In the Vikings WAR room 2012
by chatter on Jan 3, 2012 12:39 PM CST
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PrintAs the season comes to a close, we all begin to ponder what the off-season holds. Will we get our hands on some top level free agents? What will we draft? How is Adrian Peterson and what does his future hold? Is Christian Ponder made to handle the rigors of NFL life, or will he be injury/concussion prone with a talent deprivated offensive line to protect him?
I believe it will be difficult to attract any upper eschelon talent to Minnesota via free agency. First off, unless you like the outdoors, there are warmer places to live. The stadium is not desirable to play in and the team is in limbo right now. That being said, there's always hope. With personable talent like Jared Allen and Adrian Peterson, we have a chance. I believe the Vikings could be a winning team as soon as next year with a couple free agent signings and a smart draft.
The Vikings have many important decisions to make in regards to personnel and scheme. This will greatly affect the draft.
Many people say draft Kalil. He will probably not be available unless the Rams trade the #2 pick, as i believe they would take kalil, even though they have been OL heavy in the last two drafts. I would rather take adams out of ohio state or even potter out of boise state. The might not be as good, but they are both good, athletic players, an upgrade and could be had in the second, or possibly Potter might slide to the 3rd round(that would be a steal).
Others say draft Claiborne. He doesn't fit the Vikings scheme at all. His strength is man to man, which we
almost never play due to lack of secondary talent. unless you are willing to trade for another cover corner or draft a second corner next year, don't do it. Stephon Gilmore, a junior out of south carolina, is an excellent zone cover man with an eye for the pick and great open field tackling skills. He should be available in the second round. This frees up our first round pick to trade if RG3 is available and we can get a minor ransom.
Strong safety Barron out of alabama has an eye for the ball and is a big time tackler with some real pop. He is a little slow, but has great instinct. If he fell to the second round, he would be a steal. He will probably go to the Jets in the first, but a guy can dream. If the Vikings are able to trade their first round pick for a later first and multiple other picks, this might be a bonus pick.
At WR I like Nick toon out of wisconsin. He has good size, good hands, and he might stretch the field with a 40 time of 4.52 ( Blackmon's 40 is 4.55), he is a threat and could be had by a late second round pick or a absolute steal in the third. Another WR i would love to gamble on is Lewis out of East Carolina. Good size, same 40 as Toon. He has had some injury problems, but could possibly be had in the 6th round. That is a gamble i'm willing to take for the upside of a Sidney Rice.
An upgrade at RG could be had in the third or possibly fourth round in Kevin Zietler out of wisconsin. He is one of the best interior linemen in the country with his long arms, strength, experience, and toughness. He could start at right guard and be the successor to Hutch at left guard.
Riddled with injuries, including the neck, could make Tyler Nielsen out of Iowa a steal. He is a legitimate 3rd rounder, but could slide. I like him in the 4th and love him in the 5th.
As for running back, we look set. I, however, am not convinced that AP will make a speedy recovery and Gerhart just doesn't have the burst to make things happen with an o-line that has difficulty creating holes. I would actually like to see the Vikes take a back in the mid to late rounds if someone slides and is a good value. I would take Ball out of wisconsin in the third or later, and i would take Meggett out of maryland in the 5th or later. Meggett has an NFL pedigree. His father Dave, played for the Giants alongside otis anderson.
If we get extra picks, I would love to get Thompson out of Clemson to play DT. He is an absolute beast. We need to upgrade the interior line with an aging Kevin Williams and take pressure off of Jared Allen. Thompson can generate a pass rush and tackle the runner. We could get back to stopping the run. Although we need offensive linemen more, and everyone seems to think kalil is a can't miss, I wish the Vikings would take this guy in the first by trading down and acquiring more picks. Adams, Potter, and Zietler are all 2-3 round picks and i like all 3.
Now it's time to put yourself in the Vikings WAR room on draft day and make the picks that will transform the Purple and Gold's future for years to come. Bring your best board and explain why and how you got there.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Nice post. Here's one thing to keep in mind regarding Claiborne
Others say draft Claiborne. He doesn’t fit the Vikings scheme at all. His strength is man to man, which we almost never play due to lack of secondary talent. unless you are willing to trade for another cover corner or draft a second corner next year, don’t do it.
I’m pretty sure that Cook was drafted as a cover corner. Spielman commented early this season that Cook was drafted in order to cover Megatron in Detroit. I can’t stand the Vikings version of the zone. I think they use it because, as you say, the secondary is weak. Let’s go get our cover corners and start playing like a team that can make a QB nervous every now and then. I think Claiborne, Cook and Sapp would be a good start. Who knows what’ll happen with Cook, but if he’s back, I think that could be a pretty good set of cornerbacks through to the nickle position. Add Sherel at dime, and I think you’ve got a good set.
Still, I hope we get Kalil with our first pick. Claiborne would be my distant 2nd choice.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
If I were GM
I would be willing to entertain trade offers in the first round, including offers to trade up. Mark is the only poster that has said that he would trade up for Luck and I agree with him. I am sold on Luck. I would trade Ponder for a 2nd-3rd rounder and cut my loses, starting over with Luck. If that were not possible I would have to see what the Rams do at #2. If they take Kalil then I am trading down but not out of the top 10. I would consider Morris Claiborne and Jonathan Martin as nice consolation prizes. I would not draft Iowa’s Reiff in the top 10.
