"Personal Problem" Apparently Kept Cris Carter Out Of Hall
by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 3:07 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings 2012 Off-Season
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PrintEverybody get your shocked faces ready.
According to a story on Pro Football Talk, it appears that the reason that Cris Carter did not reach the Hall of Fame this time around, as we speculated, has nothing to do with his career achievements and everything to do with a personal grudge somebody has against him.
The following two tweets come from Howard Eskin, a sports reporter out of Philadelphia. Got those shocked faces ready?
WR Cris Carter didn't make the Pro Football HOFI was told b cause female voter has personal problem w CC. Cost 4 votes. Missed by 1.
— Howard Eskin (@howardeskin) February 11, 2012
To be clear people close to WR Cris Carter were told by someone involved with HOF voters how he got screwed getting in
— Howard Eskin (@howardeskin) February 11, 2012
If this is even remotely true, then whoever this individual is needs to have their asses kicked off of the Hall of Fame voting committee ASAP. Whether an individual is worthy of induction to football's biggest shrine should have not one damn thing to do with the fact that someone doesn't think he's a very nice person. Yeah, Cris Carter probably wasn't a very nice person. . .he may have even been a complete prick.
He's also one of the greatest players in the history of the National Football League. Period. And, again, if you're going to take all the pricks out of Canton, you're going to be left with one large, mostly empty building.
Now, according to the Pro Football Hall of Fame website, there are only two female voters on the Hall of Fame voting committee. One of them is Nancy Gay, the San Francisco representative from FoxSports.com, and the other is an "at-large" voter named Charean Williams from the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. (I'm not sure how updated that list is, as Dan Wiederer is now the Minnesota representative and not Sid Hartman for example, but I wouldn't think that the number of female voters on the committee would have increased that much from 2011 to 2012. Not attempting to be sexist or anything, but that's just the way the committee is composed and sort of the nature of the beast when it comes to sports writing.) Now, I'm not saying that their credibility is pretty much shot if this somehow turns out to be even a little bit true, but. . .well, I don't have an honest way to finish that sentence, so I guess that's exactly what I'm saying after all, isn't it?
Once again, it appears that at least one person has the concept of being a Hall of Fame-worthy football player confused with being a nice person, and it cost Cris Carter his rightful spot in Canton. This is part joke, part outrage, and all something that needs to be corrected before it affects anyone again.
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HOF vote totals aren’t made public – even to the voters themselves – so someone, somewhere made some of this up.
by MattRichWarren on Feb 11, 2012 3:21 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
While that could be the case
I fail to see where Howard Eskin lying about something like this benefits him in any meaningful way.
That and the Pro Football Talk report cites a media source that “loudly complained about Carter” in the days leading up to the voting.
It all comes to the larger point. . .this is not the Pro Football Hall of Congeniality. It’s the Pro Football Hall of Fame. And if you think Cris Carter was a jerk, you’re free not to invite him to your parties and not send him a Christmas card. But the Hall of Fame voters are supposed to be evaluating on-field performance, and if this is even remotely true, somebody isn’t doing that.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions
cites a media source that "loudly complained about Carter"
He said my butt look big!!!!
this is funny.
by CbusVikesfan on Feb 11, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
While they may be private through the Voters and Hall itself
doesn’t mean someone else isn’t able to spill the beans. What ever the case, whether or not this is true, something is completely out of whack for a WR who is #4 all time to not being in the Hall at this point. And, if it is true that one person has a beef with Cris, then why is said person still on the Voting committee and not replaced with someone else/alternate until Cris is in the Hall? If said person has an issue with Cris’s early history, alcohol and drugs, why is it still an issue AFTER he got his head out of his butt, then why are those who are currently in the Hall there to begin with who have been busted dong much worse or after their careers are over? Something smells worse then a rotting corpse sitting in a septic tank with horse $hit for air fresheners.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
by VikesFaninNM on Feb 11, 2012 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
The most important stat
is not that CC is number four all-time,because he was not. CC was #2 all-time WHEN he retired. That is the only fact that matters, not what he is now, which is irrelevant – but still spectacular.
Lets give CC his due and say he was #2 when he retired. Twenty years from now he will be #18 or there abouts – are we going to say that then as a reason for his induction. Doesnt sound so good as a reason does it.
