Minnesota Vikings Stadium: Team Rejects Latest Ramsey County Plan
Well, that certainly didn't take long.
Ramsey County’s third Minnesota Vikings stadium proposal doesn’t work for the team, Vice President Lester Bagley said Friday.
The latest plan delivered to Gov. Mark Dayton shifted from using county sales taxes to user fees at the proposed stadium site in Arden Hills. Bagley was direct about the third effort, saying, "Our view is the earlier proposals were more viable."
I get that the legislature lacks the testicular fortitude to present any kind of a solution and, instead, offers nothing but criticism. I get that there are a lot of anti-stadium crybabies out there that think Zygi should "build it himself" (even though they'd find a way to whine about that, too, what with Zygi being able to keep all the profits in that case). I get that the team wants to maximize their profit potential after years of getting screwed over by the Minneapolis Sports Facilities Commission.
What I don't get, however, is that people fail to realize that something needs to get done. I don't give a damn what the anti-stadium crybabies say about the Metrodome. . .it's no longer a viable National Football League facility, and it hasn't been for a very long time. Talk all you want about a "new roof" and a "new playing surface." That's garbage and everybody knows it.
In this case, all of these parties involved could learn a valuable lesson from Professors Woods, Watts, Richards, and Jagger.
Get something done. Stop screwing around and get something done.
Has any other team in any other sport ever had this much trouble getting something done concerning a stadium?
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I can think of a few more words
Gutless. Spineless. Useless. Pathetic. Cowardly.
Among others.
(The politicians, I mean.)
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 10, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
And the owners?
Who say no? No approbation for them?
Zygi has done everything Minnesota has asked him to do.
He has jumped through hoops for them. I don’t think many people on this planet have his kind of patience
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, it's just that your's is stupid.
www.vikescity.info
by HolySchnikes on Feb 10, 2012 11:21 PM CST up reply actions
You say that like "Minnesota" is a person
Who can be fairly exoected to be consistent. Never mind the ensuing elections.
And yeah, people who want hundreds of millions in subsides can be expected to be patient. The alternative for them is to forgo the subsidy. They either say, “gee, I’ll just pay it myself” or keep negotiating for help.
It really bothers me that people who won’t help for the Vikes, as I do, act so entitled and petulant. The bravado convinces no one.
This team has been "patient"
For a damn decade. Through three governors and two ownership groups.
They were patient while watching two other entities who, quite frankly, didn’t deserve it as much as they do get public funding to build stadiums.
I hope that you can be as “patient” while waiting for the NFL to put a team back in Minnesota. The odds are pretty good that you’d be waiting for a while.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 10, 2012 11:38 PM CST up reply actions
Good things come to those who wait (in the right spot...)
I remember living in Minnesota when the state treasury was so choked with surplus cash that Ventura was shoveling it back to taxpayers in rebate checks. Did the Vikings get a stadium upgrade they were seeking then?
I remember writing repeatedly to my now defrocked State Senator about the stadium situation. I guess she was having so much fun with her staff, she did not have enough time to think about such things. (So much for her career plan.)
Finally, I left and moved to a state far, far away that only needs one thing to build a stadium or two for the team, its franchise.
Unfortunately, I like really my odds.
Not one bit
The state has told Zygi that the Twins needed to be taken care of first. And they were.
The state has told Zygi that the Gophers needed to be taken care of first. And they were.
The state has told Zygi that he needs to find a willing local partner. And he has.
The state has told Zygi that he needs to increase his contribution. And he has.
And every time, this whining collective of idiots finds a new excuse to push it off and a new hurdle for Zygi to clear and a new place to move the goalposts to.
If the Vikings leave the state of Minnesota, the name “Zygi Wilf” will be way the hell down at the bottom of the list of people that deserve the blame for it.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 10, 2012 11:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So if you bitch enough they will just agree with you?
Leaving aside the absurdity of referring to the “state” as a single, much less constant, entity.
Don’t get me wrong. We should have fixed it long ago. But kibosh on the latest proposal was the Vikes. Thats on them.
Nope
The Vikings will just skip town, and all the people that whined about the Vikings wanting money for a stadium will whine that the Vikings are gone.
Either way, the whiners will have something to whine about, which I guess is really what’s important to them anyway.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 10, 2012 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
You Really can't see the irony?
In your wn whining?
Nope
Sick and tired of watching this team get jerked around by people that are more interested in saving their own jobs than they are in the greater good of the Vikings staying in Minnesota.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
Go root for the Raiders
I shouldn’t, but I keep getting more annoyed at you insisting that my tax money be spent how you would perfer.