Second round I would go BPA but hope to improve the secondary. Chase Minnifield would be my preferred choice, although Gilmore would have my attention if he were available. Obviously if Claiborne was the first round pick then I’d have to look at Oline and linebacker in the 2nd. Perhaps Osemele or Hightower.
3rd round I would go BPA. But this would be the latest round that I would address oline or secondary in terms of trying to find a starter. Potter could spark my interest as replacement for Loadholt, but I doubt the FO is ready to move Phil. Vandy’s Casey Hayward has been impressive for 2 seasons.
4th round I am probably thinking linebacker, safety or DT.
5th round I am thinking change of pace, 3rd down back. Maybe Cincy’s Pead.
No 6th.
7th looking for depth at LB, DB, DL or WR.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Like the post
however, I actually think that the Vikes have found their “change of pace” back with Harvin. Between Peterson, Gerhart, Harvin all getting touches. I think it would be a wasted pick to try to get another RB into the fold, as there would only be 3-5 touches for him per game after Peterson returns
Love this idea
I have been advocating to get Harvin 5-6 touches out of the backfield and 4-6 passes out of the backfield ala Marshall Faulk. Just not sure Peterson will be the same guy with the same change of direction burst that he had before. Lets hope he does, but we NEED to get a effective running game to open up the passing for a depleted recieving corp from somewhere.
Thing is
As we saw against chicago, depth is needed at every position. I agree that the Vikes should continue to get Percy the ball in a variety of ways, but I still think the team could use a 3rd down back. That way you have Percy and a pass catching threat out of the backfield on the field at the same time. More options.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Todman anyone?
Frazier said he was brought in for that very fact; change of pace back and help in the return game. He has AP’s speed and was an able blocker in pass protection in college.
forgot about him
be interesting to see if he makes the squad.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Does he need to after being poached off a practice squad?
What rules apply for end of season PS call ups?
What he means is will he make the roster next year
Just because he was signed to the roster doesn’t mean he is a shoe to make it next year, he’ll still have to earn it.
Yes but during the season any team that takes a player off the PS of another team
must suit him up for at least 3 games
Forgot about that, they did give Todman a 3 year contract
I wonder if the 3 game suit up carries over?
Let's hope Frazier...
Is right about this guy. Can he catch a pass? Speed doesn’t mean much on it’s own. Just ask Troy Williamson. Blocking and catching ability out of the backfield sounds good!
I agree, Kalil or trade down at #2.
heck Cleveland has the #4 pick, if they want RGIII maybe we can get their 1st and 3rd or something to just drop down 1 spot and get our pick anyway (since hopefully we will not be drafting RGIII)
One problem
we’d have to convince them we would draft Griffin, and I think that would be hard to do
by Zach_Bodenner on Jan 3, 2012 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
you draft him if you have to...
…you will get calls to trade for him before the next pick is selected.
No we convice them that other teams are offering the sun, moon, and stars for him
Then we get both 1st rounders from Cleveland for him and we only move down one spot.
No we don't
we need to convince other teams that there is interest from other teams for him, not from ours. You call CLE and say you talked to seattle, and then you call seattle and say you talked to CLE. then you let the price way begin
The Rams
will be doing this about 10 minutes before us. They could use a few extra draft picks too. They’ll probably get some offer they’d be foolish to turn down and trade back to Cleveland’s spot, then scoop up either Blackmon or Kalil, depending on who we choose.
That #2 spot would’ve been awesome for getting picks and a BPA/Need player.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Jan 4, 2012 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
i'm not so sure Cleveland is in desperate need for RG3
they could just sit tight and scoop up Richardson, or Blackmon, or Coples… hell, maybe if RG3 falls to them they’ll draft him… but i don’t know if they’ll trade away two 1st rdrs considering they have a bit of rebuilding to do themselves.
we are probably sitting at the better spot for a trade at #3.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
We don't have to SAY a word...
if they don’t know that other teams are gonna be looking to trade up already, we might be able trade them a bridge and a bag of magic beans!!
nice post
i really think that Luck has been so hyped that it will take a lot to get him and like any player, he could get hurt. It’s a lot to gamble on one guy. Look at what Matt Flynn did with a great o-line and some receivers for Green Bay. I will stick with Ponder and draft an o-line before going after our Franchise QB.
In that case, let's give up our #1 pick for Mike McCarthy.
:-)
I only half jest.
"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
If we had a chance at Luck I would go for it.
However, I just don’t see that happening. I do think we have a solid chance at Kalil as the Rams have dropped some high picks on tackle the last two years. I also think we have a good chance at trading out for RGIII. Since the Browns are at our heals we’re the last chance teams have to pick him up. I think they’ll let him slide past the Rams then try and pick him up from the Vikes figuring we’ll at least try Ponder out for another year.
I would like Kalil, Claibourne, but we have a lot of people leaving this year…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
As GM I would...
