Report: Minnesota Vikings Will Interview Raheem Morris For "High-Level Defensive Position"
by Christopher Gates on Jan 5, 2012 10:26 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings 2011 Season
Email
PrintWell. . .this is an interesting little development.
Certainly didn't see this coming.
As Chris Mortensen's tweet says, the Washington Redskins are talking to Morris about becoming their defensive backs coach, which is the position he held with Tampa Bay before getting promoted to the head coach (more on that in a second). If the Vikings are interested in interviewing Morris for a "high-level defensive coaching position," I would have a hard time believing that it would be for anything but the defensive coordinator spot, where Fred Pagac has been a dead man walking for about two months, by all accounts.
Strangely, Morris has never been a defensive coordinator in the NFL before. He was supposed to take over as the Buccaneers' defensive coordinator going into the 2009 season, after then-DC Monte Kiffin announced late in 2008 that he would be leaving the Buccaneers to join his son, Lane, with the Tennessee Volunteers. However, in January of 2009, Tampa Bay fired Jon Gruden and, after a whole two weeks or so as the Buccaneers' defensive coordinator, Morris found himself promoted to the head coaching position.
This would signal to me that Leslie Frazier and company have no desire to move away from the "Tampa-2" defense that they've been running for quite a while now. Take that revelation however you wish.
103 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Huh
Certainly wasn’t a name I was expecting to see in the DC hunt. Looking at his past coaching history, he’s worked with DBs quite a bit so hopefully he whip our sorry secondary into shape. Teaching our LBs how to cover would be nice too.
If he’s hired of course.
It's not always about the Coaching Xs and Os
It’s about the Jimmies and the Joes
\m/
by Edgecrusher71 on Jan 6, 2012 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
While everyone has been hoping for Spags
I have been hoping this move would happen. We just finished a season where our defensive passer rating was second worst all-time (107) and when Morris was DB’s Coach in TB the pass D was #1 in the league. I think this would be a great coaching “change” for us because our two best players are 4-3 guys. I think we hire him because it helps us both out more than it would for Washington; our pass D gets fixed and he has a chance to revive his coaching career after that horrible end in TB this year.
DO IT!
I’ve always thought he was a good coach. Would love him as our DC.
SKOL VIKINGS!!!! Go Spurs Go!!!! Go Cubbies!!! Hook Em' Horns!!!!
by Mr.Cub22 on Jan 5, 2012 11:20 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Meh
It’s hard for me to get excited about the Tampa 2.
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Jan 5, 2012 11:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I never got this about coaches at any level except maybe 9 year olds.
I suffered this in High School and College. Had a coach at both levels in love with the idea of a system to run but we didn’t have the right personnel. Even worse we had awesome players for other systems to run. I remember in college we had an AWESOME throwing QB, great arm and great decision making but the previous years we had a great running threat QB and this new guy couldn’t run to save his life. So what did we do? We kept a system geared toward a running QB. It was sad to see this guys performance get worse and worse throughout the year, just beaten down by being a square peg being pushed into a circular hole.
\m/
by Edgecrusher71 on Jan 6, 2012 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Reminds me of my son's high school basketball team
The coach was a small dude, and always had his teams play small ball.
The year my son was a senior in his pretty small high school there were 6 guys over 6-5, all of whom could play, shoot, and dominate from wherever they were on the floor, but the coach ends up playing 4 younger outside shooting guards and one big guy.
What a miserably wasted season where they could easily have gone to state at their division level, just because the coach was too lazy to adapt.
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 6, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions
Would love this...
I actuallly am fully in favor of switching to the 3-4 (does anyone honestly believe Allen can’t still be a beast in the 3-4?) but I like Morris too and think he’d be really hungry still to get a HC gig.
and it's shortsighted of him to think so.
A good coordinator can convince him IMO. ex. Wade Phillips/Mario Williams.