This is a travesty and the system for induction is a travesty. Lets push for reform!
by Day1VikesFan on Feb 12, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, I remember when
Steve Largent was #1 in receptions or career yardage….where is he now?
agree, this is more a speculative piece of fiction than fact
the only thing it confirms is what nfl fans have known all along, the hof voting process is suspect.
"the bengals are not a west of the 104 longitude team."
Sounds like we've got some "Come on, Man!" material for 2012 already.
Seriously though, my understanding is that the Hall of Fame votes up or down on 5 players in its final vote after culling the list down from 15 modern-era finalists (plus 2 senior players).
In advance of the Hall of Fame Selection Meeting in February, the selectors are provided detailed biographies on each of the 17 finalist candidates. At the annual meeting, each of the nominees is thoroughly discussed by the committee before a series of reduction votes are taken. First, the two senior candidates are discussed and voted on for election. They must receive the same 80 percent affirmative vote as the modern-era candidates. Next, the there is a vote that reduces the modern-era finalists list from 15 to 10. Following that, a vote is taken to reduce the list from 10 to 5 names. The five remaining candidates for Hall of Fame election are then voted on individually (yes or no) for membership.
In order for Cris Carter to make it into the Hall of Fame he would have had to beat out the 5 modern-era finalists that ended up making it in. Curtis Martin, Chris Doleman, Willie Roaf, Cortez Kennedy and Dermontti Dawson. That’s an impressive list, and I think it’s tough to blame the fact that Cris isn’t in the Hall of Fame solely on the fact that a woman on the 44 person selection committee didn’t support him.
As a Vikings fans, I do agree that it’s hard to believe that Cris Carter isn’t in the Hall of Fame. However, when I see the competition, I begin to understand how tough it is to get into the HoF. Now if Bettis had made it and not Carter, I’d be pissed.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
But by that same token
With a 44-person committee and requiring 80% approval to get in, all it takes is 8 “no” votes. If this individual influenced three others to vote “no,” then that means you’d only need four other people.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 11, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
The votes need to be made public
Hiding behind the shroud of anonymity to act like a back stabbing ass is not acceptable. This whole process tarnishes the accomplishments and the recognition.
Yes, but that's sort of the point.
Maybe there is one slightly unhinged, mean-spirited woman on the 44 member committee, but in order for her to be able to bring 3 other votes along with her she’d have to be saying something pretty reasonable. Either her arguments are logical, or they aren’t. Getting independent voters to agree with her suggests that whatever she said had some merit…
…or perhaps it’s just that the other 5 guys who ended up being HoF inductees were more impressive to the Committee, and the whole angry woman angle is a red herring. In order for Carter to get on the Final 5 list, one of this year’s inductees would have to get the boot. I don’t know who I’d drop. I just don’t think one angry woman is what kept Carter out of the Hall this year. It was stiff competition from a bunch of guys who also deserved to get into the HoF. It kind of stinks for Cris and Vikings fans, but I don’t think that it’s likely that it’s one woman’s personal grudge that is keeping Carter out of the HoF.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
I would take CC on my team over those 5 in a heartbeat
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
If I was building a team from scratch...
…I’d be pretty tempted to take Willie Roaf first. Still, Cris Carter would have made anybody’s team better.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
Who do you drop?!?!
Those are all great players but are they top 2 or 3 at their position all time? Because there is a strong case to be made (both statistically and observationally) that Carter is. Certainly top 5. I wouldn’t even put some of those guys in the top 10 of their position.
I don’t care who he’s up against. Carter = not in = travesty = period.
I think you are right that Carter should get into the HoF.
However, to say he’s top 2 or 3 at his position all time is a bit much. He wasn’t even the Vikings’ best receiver once Moss joined the Vikings.
Carter had awesome hands, ran great routes, was a big target, was a great blocker and rarely missed games. He also worked hard in practice and was a good influence in the locker room from what I recall. His stats are impressive. However, I think those other guys who made the HoF were also pretty darn impressive. There wasn’t a slouch in the bunch.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
Its kind of an unfair comparison
I think both Moss and Carter are some of the best to play their position. However Carter was never a burner, he made his living by being one of the best route runners and having the best hands in the NFL. Heck the Vikes even had Jake Reed, who easily could’ve been the number two with Moss. The fact that we even have to discuss whether he is HoF worthy is sad – he definitely earned it.
But yes I do agree, it would be hard to pick one player from this year’s group and say “no he didn’t deserve it” very solid class. Problem is he already should’ve been voted in.