1st scenario: #1 Luck, #2 RGIII, #3 Vikings take Kalil
2nd scenario: #1 Luck, #2 Kalil, #3 No trade partners – Vikings take Claiborne
3rd scenario: #1 Luck, #2 Kalil, #3 trade with Wash – Vikings take Martin
4th scenario: #1 Luck, #2 Kalil, #3 trade with Cleve – Vikings take Martin
We cannot mess around and neglect our O-line anymore, any pick passed #3 with Kalil off the board we take Johnathan Martin LT Stanford. I will only take Claiborne if we cannot find a trade partner at #3 but if RGIII is still on the board believe me we will have ton of offers and we will have to go through them quickly to figure out which best helps us. I would not want to drop to far back and miss out on Martin, not unless we get a boat load of picks and we are still able to at least get Reiff. One thing is we need to draft at least three starters in this draft, who will play right away and 3-4 solid contributers and possible starters down the road. We will have up to possibly 12 draft picks and 8 will have to be used on defense 2 CB’s,2 S’s,3 LB’s, and a NT and who can help on ST’s.
Ok we have 17 FA’s to be; We only re-sign Guion and Rosenfels all the rest can walk. I cut veterans Griffin CB and Hutch LG, and restucture KWill and extend his contract, restructure Winfield, and Jared. With the cash we now have, overpay for Bowe WR and Griffin S ( so that we can get them) and sign Harvin longterm. My two cents
All good points
The only thing I’d change is the part of trading out and missing on Martin, in that case I would take DeCastro over Reiff. And I’d also resign Shank.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
why does everyone keep wanting DeCastro??
we desperately need OT help:
Charlie Johnson (awful, belongs on the inside of the line)
Phil Loadholt (statistically worse than CJohnson, and in reality might actually be worse)
Patrick Brown (eeeeyeah…)
DeMarcus Love (completely unknown, actually projected at OG going into the draft)
even if Hutch and Herrera don’t come back, believe it or not, we actually aren’t that bad at OG:
(Charlie Johnson)
(DeMarcus Love…??)
Fusco
Berger
i’m not opposed to Zeitler in the early 3rd, but CJohnson could actually do quite well at OG, and Zeitler/Fusco/Berger/(Love)… take your pick on the other side of Sully.
assuming Reiff declares, he’ll raise eyebrows at the combine and be a lock for a top 10 pick (if he isn’t already). in a trade back scenario, he is the guy to target, IMHO.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I think you answered your own question
even if Hutch and Herrera don’t come back, believe it or not, we actually aren’t that bad at OG:
(Charlie Johnson)
(DeMarcus Love…??)
Fusco
Berger
In this scenario you are proposing that we replace 2 starters with complete unknowns. We don’t know that Charlie Johnson will be effective at guard. You wrote yourself that Love is a complete unknown. Fusco and Berger saw limited action with mixed results.
DeCastro will be a top 15 pick. That’s pretty good considering he plays guard. I personally would rather take the top guard than the 3rd rated offensive tackle. Especially when DeCastro has perennial pro bowl potential. I think Reiff has a lot of flaws in his game. He has unspectacular footwork. He struggles against the bull rush. His lower body strength is unimpressive for a LT. Just my opinion.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
how are you making any sense...??
We don’t know that Charlie Johnson will be effective at guard.
and we don’t know that DeCastro will be, either. weird.
don’t be argumentative just to be argumentative — CJohnson can be effective on the inside of the line, at least enough so to be a starter. and the entire point was one of the other two or three would most certainly be effective enough to hold down the other OG spot — especially considering Berger has done a fine job as a replacement this season already.
DeCastro will be a top 15 pick because this is an EXTREMELY weak draft class. not to mention b/c of the new CBA, OG’s actually have a shot at cracking the top 20 with ease — don’t you realize that those two points are the entire reason he’s even projected as high as he is??
take everything into account and don’t buy into the hype — we have SEVERAL needs above OG. it’s an unnecessary pick in the 1st rd for this team in 2012.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
DeCastro plays guard at a high level in a pro style offense
Charlie Johnson isn’t that good of a football player. It’s just false hope to think that moving a weak player to another position will make things better.
DeCastro is a top 15 pick because he is THAT good.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
we'll agree to disagree on that point
it’s nothing against DeCastro, he’s a fantastic OG prospect — but a few years ago in pretty much any other draft, he would not have cracked the Top 20 b/c of the strength of the draft class and $$.
regardless, OG still isn’t even close to a priority for this team in 2012 — no sense in using anything higher than a 3rd on a Guard for this draft (in my eyes, anyway).
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
The fact that he is looked at as a top 10 pick as a GUARD
is huge! Guards very rarely ever go above the first half of Rd1 and usually in the later rounds. You have to be EXTREMELY talented as a guard to go above 15
you missed where i said:
DeCastro will be a top 15 pick because this is an EXTREMELY weak draft class. not to mention b/c of the new CBA, OG’s actually have a shot at cracking the top 20 with ease
like i said, nothing against DeCastro, but there are several factors contributing to his projected draft position outside of his talent alone.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Well he is being largely touted as one of the best guards since Hutch came out
So i would say he is pretty good and that has nothing to do with projected draft position or a weak draft. He would be a mid first round pick in the best of draft classes
I must admit, i like the look of DeCastro
but i agree that if we get the upgrade we require at LT then we will be more than servicable at the interior positions. Sullivan is set at C and Hutch may still return. Berger has been useful and i think Fusco has a future in the team.