Houston changed to a 3-4 this year with a stud rusher. And even though Williams was hurt most of the year they went from the worst defense in football to the best in 1 year.
And yes, I don’t expect us to get Wade Phillips here as our DC (he’s the best in the business IMO; I’ve always said I’d hire Wade Phillips as my DC and Norv Turner as my OC and appoint any one of us on this board as my HC; it wouldn’t matter) but Allen can be just fine in that scheme.
So you are saying.....
That you know better than J. Allen and K. Williams?
Not necessarily...
but players can get “comfortable”. Lots of players are shortsighted in terms of what they can do. Like I said, I think it just takes a good defensive coordinator (Crennel?) to relate to them and assure them that they will still properly utilize their strengths. The 3-4 gives the Vikings more options with guys like Allen and KW, not less. And I think they (and a lot of fans) don’t grasp that fully.
i dont think you are grasping that a full transition to 3-4...
…will take, at the very minimum, two seasons; most likely three. that’s getting the current personnel acquainted with it, plus drafting players to fit it.
just b/c it works for some teams doesnt mean it will work for us.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
by rj-b on Jan 6, 2012 1:16 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
The Vikings already have some of the personnel to play the 3-4 defense
If you check this chat replay you will see others who cover the Vikings that feel this way …
The Vikings have Brinkley who is better suited for a 3-4 defense …
http://thehuddlereport.com/Free/archive/2009DRAFT/PlayerProfiles/Jasper.Brinkley.htm
They have Greenway who can play inside and may be a better fit there.
They could resign Erin H if they wanted too. They have Robison and Griffen to play the OLB/DE spots.
They can play KWill and Ballard over the tackles and Ayodele in the middle. Obviously they would need to get more personnel to play these positions. They may resign Guion who has good size to play the 3-4 DE. They could make a play in free agency to get Calais Campbell. They could try and get an Aubrayo Franklin or Paul Soliai in free agency too.
The secondary already needs to be overhauled so that does not matter. They do not have far to go if they decide to switch. Besides if you check any rankings for LBs or DEs many are thought to be good fits in a 3-4 defense. For example at DE you have Devon Still, Billy Winn, Derek Wolfe, Jared Crick, Kendall Reyes, Logan Harrell, Kheeston Randall, Jake Bequette, etc all who would be good fits at the 3-4 DE spot.
They need a nose to take over for Ayodele. They need a couple more 3-4 DEs. They need a couple more 3-4 OLBs.
Most of all they would need a coach who knows how to run the 3-4 defense. This would be the key. But it can be done and since the Vikings will be rebuilding anyway, now is as good of a time as any if they wanted to make the switch.
However, Frazier stated in an article on Jan 4th
That as long as he is coach they will not be switching to a 3-4. He said that just because it is trendy and some teams are doing it does not mean it will work for every teams. Heck, GB was 32nd in the league in passing defense this year and that is the team everyone is using as an example to justify a switch.
even if that is the case, Mark...
the part where i said:
… getting the current personnel acquainted with it ……still applies.
not to mention, KWill is against the idea.
Jared Allen is against the idea (and the whole “trading JA” is as ludicrous as ever now, even if, yes, “his stock is as high as it will ever be”).
LF said it best when he said something along the lines of, just b/c it’s a fad and it’s working for some teams, that doesn’t mean it will work for us, or even that it’s in our interest to try.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
upgrading a Safety or two, and a new MLB...
…is a lot easier than overhauling your entire defensive system.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Problem #1
Is that there is only one position for Allen, Robison and Griffen to play.
Unless you want to run with two converted defensive ends at LB.
You should not want to run like that.
Robison, Allen and Griffen all fit well in the 3-4...
either as LB’s or DE’s.
This notion that it would take 2-3 years is flat-out crazy. Again, look at Houston; in ONE year they transformed from the worst defense in football to the best, with a minimal change in personnel.
