the 4-3 defense, but I also think that they should move away from the Tampa2 coverage scheme by mixing in a lot more zone blitzes from the defensive backfield.
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