Johnson could prove to be an above average Guard with recent reviews of his play saying that he only really struggles on the edge with speed rushes.
with the way the draft board is unfolding it looks like we could be in a good position to shore up at least 2 positions out of WR / OT / CB in the first 2 rounds. those should be our priority
by Scottish Viking on Jan 4, 2012 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
i would swap WR for LB
but yes, completely agreed.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
2 things
1. While I agree that LT is our biggest position of need, I think the oline in general is our biggest area of need.
2. DeCastro is higher on my board than Reiff. It’s really just that simple. as far as olinemen go, I have them rated Kaili, Martin, DeCastro, Reiff. Nothing personal, that’s just the way I see it.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
I may switch Martin and Reiff, But your way of thinking is correct
If we drafted Decastro after trading back a few places instead of an OT, I would still be supremely happy as that actually helps out our running game more.
...and our QB's continue to get pancaked from the edges.
what’s a better combo:
DeCastro and Zebrie Sanders
or
Reiff and Kevin Zeitler
…??
for me, it’s Reiff/Zeitler, and it isn’t even close.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
i wouldn't
we need to build this line with young players (i.e. not 33-yrs old) who can protect Ponder and/or Webb for years to come — better to build it from the outside-in, not inside-out.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Not true
Next year will actually be a better year for OTs in terms of OT depth. Get the best guard coming out in a while this year and a just as good if not better OT next year and the line will be just as good if not better
It doesnt matter the order you take, you get the best available talent
regardless of position on the O-line and over time you get a complete line
Only if it's top tier talent, otherwise I would set a priority list.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
That was obviously my whole point
Getting the best rated guard this year and a top tackle next year, is not any worse than doing it the other way around. Either way they both need to be fixed and it is not going to happen all in one year
i'm clearly not going to change your mind
but it doesn’t make sense to me to say, “oh, let’s just wait to draft at top prospect and what is arguably the weakest position on our team until NEXT year.”
i could swallow your argument a lot better if you were saying draft Kalil/Martin/Reiff, then make a play for Carl Nicks at OG in FA. he’s still young at 26, and then next year we wouldn’t have to worry about OT or OG.
but you’re saying we should trade for Matt Light. eeeeyeah.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
No I said we could
If it ment getting the best OG coming out of the last handful of drafts and getting the best OT coming out next year. I would take that in a heart beat.
I was on the other guy's side of the arguement
until I saw that first point. That hit the nail on the head. The O-line is so crappy we need all the help we can get. Yes, the best G in the draft would totally be worth it. Especially if its with, say, the 8th pick instead of the 4th.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Jan 4, 2012 8:06 PM CST up reply actions
everyone keeps saying the OLine sucks...
but can anyone argue how drafting an OG with our 1st rd pick will make the line better than drafting an OT…??
the problem isn’t in the middle of the line — it’s on the outside.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
But you need to be able to understand looking for the future. YOU cant seem to look past one year
THe best OG plus the best OT next year is 1 million times better than one of the top 3 OTs this year
see, but i think we have the depth at OG
i’d rather draft a combo of Kalil/Reiff, then maybe a guy like Adcock in the 2nd/3rd to play behind (or challenge) Loadholt.
at OG, i think Herrera is gone, Hutch maybe stays if he can restructure — but, if they’re both gone, CJohnson moves inside and then Love/Berger/Fusco battle it out on the other side.
again, just a difference of opinion, and i completely understand what you’re saying — but OT is in such shambles, our depth chart is literally two guys who are better suited playing OG (CJohnson and Love), a player who never developed in pass protection (Loadholt), and PBrown who, well, yeah.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Hutch is going to retire probably or be cut
He is not worth 7 mil. So our two starting OGs are gone. The rest are career backup who could not even get into the line-up this year with all the injuries etc… So no, we need to get an OG just as badly as an OT. Also, OGs are more important in Run blocking and if we are going to still be rallying around AD for our offense we need those first.
But all this is moot if we can get Kalil.
My whole point revolves around Kaili being gone. On my board DeCastro is right up there if not ahead of Martin and Reiff.