As I said in the post I linked
I don’t see it. All three of those guys would be good in the rush backer spot. I don’t like either of them having to consistently cover against the pass, which they would have to do at the other OLB position. And thinking about it a bit more, I don’t like them having to play against the run in space either. Learning to make the read, take the right angle and take on a block in space are actually not simple things. So, yeah, I only see one linebacker spot available for those three guys.
Of course, yes, you could play them at DE. But that would be a total waste of their edge-rushing ability. And why pay an edge rusher to be a glorified DT?
Did Houston turn two edge rushing ends into backers to make the transition?
completely agree
not to mention, with Houston…
- Wade Phillips knows what he’s doing
- they had personnel (probably more than we do) who fit the system
- said personnel bought into what Phillips was selling
- they drafted Watt with their 1st rd pick
- they re-tooled their secondary with stout players
the only thing we can really do is the final point, and that’s if we’re lucky and FA DB’s want to come here. for every other point…
…it’s questionable whether or not a (smart) 3-4-minded DC is available;
…we may have ‘some’ personnel for the switch, but our best players sound like they won’t buy into it, which is a red-flag from the get-go;
…and, probably most importantly, we can’t afford to spend a 1st rd pick on a blue-chip front-7 player — OLine and Secondary must come first for us.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
by rj-b on Jan 6, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can see that you are a true believer.
Not saying that you are wrong, just that you see the possible upside and can’t understand why others don’t. I will leave you to your opinion.
Yes
I think Allen would be wasted. And we don’t have a nose. Or the linebackers.
And there isn’t really any point in changing. And finally, we are the Vikings, not some pansy AFC team with d-linemen who can only take up space.
by amiller92 on Jan 6, 2012 4:16 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Lol, rec
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 6, 2012 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
I'm really liking this attempt
I think Morris got a bad shake in Tampa this year and was wrongly fired. He would be a great addition to our coaching staff. Vikings sigh him, if the price is right and get it done.
Good Move
The strength of the Vikings defense is their defensive line. Their linebacker core is really thin. The Vikings have too many other holes to fill, to be considering a change in defensive philosophy. On top of that, two of their top defensive players prefer a 4-3. Where did all this talk of a change to a 3-4 originate anyway? Is this something the team was considering, or is it something the media has been pushing?
by vking1 on Jan 6, 2012 12:54 AM CST via mobile reply actions
it's both, and it's smart...
Tampa 2 is kind of starting to die out in its effectiveness. A 3-4 allows you to be much more flexible with your defense. Williams and Allen would both be quite good in a 3-4 IMO. And most of the rest of our front 7 players are more ideally suited to the 3-4 anyway. Ayodele is a perfect NT in a 3-4. Williams and Allen can both be effective as DE’s (Allen as a LB or DE in a 3/4). And Greenway/Griffen/Brinkley/Erin Henderson/Robison are all ideal 3-4 LB’s IMO. I think that fits our personnel much better personally.
and...
I think a big problem is that a lot of people just don’t seem to understand what changing to a 3-4 would entail. It’s not like you have to abandon what Allen does well; you strengthen it. It’s not like the Cowboys have Demarcus Ware dropping into coverage just because they’re in a 3-4.
According to this article,
Frazier did not say that.
http://www.twincities.com/ci_19685005
Frazier said the Vikings “maybe” have the personnel for the move but is cautious about changing.
“You don’t want to jump on the bandwagon purely because it’s popular in some other city, and they’ve had success,” Frazier said. “If it doesn’t fit what you do, you better do what fits you.”
That’s not quite what you said.
It’s at the very bottom if you want to check it out.
Why are we talking as if
The only 4-3 scheme is Tampa 2?
Apparently that's all Frazier thinks there is.
I kinda actually like Frazier even though most people don’t, but I really think he should think about moving away from the Tampa 2.
That discussion
Makes a lot more sense to me than the one we seem to be having about switching to 3-4.
Agreed.