And I say that as someone who is happy to have my tax money go to a stadium.
Nah
I think I’ll root for this team. And I think I’ll continue expressing my desire for them to get a new stadium.
Man, that free speech thing certainly is a bitch, isn’t it?
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 12:21 AM CST up reply actions
Oh, and for the record
About a quarter of the Vikings’ season ticket holders live outside of the state of Minnesota. I bet a lot of them want to see a stadium in Minnesota, too.
Go shoot your mouth off and talk down to some of them for a while.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 2:48 AM CST up reply actions
Got to agree I think the team has no choice but to just renew a short term lease back at the dome!
I don’t think any deadline the vikings have set are going to get resolved anytime soon, I listened to Zellers today talk about putting this all on the ballot and seeing if it gets approved by the voters at the end of the year.
They have no other place to go and they will have to ride it out until everything comes to a yes or no.. I am thinking that if nothing gets done within a maximum 2 years in Minnesota Ziggy will sell and let someone else try or the other option is anyone’s guess at this time. I really don’t think they will move.I think they will just keep grinding and hammering this issue until finally it comes to a close by getting a new stadium.
The vikings have great fans in MN and and a move does not make sense IMO. Best luck to the Vikes is all I can really say at this point.
by raider.freak on Feb 11, 2012 1:33 AM CST up reply actions
Dude
You’re devolving into meaningless whining. Why?
Because I'm sick of this crap
That’s why.
This collective of assholes has had over a decade to figure something out, and they’ve done jack. They cry about the funding, they cry about the location, and they cry about everything else.
Eventually, this team is going to get fed up with it, and Zygi Wilf will sell them to someone that will move them out of Minnesota, and the people that are crying about the stadium now will start crying about the fact that the Vikings left town. And they’ll blame the Vikings, even though all of us will know exactly who’s at fault.
It’s stupid. They need to get something done.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 10, 2012 11:15 PM CST up reply actions
Who is at fault
When the Vikes say, “that subsidy isn’t big enough?”
Also, when will you stop interpreting every step In the negotiation as the last?
They arent going anywhere for at least a year. For at least that long, it’s going to be better to keep negotiating than to sell. Stop pretending like every refusal to grant Zygi’s every fantasy means the team is leaving and people will take you far more seriously.
As it is, you at kind if a cry baby.
Whatever
Yeah, they get the privilege of continuing to lose money and continuing to get bent over by the city of Minneapolis for one more season, all so that the gutless cowards that were elected to make choices can put off a hard decision for another year.
Yep, the Vikings will probably sign a one-year lease with the Metrodome for the 2012 season. That means that everyone can breathe a collective sigh of relief and ignore the issue until after the 2012 season. And after the 2012 season over, we can listen to the same bunch of gutless cowards do the same damn thing that they’ve done this year.
Fricking awesome. I can’t wait.
If you don’t like my opinion on the stadium situation, too damn bad. It’s my opinion, and until something gets done, the opinion isn’t changing.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 10, 2012 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
They aren't losing money
And you must know that at this stage. Why can’t you debate this honestly? You’re discussing this with a fellow stadium supporter but you still make shit up. Why?
And if you don’t like that politics, like election years, plays into the availability of state funds, then, well, maybe you don’t want public funds.
Finally, I’ve been way too polite. The “getting bent over by Minnepolis” business is bullshit. You have no idea what you are taking about, you ignorant blowhard. “Minneapolis” has done nothing except try overcome its inherent political opposition for stadium subsidies to get something done to keep the team here and all you can say is, my favorite rich dude isnt getting enough tax payer money, waaah.".
Try rooting for keeping the team here and for fans stead for ownership for you small, dim, llittle man. Especially as you are so eager to spend tax money you don’t even pay in California.
Those of us who live here and pay taxes here want to get this done. We don’t give a flying crap what those who do neither think is “deserved” by anyone.
All Minneapolis has done
Is attempt to submarine every possible effort to put a stadium anywhere except Minneapolis by putting together half-assed plans that aren’t going to cover the costs of building a Vikings’ stadium anyway. They’ve said themselves that their funding plan is going to be anywhere from $55 to $100 million short. But by God, don’t you dare try to discuss putting that stadium anywhere but Minneapolis.
I’m rooting for the Vikings to stay in Minnesota, in case you’ve missed that over the past couple of seasons. But you know what? If they end up leaving, it sure as hell isn’t going to be the fault of the Minnesota Vikings. And if they leave town, I will cheer for them wherever they move to, and if the state of Minnesota does happen to get another NFL team (which is doubtful and will be significantly more expensive than getting a stadium built now), then they can pretty much kiss my ass and I sincerely hope that they go 0-16 every year.