So, DeCastro plus an addition 1st or 2nd this year
is better than just getting an OT (whose not Kalil) this year. 2013 is going to be one of the best years for OTs in the draft in a along time. D.J. Fluker, Jake Matthews, Barrett Jones, Chris Faulk, Seantrel Henderson, Could all easily for in the first round next year if they come out
Because DeCastro is a stud
He just may be the best O-lineman in the draft, I would not be surprised in the least if he is drafted in or around the top ten, and highest OG ever taken.
who cares if OG isn't a pressing need for this team??
we have several holes to fill, including OT, CB, S, LB, and WR — all of which are a higher priority over OG. again, i ask, are you honestly considering DeCastro over any player at any of those positions?? what other argument is there besides, “he’s a stud”…??
and highest OG ever taken.
pretty sure there have been several OGs taken in the top 10 before. perhaps my memory deceives me.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Nope none taken
Most OG’s taken early go in the early 20’s, Hutch was taken #17 which was considered high at the time. Randel McDaniel was #19 even though he was one of the highest rated pllayers in the draft. I say DeCastro will go high because of the new CBA but also because he can flat out play. He dominated all of his competition this year including the highly regarded DT from Washington, don’t know how to spell his name. OG may not be a “pressing need” but it is still a need and when you can fill it with top talent you do it. Now all this is only if we trade down and miss out on Martin OT.
If you can tell me of an OG taken in the top ten I’d like to know.
you forget about Reiff
Now all this is only if we trade down and miss out on Martin OT.
Reiff will, mark my words, rival Martin for the consensus #2 OT spot — Martin is not an automatic pick for the 2nd best OT prospect in this draft.
If you can tell me of an OG taken in the top ten I’d like to know.
admittedly my memory deceived me slightly, though i’d like to think college OT’s taken inside the top 10 (i.e. Leonard Davis) who start and ultimately end up at OG count in this circumstance. of course, i recognize how you could argue in the contrary.
either way, my main point was that our main need on the OLine was at Tackle, not Guard.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
you're exactly right.
The new CBA will re-define where linemen go. Since the pay will be less, they become “affordable” in the top ten. QB’s also become less risky, due to less guaranteed dollars upfront, so teams will be willing to trade up for a Tannehill and certainly for Luck or RG3. It’s hard to interpret the recent colts gm firing, but, Don’t be shocked if colts trade down to take RG3. He fits their system better with their depleted line and they could rack up lots of valuable picks by trading down to get the best talent in the draft in RG3. Plus, he would be humble enough to sit behind Manning for a year to see what he has left before attempting to trade him, as RG3 comes from a military family and is said to be an intelligent young man and great person. Clearly, Luck doesn’t want to go ti indy and may flat out refuse.
I only re-sign Shank if he takes a team discount
I do not want to hurt the development of Rudolph, or any other youngsters we may sign or draft at TE. I really like Shuler, he’s a great blocker and can catch in traffic, and he also played in a two TE set offense at Penn St, with him being the blocking/possession TE.
I think he would
He’s a loyal teammate. And he got his shot to be a starter in Minnesota. I think he would give a discount to stay.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
People think that caliborne is a bit over rated
he has not played much top competition. Also, this is a pretty deep CB draft, I think martin/Kalil/Reiff plus CB in rd 2 gives the team more value than claiborne, as the OT talent drops off drastically after those three.
But he took Claiborne in his 2nd scenario.
So it would follow that he would take him in the 3rd scenario since he would still be available.
I took Martin over Claiborne #4 because of need
I took Claiborne over Martin at #3 because of value. I have Martin ranked in the #5-7 range, and I have Claiborne in the #3-4 range.
If Bowe is available....
I wish he would come here. We are not much worse than KC, but he was drafted by them. He might want a better team/warmer climate city to play in. In other words, if he doesn’t re-sign with kc, he probably wouldn’t come here. That being said, he is a good blocker in the run game and has the ability to get open on the edge, not just on crossing routes like the rest of our recievers. He is a real weapon.
He has hands troubles, though
We already have a reciever who drops passes one play and looks spectacular on another. His name is Aromashodu. I don’t know if a second target like that would be good for Ponder. Two-shakey WRs isn’t what we need.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Jan 4, 2012 8:09 PM CST up reply actions
I'll pass on Luck
Yes, I said it. He lacks a killer instinct.
Pass.
I’ll take Kalil or Jonathan Martin or Rieff. Trade down if value is to be had.
You also wanted to draft Jimmy Clausen if I remember correctly
Luck is as good as advertised.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Wow you're mean!
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
interesting fact from bowl game
I think Luck completed 27 of 31 passes. That’s pretty solid. How many were done in less than 4 seconds?
Killer instinct, in my book, is team chemistry and synergy. Both Ponder and Webb have it. They each have earned a game ball. Combine it with Peterson, Harvin and the rest coming together – that’s killer. We know we can be so much better. The play calling might have been limiting or strange or even ultra conservative at times. The way the season was going for the Vikings, they could afford to mess around. It wasn’t necessary to ‘turn on the killer instinct’ but when the Vikings did – they were scary. Carolina, 1st Green Bay Game, Detroit and Washington were great examples. The last game against Chicago was nothing more of two monster trucks trying to out idle each other for a Loss.
A random off topic point to ponder… What I don’t get with current NFL scheduling – why does it occur to play the same team twice the span of 4 weeks? That happened to us against Green Bay. A span of at least 6 weeks or more would be better.
by VikesFanSince1967 on Jan 4, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
I think you ar ejust too bummed that we won't be able to draft him anyway.