I’ve never really been a fan of the 3-4. Something needs to happen with our coverage scheme, though. It seems to me that it has been figured out and good quarterbacks (Drew Brees, anyone?) can carve it up.
the lynchpin is EJ Henderson
since EJ broke his leg, the defense has struggled against the pass — he just isn’t the player he used to be, especially in the Tampa-2.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I've definitely noticed that.
It doesn’t help that our linebackers pretty much have to try and be our defensive backs as well. Because our actual defensive backs are too terrible to do their job properly. I’m just sick of seeing a huge hole in the middle of the field that any and all quarterbacks can exploit seemingly at will. I love me some EJ and I hate to see him struggle, but we need some kind of an upgrade there.
Um
Allen would nt/should not play end in a 3-4. The ends job is contain and taking on the tackle to keep him off the backers. It would be a waste of a premier rusher.
Ayodele hasn’t been able to plug the middle in our scheme. In the 3-4 he’s supposed to do that but consistently take on two blockers. Not perfect at all.
Robison wouldn’t be on the field at the same time as Allen, unless you want one of them primarily playing coverage. You don’t.
As for the backers, I don’t think it matters much to them.
how did nobody see this coming...??
i’ve commented a couple times this week that he would likely be in the mix for the DC job, given the nature of our system.
Spags is kind of a pipe dream, but Del Rio is actually kind of intriguing.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
by rj-b on Jan 6, 2012 1:12 AM CST via Android app reply actions
3-4 is not for us
I would love to see Morris come in as our DB coach given his success at that position in the past with the Bucs. I would actually agree with rj-b that Jack Del Rio, former Vikings Linebacker, would be intriguing to have at DC for us. I like the idea of adding former head coaches to our staff because they truly know what the job entails, and given they may have been fired as HC for a reason- they certainly had what it took to be promoted in the first place and add more experience to our staff. I hope Dunbar returns, as well as Singletary. Singletary didn’t have much of chance with the DB’s sucking so bad that the backers had to focus so on coverage most of the time. He’s had success at LB’s coach in the past with the 49ers, and the Ravens. Give him a full offseason as well as a decent DB group to back him up, things won’t look as bad as before. Ideally for me I would LOVVVE to see Spags, but I doubt it :/
DC-Jack Del Rio- Turned Panthers D around in one year, ALUMNI
DL- Dunbar?- PLEASE don’t leave. Your unit was the only one that didn’t SUCK.
LB-Singletary- Needs another year to prove himself
DB-Raheem Morris- Has done a great job in the past at this position, would be upgrade.
The 3-4 wouldn’t be as easy of a transistion as people may think for us, or as ideal. Personally I don’t think we have the personnel for it, especially with our two BEST defensive players writing it off. 4-3 DE’s don’t just stand up all of sudden and have success- see Aaron Kampan, Mario Williams(very briefly). Remi Ayodele SUCKED this year and wouldn’t fare any better in a 3-4. I don’t think we have the personnel in the LB’s either. I just don’t see all the ‘ideal’ fits working out for us. Get off the bandwagon, come back to reality.
dfewkes15
The ONLY reason...
… there is talk about the 3-4 is the success a few teams have had record wise. Let’s face it… Don Capers was heralded as this awesome defensive mastermind, yet the Packers defensive has been poor this season – the year where Capers’ 3-4 should have been coming into its own! Whilst it is true that the Vikings have a couple of suitable players (E Griffin for one), they ultimately have better starting DEs for the 4-3. We seriously missed a true Pat Williams replacement this past season (and a half as Pat wasn’t himself last year), and this seriously hampered the Vikings run defense. I truly think that Allen would have gone over 25 sacks this year if the Vikings had played the run as effectively as in the past. Would Chicago have been able to triple team Allen? I would welcome Morris coming in to run the defense, but only if we get new LB and DB coaches. We need this unit to be run as a cohesive team – not this disjointed mess we have to endure since Tomlin left for Pittsburgh. We need to get a new starting CB through free agency, and one of the better CBs in the draft – either 1st round (trade down) or early 2nd round. Winfield becomes the full time nickle, which in our division is a full time starter (Packers/Lions multiple receiver sets) and we also need an athletic veteran presence at safety. If EJ cannot improve, then his contract demands will probably outweigh his performance on the field. If everyone thinks that E Griffin can play OLB in a 3-4, then maybe he could be looked at as a OLB or MLB in a 4-3.
by blowfishes on Jan 6, 2012 2:42 AM CST via mobile reply actions
If for DC, BAD move!