"none of us is a fan of the team" - Judd Zulgad (also fabricated the "schism" reports of 09')
The votes should be public,
and to be honest, if any claims are made to be true, said person should be banned from sports-related voting if they truly didn’t vote for Carter because of a held grudge. That’s completely and utter BS.
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
This isn't news
This is the rumor mill that is twitter. That second tweet is key: "people close to Chris Carter heard from people close the HoF, blah, blah, blah. How is that any different than, "Hey, this friend of mine has a friend, and he said “X, Y, Z”.
Howard Eskin or not, in the “instant news” cycle that is Twitter (I hate twitter btw), people will post anything just to keep their feed current. Unless, and until the votes are made public (or until someone actually comes forward and admits anything), this is just a bunch of rumor-mongering. Does it suck that CC didn’t get into the HoF? Absolutely. Should he already be in the HoF? Absolutely. But, I don’t buy this particular reason for a second.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Oh, and btw
All of this negative press will only make his eventual entry into the HoF come all the more sooner. The longer he keeps getting passed over, the louder the critics will get in wondering why he’s not in. He’ll get in eventually.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
One way to find out if this is possibly true
is for someone (a lot closer to those in the know than anyone here) to dig up some dirt and find out who has a beef with CC. Perhaps, if it was one of the women, he made some lewd comments to her back in the day. Or, perhaps it could be as simple as finding out if the 8 voters were Packer’s fans…lol
If true........
more evidence that there are WAY too many females involved in sports. Thank you Title IX.
by Mel Allen on Feb 11, 2012 7:11 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
That seems incredibly sexist.
There are many women out there who are very knowledgeable about sports. I have many female friends who know more about sports or even the Vikings than most men I know. In fact, one of the writers for this site is female and I bet she could run circles around you in Vikings knowledge. There are a few females involved with sports who don’t know that much, just as there are many men who are involved with sports who don’t know very much. Stupidity exists in both genders. Just because someone is a woman, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be around sports if they deserve to be. We no longer live in the ’40s.
by SirGrizzly on Feb 11, 2012 9:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Seems incredibly sexist?
There’s no “seems” about it. That’s straight-up sexist. There’s no reason women can’t write competently about football. None.
by Birdman84 on Feb 11, 2012 9:16 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
There is a reason now, it would seem.......
label it what you wish, no problem. I said there are too many. I didn’t say there shouldn’t be any women in sports.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 12:34 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Very nice.....
so, what was wrong with the forties? Why are people always so quick to be offended? You are a bright, shiny knight to leap to the defense of the fairer sex, bravo. IMHO, there ARE too many females involved with MALE sports. Sorry, just my observation. You don’t like it, look away.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 12:39 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
That's just a silly attitude to have.
I don’t feel women need a “shining knight”, as you called it, to stand up for them because there are women out there who have proven that they can write competently about football or any other “male” sport and they don’t need their work torn down purely from a sexist standpoint. If a woman can do it, she should sure be able to do it. Like I said, stupidity exists in both sexes (as I think we all can tell). If this was a man who did it, you wouldn’t say there were too many men sports writers. That’s the point where I call bullshit. Maybe there are just too many sports writers who don’t actually know what they’re talking about. Also, I said we don’t live in the forties anymore because it would appear that that is where your views on women are coming from. And since when is it a bad thing to stand up to someone who is saying bad things about other people?
You are a bright, shiny knight to leap to the defense of the fairer sex, bravo.
Condescending things like that make me feel like this conversation has no point in going any further. I’m not about to get into another flame war with someone who has ridiculous views and are okay with them. If you have any respect for the rest of the people here, you will not continue either.
by SirGrizzly on Feb 12, 2012 1:15 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I have to thank you
for taking on the role of lightning rod with this topic. I was going to post something similar, which I agree with you, though decided against it. I knew someone would get bent out of shape for stating the obvious.
Both of you are idiots
Stop posting. You’re making yourselves look bad.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
by CCNorsemen on Feb 12, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Why do you think this post was even submitted?
Why did Eskin, in his tweet, refer to a “female” reporter? He could have omitted the gender reference. Why did he not?
An idiot is one who blindly subscribes to anything that is handed down to them by the culture, without any independent thought. That is an idiot.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So if that's an idiot,
then what do you call someone who takes an unconfirmed rumor and uses it to spout his neanderthal sexist bullshit? I agree with you, idiot is not strong enough.
