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Freaking out about Ponder

Seems like a lot of Viking fans out there are convinced beyond all reasonable doubt that Ponder was a huge mistake and that we need a new QB. I know you've all been showed (and ignored) the various stat lines from amazing QBs that show the rookie year is often a rough one, but here's another anecdote that will hopefully keep you from crucifying him:

from http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/surprise-surprise-aaron-rodgers-far-sure-thing-071609300.html#more-15561

Star-divide

While there's little question now that Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers has been the best at his position over the last two seasons (only Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints could provide any serious challenge to that assertion), the current lead dog in the NFL MVP race was anything but a slam-dunk as a successful signal-caller early on. In fact, as recalled in a fascinating article by Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, Rodgers had aspects of a bust when he came into the NFL as the 24th overall pick in the 2005 draft.

As a rookie, Rodgers' six substantial outings included a scrimmage against Buffalo, four exhibition games and the fourth quarter of a December night game in Baltimore.

He was brutal every time out.

In each of the exhibition games, Brett Favre started before turning it over to Rodgers. Until his 20th and final series, when the Packers scored a touchdown in Tennessee with the aid of a 33-yard penalty for pass interference, Rodgers had not generated a point. Sixteen possessions ended with punts, two on interceptions and one on a fumble.

If the No. 2 quarterback job had been awarded based on performance in training camp and games, it would have gone to Craig Nall hands-down.

In addition, as McGinn remembers, there were several scouts and personnel executives who rated some very … um … "unconventional" quarterbacks over Rodgers at the time — worldbeaters like Charlie Whitehurst and Brodie Croyle. Not one of a pool of 18 talent evaluators put Rodgers in the same class as the Big Three of the time: Matt Leinart, Vince Young and Jay Cutler.

Why was Rodgers behind the 8-ball? First, he came from a system at Cal where he was told to do specific mechanical things that hampered his style:

He had been taught at California by coach Jeff Tedford to carry the ball high near his ear, on the so-called "shelf." Rodgers insisted that it quickened his release and sharpened his accuracy, but it also limited his ability to vary his release point against pressure and probably prevented him from really driving the ball downfield.

McCarthy has said the Packers worked with Rodgers to carry the ball lower to enhance his natural throwing motion, and by about his third year his ball positioning no longer was an issue.

Beyond that, Rodgers also had to take care of a few mental and emotional factors — early on, he would point out when teammates made less-than-perfect plays when things weren't going well, and that's as sure a no-no for any elite quarterback as there can be. Part of what Rodgers had to do was simply to grow up.

"I have been humbled through not playing and through my poor play my first year," Rodgers said in August of 2007. "I came out as a 21-year-old kid still wet behind the ears, thinking I had all the answers. I feel like my body language in general, practice included, has really improved."

That year, as McGinn put it, Rodgers "cut weight and body fat while adding bulk strength to better absorb hits. He threw tighter spirals. He made fewer impulsive mistakes. He stayed in the pocket longer. He stopped blaming others, quit being so defensive and let teammates see the positive side of him.

By the end of 2007, head coach Mike McCarthy and general manager Ted Thompson were confident enough in Rodgers' future to barely break a sweat when Brett Favre decided to retire for the first time in early 2008, Famously, when Favre tried to come back to the team, the Packers brass shone it on and told Favre that they were all good, thanks very much.

As Favre toured various NFL outposts and vacillated between retirement and unretirement, Rodgers fixed the last few odd remnants of his playing style. He worked with biomechanical experts to put together the deep passing game that has now become a hallmark of his style, and the style of the Packers. He learned to get rid of the ball when the read wasn't there, which was the last vestige of his quarterback mortality.

"That used to be our thing … we knew we could sack him," an NFC North executive told McGinn. "Now he doesn't get sacked much anymore." Rodgers led the league with 50 sacks in 2009, and reduced those totals to 31 in 2010 and 36 in 2011. More than that, Rodgers has become the NFL's most dangerous quarterback when hurried or on the run.

It's a fascinating story, and one that can provide encouragement for fans of those teams with quarterbacks still looking to find their way. For every player who turns out to be what we thought he was (for better or worse), there are hidden diamonds like Aaron Rodgers who just need the right combination of mechanics, maturity, and patience.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.

Comment 31 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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I think

that Favre had something to do with this. Based on this, he would have been total bust if he started right away.

by PurplePrideforLife! on Jan 8, 2012 8:45 AM CST reply actions  

As much as I love Favre's play, I think the general consensus is that he tried to suppress Rodgers and did not make it easy for him.