This state has had a decade to get something done, and they have chosen to do nothing. Why don’t you put that on Zygi Wilf’s shoulders, too.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 12:05 AM CST up reply actions
You are a child
Who either doesn’t understand what’s going on, even though it is obvious, or would rather pretend not to.
But I’m leaving this for tonight. We can discuss more later. I just want you to think about there maybe being more than the two dimensions to the problem that you currently see.
It’s really not a Minnespolis vs surbubs thing, which you would now if you had read what Ted and Skol Girl have written, much less what members of this community have contributed.
Yeah, I understand fine, thanks
The state of Minnesota has shown pretty much zero desire to keep the Minnesota Vikings around, and zero effort to work with them to get something accomplished. Pretty easy to see that.
Since Minnesota obviously doesn’t want them, I’m guessing that Zygi Wilf will finally throw up his hands and sell the team to someone that will move them to a place that does. And Zygi and/or the new ownership will get blamed.
Oh, well. . .like I said, I won’t be losing my team. The state of Minnesota can take the Vikings away from Minnesota, but they certainly can’t take them away from me.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 12:19 AM CST up reply actions
I'm guessing
That your guesses on this issue will continue to be consistently wrong.
Haven't been wrong yet
Probably won’t start being wrong any time soon.
Thanks, though.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
bullshit
Minneapolis has done nothing but played politics this entire time.. they waited until the last possible moment to enter this race, only after telling the vikes to get fucked in the past… as soon as Wilf had a real partner elsewhere… then they submitted a “plan” that consisted of a whole 5 pages (including the cover sheet)… an absolute joke.. In minneapolis’s eyes, if they cant keep the vikes, no one should have them…. No one likes the Minneapolis site.. christ rybek cant even get the fucking council to agree on it… … Minneapolis had the past decade to get something done,, they chose to wait until the last fucking minute… so yes Gates has been saying, what I have been saying the entire time.. if it keeps them in MN,, the so be it, even if it is just under the table agreements and hush hush politice,, other wise…. Fuck minneapolis…
I believe that can be considered karma from the last
partner that the Vikes had…I believe it was Blaine.
Z
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Feb 10, 2012 11:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Basically,
The comment isn’t worth the precious time to read, therefore, skip over it by using the z function.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Feb 11, 2012 12:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Dude
You have devolved into the same, meaningless rhetoric. Anytime someone get’s upset with the State for blowing this again, something that has happened the past 10 years, more meaningless rhetoric on why is it’s the states fault. Every time anyone brings up the fact that Wilf has upped the contribution, more meaningless rhetoric on how it’s Wilf and the Vikings who have been dropping the ball and not the State.
Before telling others they are whining, sound meaningless or a child by the same things they preach, look in the mirror. You’re a bigger part of the meaningless, whinny sounding rhetoric then anyone. I’m really begging to wonder if you work for Minneapolis and willing to shoot and shout down any one of us that questions the State, the City of Minneapolis and the meaningless BS they have put the Vikings and the fans EVERYWHERE thru the last 10 years.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
by VikesFaninNM on Feb 11, 2012 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
Pretty much this.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 11:02 PM CST up reply actions
The state didn't say no to Ramsey County's newest proposal
The Vikings did. What about that is so hard to understand?
For once, they reject it
Yet the state has continuously rejected proposals, financing plans, pushed it aside, dropped the ball, come up with new and interesting ways to have plans submitted that already have been submitted and so one for the last 10 years.
What about that is so hard to understand?
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
by VikesFaninNM on Feb 12, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
the state hasn't rejected any financial plans
though they’ve rejected financing plans that would go against state law. How dare those bastards want the legislative community follow state law.
How can the legislature
“Go against state law?” They make state law.
And yes, the legislature most definitely did reject Ramsey County’s first two financing plans.
I'm not sure which is worse
Minnesota’s politics or Greece’s economy.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, it's just that your's is stupid.
www.vikescity.info
Minnesota's politics
Because, deep down, Greece probably knows they’re screwed.
Minnesota, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to possess that level of self-awareness.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 12:28 AM CST up reply actions
Okay
I’m as sick of this as anyone here but the legislature didn’t reject Ramsey County’s recent proposal; the Vikings did. If you want to be frustrated, fine, but at least put blame with the party it belongs with.