Mel, it isn't about being politically correct.
And, your original comment does not get polished up by adding “If true” to the beginning of it. It is and will always be a narrow-minded, misogynistic viewpoint that has no place in modern society. I’ve seen enough of your comments to know that you are filled with viewpoints like this one. You think they are the byproduct of original thinking. I think they are the byproduct of a defective brain. It doesn’t matter, because in time they will be weeded out naturally.
by Ben T on Feb 13, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Blah, blah, blah........
It most certainly is about PC. For you to arrogantly state that a viewpoint “HAS NO PLACE” in modern society is the very definition of political correctness. It is one thing to disagree with an opinion. It is entirely something else to claim to know what is or is not acceptable.
Defective brain? Who are you, the Nurse Ratchett of the DN? Weeded out? Kiss my behind Nazi swine.
Mel, you are awarded
one internet point for referencing One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest. Too bad there is a standing order for your internet points to be immediately donated to the National Organization for Women because you are a troglodyte.
Nazi?
Yeah, you’ve just confirmed that you’re a ignorant jackass troll.
Troll away.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
Whoa!
Didn’t see that one coming, but there’s one in every crowd…or at least 3 in this case, given the 2 rec’s it has generated so far.
If true, how does 1 person’s animosity towards Carter indict an entire sex? That would be like assuming your comment represents the thinking of the rest of us here at the Daily Norseman.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 12, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
In today's world......
men are constantly bashed, denigrated, and generally made to appear as idiots when compared to the ladies. Take a close look at what passes as entertainment or advertising in television, print, etc. Is there something wrong with an opposing view?
Now, I, for one, do not worship at the altar of political correctness. Many here know that already.
Nowhere do I assume my thinking reflects anyone else’s, let alone an entire community. That does not change anything, however. I stand by MY comment.
One in every crowd? Isn’t it YOU who presume to know what all others think or believe? Not me.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I only presume to know what you think.
And only because you laid it out there for all to see.
I’m a man and don’t feel in the least bit heckled, bashed, denigrated or made to feel like an idiot. If you really think that it’s an issue in today’s world, why would you engage in the same sort of behavior towards women? That’s just evening the score rather than righting a wrong.
Your statement about women in sports doesn’t have much to do with political correctness one way or the other. It just comes across as mean spirited and reactionary. Women are a fact of life in sports and just about everywhere else… including our country’s armed services. That fact has made our country better not worse as has been the case with a number of other social movements over the past 100 years that have opened up our society for people of different sexes, races and faiths to participate in and enjoy.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
Initially, I said, "IF TRUE"...as to the story
that a female reporter is keeping a highly accomplished former player from taking his rightful place in the hall. And, again, if true, the same said reporter is basing this solely on an emotional matter that should have nothing to do with the criteria for entrance. Now, it is indisputable that t a female rather than a male would allow emotion to enter into decision making.
Title IX is ALL about political correctness sir. So is the entrance of women into “combat” aspects of military service. They have, for generations, played a vital support role in our armed services. Extending that to front line combat is an entirely different matter, IMHO.
You presume that there are very few who would agree. Sounds like wishful thinking.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually...
what you wrote was…
If true……..more evidence that there are WAY too many females involved in sports.That’s the sum total of what you wrote. You didn’t suggest it was a problem with one particular female writer. You suggested it was a problem with women as sports writers in general.
it is indisputable that t a female rather than a male would allow emotion to enter into decision making.
People, male and female, allow their emotions to get the better of them when making decisions, and the advertising industry prospers as a result.
You presume that there are very few who would agree. Sounds like wishful thinking.
Do I presume that there is only a small minority of people who think that there are too many women in sports? Yes, I do. Most people are too busy to care.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
But some are not too busy.....
to have an opinion on someone else’s opinion. Got it.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 5:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Consider this.....
do YOU watch the WNBA? If not, why not? Why are their ratings horrible and their attendance even worse? Why does the league still exist, other than to be artificially propped up by the NBA?
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And......
why is the strategy used by the only existing female professional football league is to clad them in underwear? Do they not make a mockery of themselves by doing so?
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If you'd had a point to make, you've now lost me.
But out of sheer curiosity, I’ll pull this thread and see where it goes.