If Favre helped Rodgers in any way, it would have to be that Rodgers was hell-bent on proving Favre wrong..or some other reverse psychology…Is that what you meant by your comment?

by izziefans on Jan 9, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with PurplePrideforLife

A guy doesn’t sit behind a legend and not learn anything. They are in the same meetings, with the same coaches, and Aaron Rodgers got to hear for 3 or 4 years what Favre and the coaches were analyzing and what they were focusing on improving.
Rodgers would not have been the QB he is today if it weren’t for learning under Favre for that time. I don’t care how much Farve liked or disliked him, they still were in the same meetings studying the same film and learning how to make the same adjustments.

by mak07 on Jan 9, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice article

But it won’t matter. People here seem to hate Ponder and think he doesn’t have top tier arm strength so he must suck. They don’t realize that a couple of off seasons can affect his arm strength and throwing motion just as it did for Rodgers. They would rather believe the scouting reports that evaluated him during college when he was dealing with various shoulder injuries.

Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.

by TroyW18 on Jan 8, 2012 9:10 AM CST reply actions  

Ponder's throwing motion is a thing of beauty,

running either way and in the pocket and doesn’t need work like Rodger’s did. But you’re right about the strength. Pumping weights in training camp goes a long way, he couldn’t do it last offseason.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 8, 2012 9:54 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

He could have lifted weights on his own

However I don’t think he realized the disparity that exists between the NFL and college ball. Plus I bet he thought he’d have better protection than he got.

The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.

by Grime on Jan 9, 2012 7:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't get that last part.

Why couldn’t he lift weights last offseason? I thought I saw at least one or two videos of him working out in the offseason last year.

"Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

by kcskol on Jan 9, 2012 10:10 AM CST up reply actions  

work outs vary from off-season to in-season

at least when I played in college. Out of season you’re working on increasing muscle strength and endurance while in-season you workout to maintain.

Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.

by TroyW18 on Jan 9, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Also, last offseason

He spent about the first 2 or so months trying to get healthy and back into game shape for the senior bowl and his pro day/combine. He didn’t get a chance to stop doing “in-season” workouts until after the draft, essentially losing about 4 or 5 months of “off-season” muscle growth workouts. Now he can concentrate on working out and bulking up 100% of the off-season… He’ll also be able to sit down with a coach and learn the offense much better…

by mak07 on Jan 9, 2012 10:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Look at Stafford..he seems to have bulked up a little!

Wonder if Cushing had something to do with it..wink wink!

If so, we have Williams wall to advise Ponder….just kidding. Don’t kill me!

by izziefans on Jan 9, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Give Ponder a chance with a decent O-line

and someone to stretch the field with (Meachem or L. Robinson maybe?)

Straight Cash Homey

by MOSScomeBACK2vikes on Jan 8, 2012 9:48 AM CST reply actions  

100% agree

give the guy a chance to develop, an o line that gives a guy a few seconds and some experience to audible and we will be there with ponder.

Try to learn from others mistakes because there just is not enough time in this world to make them all your self

by montana vikes fan on Jan 8, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

This is not true

In the NFL, the players know what they need to do and how to do it. Coaching is not as big of a factor as it is in college, and is only majorly signifigant in playcalling.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 8, 2012 10:59 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Coaches need to develop the second and third tier players

The stars can do it on their own, but even there, they benefit from good coaching. It is the 4-7 rounders that we need good coaches for.

by Murgo on Jan 8, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

This is very true

But firing everyone is the wrong approach. Get them good players first and if they don’t produce, then fire them. You can’t expect them to turn every pick past the fourth round into an immediate starter.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 8, 2012 11:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Agreed as well

but my main point was that you don’t have to have an elite coach or system to be successful in the NFL (see the 2009-10 NY Jets and 2011 Giants) due to the professionalism, work ethic, and flat-out talent of the players as opposed to the college level, where if you don’t have an elite coach you’re not going anywhere anytime soon.

If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).

by Alittlemore_cowbell on Jan 8, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Coaching is huge

look at Aaron Rodgers how he developed, If he landed in sf might have been a bust, Same with Harvin, Look how we are eventually at the end of year he was utilized, look at the top teams who have been competitive, baltimore, new england, pitsburgh, Green Bay elite coaches, all of the major Green bay players have been drafted 2nd+ round like jordy nelson and greg jenninges, finley etc.

by eltwentyone on Jan 9, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Its not always about the Xs and Os

It’s about the Jimmies and the Joes… rhyming is fun and I am going to say this stupid rhyme every time someone says it is all about coaching because that is just not true.

\m/

by Edgecrusher71 on Jan 9, 2012 7:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Watching Brees and Stafford last night

Made me appreciate how much Ponder actually CAN do. The kid was thrown to the wolves and came out wounded, no doubt, but will be stronger for it. If he had the protection that Brees had, as well as Stafford, he would have been slicing up the defenses this year. Megatron is a luxury few people realize and that guy hauls in everything. One play Stafford just threw it up and let it hang and Johnson just ran under it and out dueled two/three guys.