I’m also sure that the Vikings are more than willing to work with Ramsey County on a compromise.
by Amrius on Feb 10, 2012 11:39 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
The Vikings had a deal with Ramsey County
Then the whiners got their way and it had to be changed.
Sure, they’ll probably work out a compromise with Ramsey County. . .and it, too, will encounter whining to the point where it will go by the wayside.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 10, 2012 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
Possibly
But that hasn’t happened…yet. Stop treating the team saying no to a proposal like it’s somehow the legislatures fault and save for it when it actually is the legislatures fault.
This entire situation
Is the legislature’s fault, and it has been for the last decade.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 10, 2012 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, that's a broader topic than the thread headline
I was responding to the notion that the Vikings rejected Ramsey County’s proposal today, which has nothing to do with the legislature.
by Amrius on Feb 11, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
um...in a deal that takes 3 parties to sign on the dotted line
the deal isn’t binding for the two that agreed. In order to get the state to fast track this, compromises had to be made…except the Vikings don’t want a compromise. They want the money. The vikings saying they had an agreement is kind of like me going into court saying that I had an unsigned contract with you….the judge would laugh at me.
NFL teams make too much money to ask for public help
so our legislators are looking for an angle where they can get something out of it. Problem is, the local community can’t get anything directly financial out of an NFL stadium—too few games. So they put the team through the ringer.
by Are we cursed? on Feb 11, 2012 12:00 AM CST reply actions
Bullshit
They ask for public help because they can get it. They shouldn’t be judged for that.
But similarly the government shouldn’t be decried at every turn by the Chris’s of the world for trying to get a better deal.
Trying to get a better deal for nine years??
Honestly dude, you’re either an idiot or Skip Bayless.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Feb 11, 2012 12:47 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Don't worry too much, cowbell
I’m guessing that they’re just five or six years away from finally breaking through.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 1:09 AM CST up reply actions
I wonder if this is a sign to the NFL in regards to the Stadium financing.
In some essence Los Angeles has always told the NFL to go pound sand when it came to tax payer money. I don’t want to compare the 2 cities i am just sighting a trend here. It is coming to the point in this economy where host cities just can’t afford luxuries of NFL stadiums. Maybe the NFL needs to start thinking for the future because as of now almost every new stadium that has been built the cities the handed over the money are still paying out to their NFL teams and are loosing money in those cities. I heard Indy lost money by hosting the Superbowl when they should of been pulling in big tourism cash.. I am to tired to pull links but it appears this is the way it is heading. Maybe these US cities are finally telling the NFL no.
No surpri$e the Vike$ have i$$ue$ with new plan$.
The current conglomerate of 201 legislators, to nobody’s surprise, has both the team and any local partner in a catch-22: You need local partner money for the state to participate, but the state refuses to allow the locals to raise the money.
Seriously, where do government entities get their revenue? They get it from taxes; from you and me. So for the current crop of legislators to tell either Mpls or Ramsey County the state will not approve a regional tax is ludicrous. Without state authorization for specific local taxation there would be no Excel Center, Target Field, Convention Centers, and many other local facilities and services.
So I credit the current 201 for this gridlock. But this will change in 2013, after Minnesota voters hit the polls this Fall. It is an anomaly that the GOP has control of both legislative chambers here in sky- blue waters. The last time that occurred was… hmmm, let’s see… NEVER.
An old quote comes to mind as I contemplate how we got our current crop of legislators, “It’s the economy, stupid!”. A horrible economy, comatose housing debacle and record unemployment led to a massive voter uprising that ousted many career DFL legislators, especially Senators, from seats they held for decades.
But voters can only stay angry for so long, after which time they will return to their old voting habits. It’s in their political genetic code. Republicans inexplicably won many seats in historically safe DFL districts and that is unlikely to repeat.
We will likely see the Senate, and quite possibly the House, flip back to the DFL side of the aisle. Combine that with a DFL Governor and the game changes completely. It won’t be all peaches and cream, but increased cooperation atop the hill in St Paul by a political majority that doesn’t view taxes as the boogey-man will most certainly put an end to the stupid catch-22 that has so far scuttled all of the 2012 stadium proposals.
by Lars in SLP on Feb 11, 2012 8:27 AM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I wish you people would watch or read the ENTIRE news stories
the State will allow counties to raise taxes, just not by breaking State law by NOT PUTTING THE TAX INCREASE TO A VOTER REFERENDUM!
It's not breaking state law
To pass a law that says, “never mind that other law we passed, this one doesn’t require a referendum.”
Also, don’t believe politicians excuses about referendums. That’s just them trying to avoid accountability (which is why they like referendum requirements in the first place).