This guy was overwhelmed as the HC/DC in Tampa and benefited from an easy schedule in 2010-11. He was successful when just in the role of DB coach but as a DC I think this leads to trouble. His secondary in Tampa the past two years has been nearly as bad as the one in Min and they’ve struggled mightily in pressuring the QB to compensate for that. He’s a likable guy but is too inexperienced for my liking.
His secondary in Tampa the past two years has been nearly as bad as the one in Min
Um their pass Defense in ’10 was 7th in the league overall. It dropped a bit in ’11 but I had to just bring up the facts here.
☠★☪Creator of http://skolnation.co.cc and dedicated DN reader.
by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 6, 2012 8:04 AM CST up reply actions
Excuse me this is not the case, you are correct.
☠★☪Creator of http://skolnation.co.cc and dedicated DN reader.
by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 6, 2012 8:08 AM CST up reply actions
Stats are deceiving...
A bit off topic but I hate folks saying how bad the GB & NE defenses are based solely on yards allowed per game when they are not as bad in the standing in winning the turnover battle and points allowed per game (both of which matter far more than giving up empty yards).
Back to Morris, it’s true their pass defense did have a nice ranking but that was a direct result from their inability to stop the run in any way. We can have a stellar run D but if we can’t stop the pass at all (especially in today’s game) that won’t mean much.
i think you partially answered your own statement:
This guy was overwhelmed as the HC/DC in Tampa
wouldn’t it be fair to reason that if he concentrated on one of those positions, it’s possible he would excel at it??
particularly after knowing the ins-and-outs of HCing a team, in allowing Morris to concentrate solely on the DC portion he has a decent shot at success.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
I agree it's possible...
this may be the case. With a smaller workload (strictly DB coach) he did have success. Jumping from that to both the roles of HC & DC after 1 year coaching college may have been a bit much. I still would prefer a more seasoned DC who has had success in that particular role but they don’t fall from the sky either.
i don't disagree
i’m a fan of Del Rio, especially with Spags being coveted by so many teams.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Sander from Bucs Nation here
Hiring Morris might not signal that they want to stay with a Tampa 2-based defense, really. The Bucs played a lot of man coverage this season, and it looked like their base defense was Cover 1 Man most of the time. Lots of blitzes, too. So Raheem could probably go any which way with that defense.
Do you think he'll be a good DC?
☠★☪Creator of http://skolnation.co.cc and dedicated DN reader.
by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 6, 2012 8:04 AM CST up reply actions
Yes
I think one of his problems in Tampa was having to do two jobs (both DC and HC) and that hurt him, as did having such a young team. I would have some concerns (specifically about run defense) but I think he’ll ultimately be fine.
we appreciate your input
and i completely agree that he may have had too much on his plate. we kind of had a similar situation with Frazier and Spielman (in a different context), which is now hopefully remedied as well.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
Schemes are overrated
Regardless if you play a 4-3 or 3-4 you need talented, experienced DB’s playing behind them and that’s the biggest issue the Vikings have right now. Since Capers came to GB I’ve heard that they’re actually in their base 3-4 defense less than 50% of the time. Every team in the league needs/wants to be able to field at least 5 competent DB’s because of the 3 and 4 WR sets most teams run. Unfortunately the Vikings were having a hard time finding 1 decent DB the 2nd half of the season. Getting 1-2 new corners and 1-2 safeties will go a long way toward fixing this defense –
and I like the idea of signing Raheem Morris. He’s exactly the kind of young (36) coaching talent we should be looking to add.
