Minnesota Vikings Stadium: Ramsey County Tries Again
Yippee, more stadium drama stuff!
Today on As the Stadium Turns, the folks from Ramsey County have finally come up with their third different stab at a financing plan for a stadium at the Vikings' preferred site in Arden Hills. This one, like some of the other ones, makes entirely too much sense. That means that it probably stands no chance at passing or gaining any real traction, either.
Man, I'm starting to think that this whole thing is making me even more cynical than normal.
So, what is Ramsey County proposing this time?
Ramsey County's third stab at a financing plan for a Minnesota Vikings stadium in Arden Hills relies on revenue from parking lot naming rights, parking fees, an admissions surcharge, stadium sales taxes and taxes collected on ancillary developments.
The proposal, projected to raise $20.6 million per year from the assortment of user fees, comes as stadium supporters rush to cobble together a workable plan for the legislative session and as funding concepts proposed by Minneapolis and state officials appear to be faltering.
So, let's see here. . .all of the stuff to pay for the stadium will come as a direct result of things relating to the stadium. . .no new taxes. . .doesn't involve gambling in any way.
Yeah, the whole thing makes too damn much sense. And it's not located in Minneapolis. It has no shot.
Speaking of Minneapolis, as the snippet quoted above mentions, the Minneapolis funding plan appears to be falling short financially. . .according to the Star-Tribune, it's falling short to the tune of $55 million, and the gap could eventually rise to as much as $100 million. If I didn't know any better, I'd think that Minneapolis didn't totally think their stadium proposals all the way through and pulled something out of their collective asses at the last minute in a last-ditch, desperate effort to keep the stadium in Minneapolis somehow.
But now we have a new financing plan at the Vikings' preferred location. Hopefully something. . .anything. . .will get accomplished in the near future here. The Vikings need to declare where they're going to play by this Wednesday, and have said that they're not signing a new lease or extended lease with the Metrodome unless they have assurances that something is going to be in place for a new stadium.
The clock is ticking, folks. . .but if history has taught us anything on this subject, we should probably just assume that the Minnesota legislature will once again find a way to roll over and hit the "snooze" button rather than actually getting up and doing anything.
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One man's bold prediction of cowardice.
I’m gonna take a EWAG (educated wild-ass guess) here.
All parties have established, and modified, their initial bargaining positions — save one, the legislature. They are cowardly and have offered no solutions, only objections. Gambling, new taxes, you name it. It’s an election year and many of the 201 legislators are simply scared to death of this stadium financing issue. They do not want to see a stadium bill come to a floor vote.
So my EWAG is this:
The Vikings will agree to a one year lease extension at the dome, per the clause regarding the games displaced by the roof collapse. We will then sail through the November elections, which returns control of (at least) the Senate to the DFL. Then we do this whole thing all over again next year.
by Lars in SLP on Feb 10, 2012 7:08 AM CST via mobile reply actions
No,
this will end now. The Zyg cannot hold his composure much longer.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Feb 10, 2012 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
If no deal gets done this year?
I have no doubt that he’ll sell the team or move them to somewhere where he can make signifigantly more money without Minnesota politics shitting in his hand and saying “eat up”.
No one wants this to happen, but I think it’s inevitable if a deal’s not done this year.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Feb 10, 2012 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think so
Especially if a deal gets done next year.
Or to put it differently
He is a business person making business decisions, not a fan seeking petulant satisfaction.
Ziggy will hang tight until all Avenues are explored. He has been fairly patient
You guys see the Kurt Zeller’s video on the star-tribune. http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/139100284.html
by raider.freak on Feb 10, 2012 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
to make a baseball reference
since football season is over:
its the bottom of the 9th two outs bases loaded. Ramsey steps up to the plate and knocks one into deep left.
now there are three options:
option one: grand slam. Ramsey walks off. and we’ll see you tomorrow night.
option two: it is ruled a ground rule double. Minneapolis up next, hits a base hit. we still win but not nearly exciting.
option 3: the ump rules fan interference. we lose. everyone goes home full of disappointment.
when asked by Dan Patrick if his name alluded to not making quick decisions in the pocket, Ponder calmly replied "As crazy as it sounds, my mom's maiden name is actually Superbowlwinner. All one word"
by filbert33 on Feb 10, 2012 8:08 AM CST via Android app reply actions
I was thinking it drifts and is called foul...
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
This should reported as an increase in the Vikings contribution
As it looks like all of this, except the sales tax growth at the stadium, is money that would have gone into their pockets.
Anyway, I certainly see no reason for anyone to object to using these revenues. I guess I’d expect questions about whether these numbers are reliable, but how can you complain about he people who use it paying or it?
We’ll see what happens.
I think this is the kind of plan that even a lot of the vikings fans would feel better with
White Horn Gold Pants
A question is
What the bond markets will think.
Alright, let's not be quite so cynical
So, I understand that it might be a bit of a long shot for the Vikings to end up in Arden Hills, but it’s not dead yet. You have to give some credit to the fact that the Arden Hills proposal is still even on the table. This new proposal makes all the sense in the world. Maybe with some luck, the legislators will see that it is the most viable option, even though the team would be leaving downtown Minneapolis. Maybe if we get some positive thinking going on around here and everywhere else in Minny, we can make this happen!
It will be interesting to see what the Vikes say
I tend to assume that anything Ortega and Bennett do is coordinated with them, but this doesn’t say.
All politics are local. 201 legislators are focused on reelection.
I’d be pleased if these developments lead to AH, but I suspect it will be no-go for 2012. Which of course means the cost of every proposal goes up another 4% or so.