A monkey and a football come to mind (greased football & monkeys too)
I am starting to find humor in what is going on with the issues. Since when did politicians care about spending other’s money? WAIT FOR IT….
Oh yea, election year. Turnabout is fair play. Who IS REALLY holding up these deals? Start calling for these people’s heads on a platter on every radio/tv show locally. If they won’t get a deal done, find/elect someone that will. I would much rather talk about what a nice, new, wow what a stadium the Vikes have with all the bells and whistles. Build something that is state of the art, cost a boatload of money and everyone pitched in to get it done. It is the only logical thing to do.
Yes. One other team did have this much trouble. It's eerily similar actually.
And somewhat scary considering that team was the Baltimore Colts.
And we remember what happened to them, right?

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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
The original Cleveland Browns also had this kind of issue.
The Buffalo Bills are probably having it too… and one of those did the same as Baltimore, and the other is just waiting until their owner dies to jump to Toronto.
Bottom line, if the NFL wouldn’t have scuppered moving talk this year, I think it all would’ve hit the fan now. But instead, we get another offseason of the Legislature acting like this isn’t an issue, when anyone with 2 firing brain cells can see it is. I honestly don’t know why the League did that, even if they weren’t going to approve a move this season. All it does it give the whiners ammunition. The best thing to do was keep quiet and force the deadline.
I’d say that goes to Goodell hating the Vikes. Just a guess.
by Shawn Gillogly on Feb 11, 2012 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
Because, after all
It isn’t paranoia if they really ARE out to get you.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Rec'd
Simply for the use of the Rolling Stones
"If the scheme doesn’t fit your players, change your damn scheme."
Can we get off the 10 yrs thing?
Seriously, why should the Vikings have been let go from their lease? When the Metrodome was built, the Vikings WILLINGLY CONSENTED TO A 30 YR LEASE. 20 yrs into it, they want to walk, get the public to pay for a new stadium and not owe a dime on their lease. WHAT THE HECK? If you had rental property, would you pay for your a new building for your tenet, let him break your lease and be out a few hundred million dollars….NO YOU WOULDN’T. Honestly, you pro stadium people can’t seem to get past the emotive response. I will say, if the Vikings leave, that is their choice….it is a business decision. You all say that they have the right to try to get the best deal for themselves, after all, that’s what a business is supposed to do, right? I suppose then that the Government’s job is just supposed to hand over the money without thinking, without looking out for their own best interests, right? Because, after all, they are the Vikings. Where does this “rational” stop? Where do we draw the line? If XCEL Energy said that they need the state to pay for 5 new substations and 500 miles of new transmission lines, that it would bring jobs, would you people go for it? I’m guessing not, mainly because most of you probably don’t have a favorable opinion or an emotional tie to XCel.
Back to the topic of the story….THIS IS THE VIKINGS SAYING NO….NOT THE LEGISLATURE. The Vikings are being obstructionist in this one example. I for one am glad the Legislature is looking at various angles, various sites and trying to decide what is best for the state. Because, quite frankly, the Vikings do not have the States’ best interest at heart, despite their rhetoric.
And everyone worried about a move in the middle of the night….if your life will be broken apart by that move, perhaps you should take stock in other parts of your life. It’s a football team, it’s a business. Loyalty is a two way road. If they move, based on a business decision rather than staying in order to be loyal to their fan base, then you have no reason to be loyal to them. You have been loyal to them for 50 yrs. You should not have to show your loyalty by further bankrupting the state.
I'm still trying to get past the part where it is everyone but the Viking's fault
The Vikings own the team and Wilf is the CEO. Only in an alternate universe could anyone possibly think that it is the responsibility of everyone but the owner to get something done.
I know of no other thinking than that. If IBM makes mistakes and goes belly up, it is not the fault of any state legislature. If Apple makes $80 gazillion dollars selling I-Glops it is not because the Governor endorsed them. If Google finds a way to make money offa putting advertising on everything but your pillow labels then congrats to them.
It is not the fault of the Governor, Senate, House, Minneapolis, Ramsey, Arden Hills, Shakopee, Vikings fans, or even people on this website if the stadium doesn’t get built.
Wilf needs to buck up and start negotiating like a pro and also be more proactive instead of sitting on his rear and throwing things up against the wall and hope they stick somewhere.
This is the way I see it so far. Sadly, it reminds me more and more of the Vikings offense this last season, where they are just hoping for good things, not working their butts off to make sound decisions in the pursuit of achievement.
by liveforadrenaline on Feb 12, 2012 10:08 PM CST up reply actions

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