Hmmm, Raheem Morris
Young, energetic guy. I prefer Spagnuolo, but it seems like the Vikes have little chance on him. I can live with Morris.
"Go hard. I mean, like relentless. I want a bunch of coaches that coach like their hair’s on fire, and I want a football team that goes for four to six seconds (per play) with relentless effort." OSU Coach Urban Meyer.
I like him as a DB coach
But not as a DC. Also, I’ve seen reports that Ronde Barber would either try to get cut or retire if/when Morris got fired. If he gets hired and even brings up trying to bring him in, Spielman better say no, immediately.
by christian220896 on Jan 6, 2012 10:32 AM CST reply actions
Hmm...
His resume as a DC isn’t nearly as good as his resume as a DB coach. Seeing as how we already have a fairly inexperienced HC and an OC that has had more experience as a QB coach than as an OC…why do we want to bring in another inexperienced coach for another of our high level positions?
I would love the move to bring him in as a DB coach, but as a DC? I’m not as sold.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
love the move, solid solid choice!
get it done!!!!! with the right personnel tampa 2 is just fine, and as long as we have les fraizer, that is the scheme we should run.
i hope it happens, fingers crossed!!
by los vikingos on Jan 6, 2012 11:23 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
dudes, everyone calmiring for a 3-4 switch...CHILL!!
i live in dc, where the skins stubbornly switched onto the 3-4 bandwagon with the wrong personnel, and it took them two years to field an even mediocre difference…cant fit a square peg in a round hole.
i have no intention, zippy, of copying those assholes in wisconsin on anyhting they do. lets do what we do best with our personnel. the strenghth of our team is the d-line for gids sakes, not the lbs!!!! why would you want to take a dl off the field is beyond me….! anyone clamoring for a switch to the 3-4 is an idiot and should go root for the packers i say….
by los vikingos on Jan 6, 2012 11:29 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
I agree...
I don’t agree with many things you post but I completely agree with you here. Schemes are fads that come and go. The constant is that you use the scheme that fits the strengths of your players. How long until teams spend the majority prepping for 3-4 schemes resulting in the emergence of a new system that catches them off guard and becomes the next “it” scheme.
also, haven't the Patriots been moving to more of a base 4-3 defense?
seems like as the season wore on, Bellicheck was utilizing 4 down lineman a majority of the time….
heck, lets go the other way, a 5-2 front 7…..add Griffen onto the line and run 2 backers…
5-2
Om another site, I suggested a move to a 5-2 for the first game against the Packers. They could put Everson Griffen in for Jared Allen, and let Jared roam. Make the Packers account for Jared every play. Knock Aaron Rogers around a little bit.
by vking1 on Jan 6, 2012 1:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
This is the kind of response that does nothing for the board
It is cool that you think the switch to the 3-4 is not a good idea for the Vikings right now with their current personnel. But resorting to calling those who think it is something to consider an “idiot” is uncalled for and is unneeded.
his valid points
1. Washington switched unsuccessfully
2. They were unsuccessful because they had the wrong personnel
3. The strength of our team is the d-line
4. Switching would undermine our strengths
5. Packers suck
I don’t think that’s nothing. And I think suggesting that people who disagree with you are idiots is pretty tame by internet standards.
I did say it was cool that he thought it was not a good move
Thus I agreed with his points. The “idiot” part is unnecessary and displays a weakness.
Standards is what will set this site apart from others. How low should the standards be?
Should we have a list of words that are allowable to call your fellow Vikings fans?
I am not in charge here. I just do not think it brings anything to the discussion.
And he did make some good points.
Mark, perhaps in my efforts to be inflammatory I went overboard with using the term "idiot"
My apologies. However, given we have J Allen, K Will, Griffen, and Ballard—-and not Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, Harry Carsons, and Gary Reason——switching to the 3-4 seems to me to be “senseless”…is that better?