The fact is that I could care less if a group of men or women want to play a sport fully clothed, in underwear or buck naked. I’ll watch and support the stuff that interests me and ignore the stuff that doesn’t.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
Beyond the ridiculousness of female pro football
and roller derby and such if you look at this list of all time female athletes you’ll find that these women had to train there asses off same as any man has had to pretty much. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/siforwomen/top_100/1/ – Even many of the women in the WNBA have practiced and trained hard during high school and college – no matter what the state of the league. Imo you’re doing a disservice to these athletes by minimalized their accomplishments and comparing them to the likes of the scantily clad group. Should Skol Girl have been allowed to go with Ted to Viking training camp? Of course. I just know that if I’m the father of a hard working female athlete or the father of a girl who chooses journalism as a career and enters into the sports arena, I am extremely proud and encouraging to them no matter WHAT any one else says.
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
by abba7 on Feb 12, 2012 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Being hard working and doing what you want is fine........
but, the WNBA is propped up artifically. It cannot survive on its own. Why did the USFL disappear, or the WFL, or the ABA for that matter? Why should any professional sports league be kept going when it is clearly unsustainable?
The point of the LFL is that it makes a mockery of both the game of football, and women. It is clearly a tacit admission on the part of the league’s hierarchy that a plain vanilla, WNFL so to speak, would have NO shot at making it.
If ANY journalist ignores a player’s body of work, and is guided by emotion and hurt feelings, and this impacts a vote, that is an outrage.
The VAST......
majority on the list, other than tennis and golf, involve amateur/Olympic athletics. Who knew Jean Driscoll was a champion wheelchair racer? She comes in at #25.
Team sports only involve basketball, soccer, volleyball, hockey (field, I presume) and a couple bringing up the rear for baseball.
Oh, a HORSE came in at #53. Yay.
LOL!
I did notice #53. I count Secretariat as one of life’s best male athletes so it’s fair I guess. I was just responding to your blanket statement about too many female athletes although for some reason I suspect your intention was to suggest something about female journalists, in this case the one who supposedly had a problem with Carter. This would make a pretty good fan post for someone sometime – the issue of females covering male sports, locker room access, etc etc.
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
My intention was to say what I said.....
that there are TOO many females involved in men’s sports. That is what I said earlier. I stand by it.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You added "men's"
to this statement:
more evidence that there are WAY too many females involved in sports. Thank you Title IXBig difference. (I did notice you amended it further down.)
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this I guess, a rarity.
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
Cheers abba......
so this is what it is like to be Skip Bayless.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No, I do not watch the WNBA (is there even a league anymore?)
And I don’t watch it, because I don’t enjoy watching it. However, just because I don’t enjoy something doesn’t mean that I begrudge others who do. Nor would I suggest that the women who play basketball should do something else that I prefer to watch. I think televised men’s bowling is worse than watching grass grow, but so what? If it’s on television, I change the channel to find something I prefer watching.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
Until this moment...
…it never occurred to me that someone wouldn’t know what she meant when she said that. Is it a compliment? No. It’s a joke.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
I had no idea that the only reason why women were allowed to be sports writers was because of Title IX
I just thought that Title IX applied only to the playing of sports in college or high school, rather than becoming a journalist.
by Chris3 on Feb 12, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
It is the elephant in the room........
nothing more.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Using logic and reality to counter dumbass bigotry?
That won’t work. Silly logical person.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Feb 12, 2012 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
How smart can YOU truly be?
Seriously. Come on.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Clearly smarter than at least one person in this room.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Feb 12, 2012 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
No, not really......
just a bomb thrower with a keyboard. Either bring a point of view to the table or go away. Anyone can name call. THAT doesn’t take thought. Maybe in your neckuvdawoods.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My point of view is that you're a misogynst twit who doesn't even know what he's talking about
My evidence is this entire thread. Title IX is to blame for female journalists? The fact that we don’t watch the WNBA means we need a lot fewer women in sports?
You think male sportswriters with spots on HOF voting boards in all the sports haven’t let things other than a player’s stats get in the way of voting someone in? You don’t think there are plenty of athletes whose spot in a HOF has been delayed because male sportswriters thought they were an asshole? Hell we have an example right here – If Eskin’s tweets are correct, at least 2 or 3 men had to agree with this woman.
Nah, you’d just rather stick to blaming women. I don’t envy whatever woman winds up as/already is your wife. Must be a fun home life.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Feb 12, 2012 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Back to the beginning........
if a female had an impact on CC’s entrance into the HOF because her feelings were hurt or if she was offended by something he said outside of the white lines, that is directly related to her gender. Period. Sorry if this view does not mesh with how we all wished things to be. It just is.