So, let’s give the kid a break. He is good and will only be better.

by Murgo on Jan 8, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Hey, did you see where Ponder was Tweeting.....

about our local Ozarks hero Dorial Green – Beckham? Ponder says “this Green – Beckhan kid is legit”. So, if we can draft him in four years, we may have our winning QB – Pass Receiver combo.

Patience is a virtue.

Time you enjoy wasting, was not wasted. - John Lennon

by JethroBoViking on Jan 8, 2012 11:35 AM CST reply actions  

People are simply panicking because of the record.

We are in a very good position for next year, there is a top-tier LT within reach in the draft, the free agent pool will be full of good options (specifically WRs) due to the UFA rules going back to 4 years, and we have two QB’s who look like they have a good chance to be solid players.

For some reason, people were expecting Ponder to come in during a shortened off-season as a rookie and play like Aaron Rodgers. Which is just plain silly.

As long as the coaching staff does their jobs, and makes the right moves, we are going to be in the playoff hunt next year. No doubt about it.

That does not mean we will win the Super Bowl, or even make the playoffs. The NFC North is a tough division, so we will have a harder time than we did 3-4 years ago when the Lions sucked, the Bears sucked and the Packers were mediocre.

I see the Ponder-Webb combination being a potent combination at QB for a while. People will be less likely to try to knock Ponder out of the game if they know that Webb is sitting right behind him, with a completely different style of play that they likely will not have game planned for.

We have seen what Webb can do coming off the bench, he is very impressive. But I don’t believe he can be that successful as a starter quite yet. Once teams get some tape on him, and are actively game planning against him, I think he will struggle as much as Ponder has.

The bottom line is, I am very optimistic about the next few years.

by Bjorno on Jan 8, 2012 11:56 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

Stat Lines

I could probably give you 10 times more examples of below average qbs having about that stat line too. Not saying that you don’t have a point, just saying that it doesn’t really mean anything other than we just need to give him more time to see if he’s our guy.

by dsludo on Jan 8, 2012 1:23 PM CST reply actions  

Good point. There's nothing in Ponder's stats so far that strongly indicates that he'll be great, average, or terrible yet.

It’s way too early to be overly confident in his future success or to write him off as a bust either. My opinion, and obviously this is just a gut feeling, is that he’ll become a good but not great QB. Basically I see his floor being in the range of 15-20th in the league QB while I think his ceiling is in the 10-15 range.

by CanadianViking on Jan 8, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I'm not going to assume anything right now

What I do know is we need to give these Quarterbacks a chance to prove themselves by putting togeather a professional offensive line.

This years draft will go a long way in how quickly and what direction this franchise will rise.

We could go Blackmon in hopes of still acquiring a starting caliber O-line in the 2nd.

We could go Claiborne in hopes of acquiring a starting caliber O-line in the 2nd and bringing in a proven WR in Free Agency.

We could go after someone we’re unaware of in a linebacker or a DE to go opposite of Allen.

I really hope we don’t move back in the draft as there are already 5 great prospects in the top of this draft board.

by PurpleJesuZ on Jan 8, 2012 8:36 PM CST reply actions  

Ponder is awesome.

i’m not worried. I don’t know why there is so much hate when he’s a rookie QB. I read this too, thanks for throwing it up. Great example. You could write the same thing about Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Troy Aikman and Matt Stafford as other guys who struggled in their rookie year along with lots of others. It takes time, peeps.

"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain

by Landonio on Jan 9, 2012 3:35 PM CST reply actions  

Alot

of people have posted already and as I have, we need a few positions fixed, Oline, CB, WR, be it FA or Draft. The offseason is sposed to loaded with top WRs. If a stud Olineman is not there then possibly take Blackmon or trade down with Miami at 10 as they might be looking for a QB. It’s going to be very interesting offseason and draft. @ Landonio, agree 100% with those QBs mentioned they all had rough starts, T Aikman went 0-16 and look what he accomplished, not to leave out the others. good posts everyone

by Pwrback on Jan 9, 2012 8:16 PM CST reply actions  

This post inspired me

Check out this post detailing Ponder’s Stats. When projected out, his stats actually look pretty good, especially when you compare them to other rookie QBs.

Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.

by CCNorsemen on Jan 9, 2012 11:52 PM CST reply actions  

Nuttin wrong with Ponder

That a genius head coach and offensive coordinator, massive o-line, and some freak tight ends and wide receivers won’t take care of.

by liveforadrenaline on Jan 11, 2012 9:16 PM CST reply actions  

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