It is all good
You made fine points in your first reply. You do not need to mollify me at all.
I just am not going to be someone’s “idiot” and most definitely am not going to root for the Packers. Believe dat!
For the record though, I am a bit of a doofus which may be synonymous with idiot.
gotcha its cool
god knows im certainly very moronic at times as well…just tryin to spice up the discussion…
by los vikingos on Jan 7, 2012 10:24 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
What bothers me is that Frazier came out and said
That as long as he is HC, then he won’t do 3-4.
When people say that, it tells me they aren’t willing to adapt when it is necessary. Either they are convinced that their way is the only way or that it is too much work.
It’s not that he thinks 3-4 might be wrong, but that he’s going to stick it out even if at some point it is essential to make a change. Not a good attitude.
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 6, 2012 12:32 PM CST reply actions
Necessary?
This is a question of coaching philosophy and style. There is no right or wrong answer as to which to play, and neither choice is “necessary.”
So, yeah, inflexibility on something that requires flexibility would be bad. This isn’t one of those things.
I can’t think of anything that would make a change essential. Can you?
Not at the moment
And probably not for the immediate future. It’s just dumb for any new leader to not keep an open mind, especially when the team has failed thus far under his leadership.
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 6, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Here's the breakdown on who is running what, btw
4-3: CIN, TEN, NYG, PHI, SEA, ATL, DET, JAX, DEN, CLE, OAK, CAR, IND, CHI, TB, MIN, STL
3-4: SD, PIT, DAL, MIA, GB, ARI, KC, HOU, SF, WAS
Multiple front: BAL, NYJ, NO, BUF, NE
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 6, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Should he rethink the forward pass?
This just seems like the kind of opinion a coach is supposed to have. He’s a 4-3 guy. If you want a 3-4, get someone else.
Frazier can say whatever he wants
If Spielman decides to draft personnel and sign free agents that fit the 3-4 then Frazier has no choice. Right now the defense is not working despite leading the league in sacks. The run defense has been getting worse each year. This year they are 11th. It is trending downwards.
When you go 6-10 and 3-13 then everything is on the table.
Sigh
I just would have been happy if Frazier would have said, “We’ll do whatever it takes to win. Right now, I don’t think running a 3-4 will get us there, but we’ll keep evaluating every year.”
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 6, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
But that's not how it works
Coaches have core philosophies. That’s what you hire them for.
If you can name one head coach who consistently wins
Who isn’t constantly adapting to other coaches who are constantly adapting, then I will gladly agree with you…
by liveforadrenaline on Jan 6, 2012 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
How often do head coaches switch their defensive system?
It happens, but not very often.
And stop trying to be vague so you can be right.
ok, here's an exception:
Mike Tomlin.
4-3 guy who went to Pittsburgh as a HC and allowed them to remain 3-4.
the justification??
he had Dick friggin’ LeBeau — who, for the record, has been constantly consistent.
if you can’t read between the lines there, i can’t help you.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
If that's what Spielman's going to do
He really needs to fire Frazier, or get Ziggy to.
I really hope we don’t have that sort of discord in the organization. That would be disastrous.
I do not think that is discord
That is the person in charge of personnel deciding that he has better personnel for the 3-4 defense at this point in time. Spielman could be looking at the draft over the last couple of years and deciding the players coming out tend to fit more in a 3-4 than 4-3. I am not saying he does but he could.
I am fairly sure that Speilman would discuss this with Frazier. And I think that they could switch back and forth between the 3-4 and 4-3 depending on the play call.
Frazier should be able to adapt his defense to fit the personnel. Not the other way around. This is a real problem I have with owners. They bring in a coach and give him full control. This coach can get rid of any player he does not like (Childress got rid of Culpepper for example which may or may not have been a good idea). Then he can draft players to fit his system. Next thing you know this coach is out and you are left with his personnel. No thanks to that philosophy. Having a GM that drafts the best players possible and telling the coach to work with the players is better long term for the franchise IMHO.
it's not discord
To have a coach who says, “I want to play 4-3” and a GM who decides to get players for a 3-4? Huh? That’s a fundamental disagreement about on-field strategy. If I was the owner, that would be completely unacceptable.