Even Ted Mondale said, a few weeks back, that the objective is to increase and ensure the team’s profitability so they will hang around. Now, because the legislature continues to resist new local partner taxes, each local partner is forced to propose user fees that will reduce team profitability.
This ain’t rocket science, its political science. An inexact science, to be sure.
by Lars in SLP on Feb 10, 2012 9:43 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I'm pretty sure it isn't a science at all...
must like scientology isn’t a science or histogram has nothing to do with the grammy’s
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
I would think that if the Vikings can get on board with this
It would pass. There are no tax increases, which should make this palatable for Zellers. But since it makes so much sense, somebody will probably find a way to torpedo it.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
The question is going to be
Whether these revenues are dependable enough for the bond investors who are actually putting up the money.
Which, of course, is the same issue the electronic pull tabs have.
Hopefully the answer is “yes,” or at least “the interest rate they require isn’t so dramatically higher as to blow up the numbers.”
Yup
The Mayor and Council President get it. The majority of the city council, confident in their liberal rectitude, do not.
They are reflecting their constituents, but I think they are failing to think past the short term. No one will be happy if the Vikes leave, and certain the “no money for stadium” crowd will be just as unhappy ten or fifteen years done the road when they are spending even more money to try to get a team back.
count me as one of the "no money for the stadium"
who won’t care if a team ever comes back….there are a lot of areas that do just fine without sports teams, and it seems kind of ironic that those places with major league sports teams have more financial difficulties than those that don’t.
Still a few issues
1. State Contribution: reliant on the whole “pull tab” scenario, and there is some disagreement and issues related to how much money this would be able to generate. It’s a great idea, but it’s not a sure thing yet.
2. Ramsey County Contribution: User fees will be tough for the Vikings to accept, as it’s potential revenue that they are essentially giving up. While this source of funding is being applied to Ramsey County, a case could be made that is really just the Vikings giving up revenue to Ramsey County, and it’s therefore just more Vikings contribution
3. Vikings Contribution: It’s already the highest for Arden Hills, and they certainly won’t like it over other options.
At the end of the day, if the Vikings really want the Arden Hills site, then they may have to go along with the user fees thing, and then put all their hopes and dreams on the pull-tabs from the State. It sounds to me like a shaky proposal (at this point). It’s certainly doable, but it’s by no means a grand slam. It will totally depend on if legislators can get behind the proposal and show support.
All that said, it’s got to be a better idea than the current Metrodome site, where they have to move the 511 thingy. That sounds like a major headache just waiting to happen. That, and then there’s the whole falling short on funding thing. At this point, following this process has proved to be so difficult I don’t know what to think anymore.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Wilf is willing to spend more $$ in Arden Hills because he will get a larger return on his investment there
There’s so much $$ to be made in development that he’s fine with ponying up more $$.
White Horn Gold Pants
No surprise
But Bagley says this doesn’t work for the team. Ugh.
On the other hand, they are still working with both AH and Minneapolis, so everyone involved still have a lot of choices they can make.
I thought of something similar over a year ago, except for the state, not the county
and if anyone nixes this, it will be Wilf…because he wants all the revenues going to him.
a business owner wants the revenue from his business?
Hold the presses.
by Jepp The Viking on Feb 11, 2012 8:05 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ramsey's plan has a lot coming from directly stadium relating costs.
That has a much better chance of passing. The rhetoric has already been implanted in the public mind that any state funding towards this stadium is going to be straight out of the taxpayer’s pockets from direct taxes on everybody.
A plan that uses more Vikings related sources as revenue like the parking meters or ticket taxes is far more likely to get through as politicians only care about the current public opinion now in an election year and don’t give much care to anytime in the future.
Turn, but
Those are also dollars the team doesn’t get to keep for themselves.
For sure.
But compared with other options like TCF Bank stadium… I can hope he’s willing to compromise a little and give up at least some of those dollars to go toward the project. He’d certainly get more of the public on his side if they can come up with a plan that doesn’t fuel the rhetoric of new taxes for billionaire welfare.
Why hasn't Zyg
Said ‘give me the land, tax free for eternity’, build his out door stadium with tailgating, and tell the State to go to hell when they want to host something there?
by Jepp The Viking on Feb 10, 2012 12:50 PM CST reply actions
+++
+
Don't you know who the *^$% I am?
by Jeppernaut on Feb 10, 2012 3:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Because that's a less attractive deal for him
Than what he’s negotiating with the state or he could get by selling the team.
I'm sort of curious
If there’s any way at all Ramsey County can pay for this without increasing taxes that doesn’t cut into the Vikings revenue. I can’t think of anything, personally.
If there was
They probably would have proposed it.
Well, that’s not quite right. They could cut their budget by about $20 mil a year, but that ain’t happening.
As
As a huge supporter of the arden hills site from the get go…this plan sounds great….i have said that I support public funding,,, but the team had to be willing to compromise with ramsey….you can’t say that even with these added cuts in revenue the vikes would have,,, they would still be making $$$$$$$$. Not to mention everything that zygi would build around it…..
by Toes110 on Feb 10, 2012 6:38 PM CST via Android app reply actions
I'm sure they're willing to compromise
They just said that the terms the County specified above are unacceptable.
when you want money given to you, you should be at the mercy of the giver
when the rest of us go to the bank for a loan, we have to jump through hoops to ensure the lender will let us BORROW the money. If we want a grant for something, we have to jump through hoops and do exactly what the money givers say we must….why should Wilf get free money AND decide how it should be used?
Because without Wilf
There are no Vikings. And without the Vikings the entire point is moot. That alone gives them some bargaining leverage.

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