So you are acting indifferent. Luck is the real deal. Ther is no way I’d pass on him.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
Have to trade the 1st round pick
We are in a perfect position. RG3 will be in high demand. I imagine our best chance is to trade with Cleveland since they have those two first round picks. I could also see a scenario where we begin to use the Patriots strategy and keep trading and accumulating picks. For instance. Trading down from #3 to # 4 and getting an additional 1st rounder from Cleveland. Then trading down with Miami or Washington and gaining a 2nd rounder there too. This would give us 2 first round picks, and two seconds. That is how you build a franchise quickly…
As for draft picks, I love RG3 but I can’t see drafting him. I know we need O line help, but free agency can bring experienced guys who can buy us a year or two. I’d like to get Blackmon. Can you start to see what our O would be like with Peterson. Harvin, Blackmon? Now you demand coverage and Peterson starts to run against 7 in the box. That helps our O line a bit.
If we trade with Cleveland, they're taking RG3
Why would Miami or Washington want to trade after the fact? They all want RG3.
I’d rather draft Kalil or Martin and go after Bowe or Garcon in FA. Rookie linemen can impact the game quicker than WR’s in most cases.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
you're targeting the wrong WRs via FA
KC and Indy will not (emphasis) will not let Bowe or Garcon go.
realistic options include Stevie Johnson, Robert Meachem or maybe Reggie Wayne (far more realistic than Garcon).
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I do not know why you say this
They have not extended them and they will be free agents come March. This is the same argument people said about Rice. The Vikings will not let him go. And when he hit free agency, he was gone. But you could be right though.
I just do not understand the logic of front offices that do business like this.
There is more to keeping a player happy than giving him a new contract. They want to know you want them. Waiting until the clock strikes midnight is not really showing the player much love IMO. If that player reaches free agency then he is going to see what other teams have to offer before going back to his old team.
It is very strange to allow a player who you want to keep, hit free agency. I am having trouble figuring out how that shows you want them or as you put it, “will not let them go”.
What is stopping them from going? I suppose the team still has time to give them new contracts but I do not see it happening. They could possibly franchise tagged. Bowe definitely is player KC may tag. They also have Brandon Carr to consider though. Garcon is not getting any tag. Well, maybe he will now if the Polian’s are out. Maybe Irsay is running the team himself. I predict no tag for Garcon.
the tag is one aspect, plus the situations are very different
the tag is a point in and of itself, so i don’t really need to elaborate on that.
the other point is, many teams were hesitant to make extensions prior to this season b/c of the new CBA — they were better off waiting until this offseason to make their deals, which i assume they will, considering said WRs are young playmakers that they most assuredly would not let go.
the major difference between Garcon/Bowe and Rice is, Rice had (has) a hip situation that would make an organization question his long-term sustainability. (not to mention his hold out that conveniently eventually led to required surgery…).
very different circumstances, indeed.
i hope, for our sake, KC uses the tag on Bowe — which would lead Carr to FA, and possibly right into our hands. (i know you wouldn’t mind this, either!!)
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I understand your point
I just do not like the phrase “let them go”. There is no letting of anything. They can make an offer to the player and that is all. If the player wants it then he can sign it.
I just do not think that is how a good front office should do business and I do not buy into the new CBA being some kind of detriment that tied teams hands because they were too stupid to know the likely terms of the new CBA. To me that is a bunch of BS and just a way for the sissies in the front office to not tell the truth.
Plenty of teams gave players they wanted to keep new deals before the new CBA was hashed out. KC hooked up Jamaal Charles and Derrick Johnson. Dallas hooked up Miles Austin. San Fran hooked up Patrick Willis. Philly gave Kevin Kolb a two year deal to make sure they did not lose him for nothing. It cost them 12 mil but the second year was paid by Arizona.
Heck, the Vikings tried to sign Greenway right before the league year ended last March and before the lockout. So even they were not worried about the new CBA.
This is my biggest problem with the way the Vikings handled the Rice situation. They should have done the same as Philly and gave him a short two year deal for about 10 to 12 mil. Considering he was only going to get 600K in 20102 he most likely would have accepted a deal like that. And the Vikings could have insisted he get the surgery instead of risking the natural healing process not working. But most of all they would have been able to trade him if they felt like it and would have gotten a decent pick in return. For sure they would have gotten someone’s third round pick which is better than a compensatory.
Good front offices should not let players they want to keep get all the way up to the midnight hour before offering them a new deal.
Well some players want to see what's out there
So the team might respect their wishes. Also, I don’t think the team was hugely interested in keeping Rice here. (same with Rice I don’t think he really wanted to be a Viking either.)
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
True
but I would protect that 2nd round investment that happened to make the Pro Bowl. I would not want to lose him for nothing even if he did want to test the market.
I think they should have at least offered him a short deal to reward him for his Pro Bowl season and then have him in position to turn around and get a new deal within two years. They would have at least been able to see if he was a one year wonder or not. I think the money would have been a wise investment and a show of good faith to Rice. Then the Vikings would have had the ability to trade him.
But Seattle showed us exactly why we didn't want to pay the man his money
Rice has been injured/average for the past two season at best. I bet they are regretting giving him so much money now. He has been hurt in every season but one, and with his hip I would bet he is out of the league or irrelevant after 3-4 more years
i think he proved he WAS a one-yr wonder...