And if I’m the GM, I would want it resolved by replacing the coach because I can’t just put 3-4 players out there without defensive coaching changes to people who knows what they are doing in that system.
totally totally agree amiller
big problem if the GM wants 3-4, with a 4-3 coach and personel…big problem
by los vikingos on Jan 6, 2012 2:20 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
A coach can say what he wants and if he does not like it he can get another job
Right now, Spielman is the top man in the organization. Why Wilf did not give him full control is just another haphazard way of Wilf not getting it. The GM should be able to fire the coach. Maybe they need a President that is over the GM and coach?
Either way I do not see it as “discord”. Tom Peliserro at 1500espn.com is still saying that some in Winter Park want to make the switch. For a gut who covers the team and has access to personnel to continue reporting what he is hearing, well that is something.
Maybe they do it and maybe they don’t. Discussing it now or talking about it publicly is not something that is going to create any discord going forward. I feel confident that Spielman, Frazier, et al will discuss the merits of it before they actually make a switch. By then, Frazier will be on board if they decide that is best for the team going forward. And Spielman will be on board if they decide to stick with a 4-3 defense.
I could actually see them trying a mixture to be honest. They are trying to come up with ways to get Everson Griffen and Jasper Brinkley on the field more often.
Let me try again
If I’m the owner, or senior management in any business, I would not tolerate a fundamental disagreement over strategy like this. I would not want to risk the possibility that one guy would undermine the other because of that disagreement.
They need to get on the same page here or one of them has to leave.
Also, I think Pellisario is probably full of it here and its primarily him who wants to switch.
But the discord wasn’t whatever’s being discussed at winter park. It was your suggestion that Spielman could just force a ditch through his personnel decision.
To be clear
You are absolutely right that Spielman’s not going to force Frazier’s hand without talking to him. Or I guess I should say at 11:49 you are right, but at 11:10 you are wrong.
Also, given the choices available in the draft, and the vast room for disagreement about who’s the BPA when you’re drafting, I have no idea how strict conformity to BPA could ever force major philosophical changes.
to be fair...
…it’s really easy to “trend downwards” when you lead the league against the run 3yrs (damn near 4yrs) in a row…
…just saying…
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
11th in the league
Is not exactly disaster. We need a replacement for Pat Williams still, but with that we will continue to be good against the run.
if we were out of the top 15
then i would agree it doesn’t look promising. but in the last six years we’ve gone 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 9th, 11th. yes, there is cause for concern, but we’re still pretty much a top 10 team against the run — there’s no need to panic yet.
"Th_r_'s n_ h_p_ f_r _ssh_l_ f_ckw_ts."
Can I buy a vowel...?? +1, Kluwe.
when did he say "That as long as he is HC, then he won’t do 3-4."
give me a link, a source? all the interviews I’ve heard it’s more along the lines of we’ll look at all options for scheme, but it needs to fit our goals and personnel, and that he won’t switch just because it’s the “in” thing to do…
Add some corners
It’s not going to matter which defensive philosophy the Vikings decide to employ until they upgrade the talent in the secondary. Right now people are frustrated with losing and are grasping at straws.
by vking1 on Jan 6, 2012 1:23 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Agreed
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/debates and dedicated DN reader.
by UnBannedVikingholic on Jan 11, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Agree with Glover
Morris is young energic guy. Spags would be good also. Either is a significant upgrade.
by Vikefandc on Jan 6, 2012 3:23 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I like the move.
I’ve always really liked Morris as a coach. Maybe giving him one thing to focus on instead of HC/DC duties will help him. I would love to have Del Rio or Spags, but I also really like Morris.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