…courtesy of Favre having a career year at QB.
this season, Rice had only 32rec for 484yds and 2 TDs. he only played 9 games, so his durability is a factor (first his hip, now his shoulder).
i think we did offer Rice a deal, but it was nowhere near the $8mil/season he got from Seattle. he simply isn’t worth that.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I actually though i read somewhere
they did offer him a pretty good deal (like 6 Mil) to stay here, but I could be wrong. Thank god he did not take it, even that would be a huge overpayment
My biggest issue with the team and how they handle their successful draft picks
Is allowing them to leave and tender us nothing in return. We knew that Edwards and Rice no longer wanted to be on the team, you might as well have looked to trade either or both of them and picked up more than just a supplemental draft pick.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Exactly
You do not let players walk away for nothing but a possible complimentary pick when you can get higher in a trade.
As for Rice getting injured again, that has nothing to do with the Vikings trading him. They could have traded him once free agency began this year.
by MarkSP18 on Jan 4, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rice is a bad example
Because they waited to see if he could stay healthy and produce more than just one season before they could offer him a longer contract, and of course the whole hip thing threw everything out the window.
Rice is a very good example of what not to do.
You do not wait to see if he can stay healthy after he makes the Pro Bowl and plays great for the entire year. He got hurt in the NFCCG.
At that point he showed what he could do with a good QB. IMO, that is the time to do something to protect your investment especially with the uncapped year beginning in 2010.
Unfortunately for the Vikings, the CBA mess occurred when it did. So part of doing business should have made them pay Rice ahead of time with the uncertainty of him being able to stay healthy another year. Philly did it with their 2nd round pick Kevin Kolb. Heck the Vikings even gave Jimmy Kennedy a 2 year 6 mil deal and Benny Sapp a 2 year 4 mil deal in March of 2010. So why not Rice who contributed a hell of lot more than those two in 2009? Plus the Vikings managed to pay Favre an extra 4 mil (plus?) to come back in 2010. Yet Rice had to play for his 600K.
I do not know about you but that is BS. Bottom line is the Vikings blew it with Rice and Edwards. They should have paid Rice and traded Edwards. If Rice would have shown he was going to be injured more then the Vikings may have been able to trade him after they paid him. I would still love to have him on the team now. He would have helped out a lot this year. Yes he got hurt a few times in Seattle but that does not mean it would have happened here. Once you change something then everything else changes too thereafter.
we may not agree on the Rice part, but...
…i couldn’t are more w/ you regarding trading Edwards. they muffed on that big time.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Rice had a career threatening injury. It sucked for everyone.
I can’t blame the vikings for not re-signing Rice. As I recall, Rice was asking for a big contract and told the vikings to go screw, then he went shopping. The vikings apparently offered him a deal, but he didn’t want it. I would have been pissed if the Vikes signed him to the type of contract he got with Seattle. And look at the year he had. INJURED!!!
First it was his hip acting up, then it was some torn labrum in his shoulder, then it was some concussion, then they shut him down. Remember, he was injury prone in Minnesota before Favre got here. I think it a bad situation for the vikes, but I’m not down on them, because Rice chose to walk. He didn’t leave the Vikings with many options.
Edwards, they blew it.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
perhaps, but...
do you really want to target Stevie Johnson? There is a reason that Buffalo would let their most talented(or at least highest upside if he quits dropping passes) reciever walk. He is immature and is not a good team player. It’s hard to fix stupid. I hope we don’t end up with him.
Yes, he can play, he may drop some balls but he sure puts up points.
We have many sure handed targets in Rudolph, Harvin, Jenkins. We need a deep threat like him to keep defenses honest in their coverages
absolutely, i hope the Vikes target Stevie
and again, people keep talking like he drops passes every other throw. see my post here and take a look at all the big-name WRs who had more drops than Stevie Johnson. i think you’ll be surprised.
immaturity can be cured with a change of scenery. he’ll probably still create antics, but i think the players respect Frazier more than fans realize, and i’m sure Frazier could keep Stevie calm.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
If Frazier could get him to grow up...
seems like a big if, but then i would have to eat my words. I am still hoping to get Nick Toon in the draft. I like players you don’t have to “change” But you can’t have too much talent at wideout.
nothing wrong with eating words if/when that time comes
i’m eating crow on Everson Griffen — and it’s deeeeeeelicious.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
No divas or head cases
Steve Johnson may change his attitude but someone like Vincent Jackson, I am very leery about.
Because they both need a QB's
Did you see what happened this past year? QB’s go much higher than projected, especially when they start falling off the board. Under your scenario, RG3 and Luck gone, both Miami and Wash will want the next best QB available. Whether that person is worthy of the 4th pick in the draft or not. They both need QB’s more than anything.Landry Jones would likely be the next off the board. I could also see Wash going for Richardson the RB.
Also, no way does CLE give up #4 and #22 to move up one spot
We would maybe get their 3rd, 2nd at absolute best
Funny thing is...
…if they want RG3 they will have to. And the value chart makes it an even trade according to Schefter. Moving up one spot is a late first, early second round for a pick so high!
Incorrect, Pick #3 is worth 2,200 points. Pick #4 is worth 1800 and #22 is worth 780
Thats 2200 to 2580. The #36 pick is 540. So the #4 and #36 equals 2340, which is much closer.
well, if a bidding war ensues...
…Cleveland has the picks to trump just about any other offer.
but i agree — Cleveland won’t trade all that away to move up one spot. now, if they were picking at #7 or 8, i think that’d be a different story.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I agree, maybe even 6
but QB is not really a huge need for them. McCoy did just fine with what he had to work with. Plus, there will be a QB next year or three that come out and are just as good if not better. RGIII really only had one year
Cleveland's 2nd round pick is #37
So I think it evens out a little more on the trade value. On another note they are not happy with McCoy in Cleveland, and the Coaching staff wants RGIII, they have come out publicly about it and may even get in trouble for it since he had not declared yet when they said it.
Interesting!
Hadn’t heard that before. Could the league prevent cleveland from taking him?
i saw Shurmur said things like...
[paraphrasing], “he’s a tremendous talent”, “good QBs fit in any system”, comparing him to Cam Newton, yack yack.
did he actually come out and say he wanted RG3?? it could also be a smokescreen, ya never know.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Well then maybe we could force their two first rounders out of them
Especially if we can tell them another team is interested in giving us say a 1st and second this year and a first or second next year
that's really the only way the Browns would move up one spot
is if another team was set to offer a lot to trade up. and Holmgren is probably smart enough to call a bluff.
either way, though, i still don’t see it happening.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
A lot depends on how ATL does in the playoffs
The better they do the lower the pick goes, so I think and Holmgren came out saying that they are going to improve their offense through the draft and that McCoy would have competition for the starting QB job. To me that sounds like they are in the running for a trade to get RGIII.
1a and 1b
cleveland is high on RGIII but their second choice is Richardson…we have a trade partner either way. Best value for us is if RGIII is there but it won’t be too bad if someone else get him and they target Richardson. Tampa Bay would like him also. We won’t get both of Clevelands first rounders but one and then a 2nd or 3rd and we still get who we would have drafted. Kalil or Martin
similar approach to nmvikesfan.
1st round pick:
1 – if Kalil falls to us at #3, swap picks with Cleveland to allow them to ensure they get RGIII and select Kalil at #4, picking up and extra 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounder.
2 – if Kalil falls to us at #3 and Cleveland don’t bite then pick Kalil and be happy.
3 – if Kalil is gone (most likely scenario) then trade back to the highest bidder within the top 7 and draft Martin. (OL is a must)
2nd round:
BPA out of all the CB / S / WR / MLB / DT (applies to any extra 2nd rounders we may get via a trade)
3rd round:
BPA out of all the CB / S / WR / MLB / DT (applies to any extra 2nd rounders we may get via a trade) (remove any postion drafted in 2nd round from list)
4th round onwards:
BPA (apart from RB & QB)
bit of a mistake in the 3rd round:
should read – ‘(applies to any extra 3rd rounders we may get via a trade)’
by Scottish Viking on Jan 4, 2012 9:08 AM CST up reply actions
Kalil will go at two unless the Rams trade out
Why wouldn’t teams trade to the #2 pick to get RGIII? it makes no sense why they would go to #3 when another team could just trade up to #2 and take him. The Rams either want Kalil and take him at #2, or they trade down and we get Kalil at #3, No way do we get him at #5
Or, maybe, the Rams watched the Fiesta Bowl
and saw Blackmon just dominate the secondary. He had a pretty impressive game. I think they’d be willing to take Blackmon on the off-chance he turns into Calvin Johnson and let Saffold/Taylor get healthy for a better season this year.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Jan 4, 2012 8:14 PM CST up reply actions
I could see that with the Rams trading down to #4
With Cleveland knowing we want Kalil and they can then take Blackmon at #4.
Prolly this ^
If they grabbed Kalil it would the 3rd year in a row they used 1st round picks on OL.
and another year with nooooo wr threat they take Blacmon
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
lots of time ahead of us, the combine should shed light on it
the real interesting scenario would be if the Rams do take Blackmon, do we just take Kalil or still entertain trade down offers??
i’m so inclined to say the former, but if Washington made an offer (i.e. their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd or 4th) to trade up for RG3, there’s a chance Kalil would slip past Cleveland and TB and we still draft him at #6.
of course in that scenario, Cleveland takes Richardson or Coples (<—more likely), and TB takes Claiborne.
it may be a slim possibility, but talk about “best case scenario”… if Spielman could pull that off, i’d say we have a good GM.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
then again...
…i’m reading the ’Skins are drooling over Matt Flynn.
Free Agency can’t get here fast enough…!!
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
you know what would be funny...??
is if this happened:
swap picks with Cleveland to allow them to ensure they get RGIII…and then Cleveland turned around and re-traded down for an even bigger ransom than what they gave up.
not even sure if that’s allowed… but if anyone could pull it off, it would be Holmgren…
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I'm sure its allowed
it would just never work.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Jan 4, 2012 8:12 PM CST up reply actions
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