Athletes have been kept out of their respective HOFs, but, in most cases, if not all, it has to do only with either rules violations, banishment, or a combination of the two. The HOFs are replete with “assholes”, as you put it. It is the good guy who usually is the exception.
When you stand for nothing, you fall for anything. I could not care less what you think. At least I can generate some sort of thinking from those who otherwise would have read the story with their eyes glazed over, looking to read only about what their favorite stars are doing lately.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"When you stand for nothing, you fall for anything"
You stand for misogyny. Congrats.
And what is your explanation for why 2-3 men would agree with this woman, if blocking a player for doing something off the football field is “directly related to her gender.” Are they secretly women passing themselves off as men? Maybe they’re hermaphrodites, such that they have some of that female taint in their genes.
Yeah, you’ve generated some sort of thinking alright. Sucks that that thinking is generally that you’re just an ass. But you got us thinking about it!
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
How does it feel......
to “have your mind right?” Very, very sad.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Critical thinking.......
involves more than PC kneejerk reactions and name calling. Try it. It can be invigorating.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
PST, Mel Allen
The 1950s, where bashing on women was cool, is so 60 years ago. General, sexist statements like the following are not evidence of “critical thinking”, or “idependent thought”. It’s only evidence of sexism and misogyny.
there are WAY too many females involved in sports. Thank you Title IX.
if a female had an impact on CC’s entrance into the HOF because her feelings were hurt or if she was offended by something he said outside of the white lines, that is directly related to her gender. Period.
Now, it is indisputable that t a female rather than a male would allow emotion to enter into decision making.
Take your gender-hating trolling somewhere else. Or better yet, just do the human race a favor and stop opening your mouth to express whatever drivel your mind has cooked up.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
by CCNorsemen on Feb 12, 2012 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
First the forties are bashed, now the fifties........
curious how the PC mind never bemoans the sixties. PSST, CC, a human mind can have tremendous love for women, which I do, while at the same time have ideas that may seem to fly in the face of that very thing. It is called complexity. You are the marching in lockstep, mind controlled type who is afraid to harbor seemingly dissonant concepts for fear of being labelled something by the thought police. Which, is why, when you see it, like my comments, you go off the rails to attack it, just to appease your own weaknesses.
Ever have a controversial opinion before? About ANYTHING? Or are you happy just going along with the program to get along?
So, if we have an opinion that disagrees with your (blatantly sexist) opinion, that means we’re brainwashed. If we don’t think there are too many women in sports, we’re afraid of the thought police. If we disagree with your opinion, it’s because we can’t engage in “critical thinking.”
Gotcha.
Have you ever considered the thought that maybe you’re just an ignorant ass?
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Feb 12, 2012 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
zzzzzz
Grow up dude. Your comments are sexist. We live in a society where sexism is frowned upon. Admit that you made a mistake and move on.
You can have the opinion that there are too many women in sports, and that’s fine. I disagree, completely. As to your other comments about “emotions” being dependent on gender, and the other nonsense, it’s pretty clear that you have no understanding of humans. We’re all emotional beings, and emotions drive us to do and say things.
It’s obvious from your continual, and unrelenting self-defense in this thread that your emotions are clearly getting the better of you.Your decision to keep posting and responding must be driven by emotion. Hmm, by your own definitions and ideas…you must be a woman. Because according to you, “it is indisputable that t a female rather than a male would allow emotion to enter into decision making.”
Mel, you’re not making any sense. Please go away.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
by CCNorsemen on Feb 12, 2012 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Every era has its good and bad points
To claim otherwise is nonsensical. Mel’s initial comment is not misogynistic in tone nor intent. People, thanks to what many perceive is expected of them, throw around words that have attained new, though inaccurate, meaning in the age of political correctness and the era where no one is allowed to have hurt feelings. That is diametrically opposite to what the founding of the nation was based on.
Mel does not hate women, and I suspect, quite the contrary is the case given his venomous attack and disgust during the Chris Cook affair. He has an opinion, which is allowed to be aired because I suspect everyone here is a proponent of freedom of speech, or so they fancy themselves. Yet, as is the case in societies where thinking is slowly frowned upon and parroting is cheered, freedoms are gradually taken away and people celebrate those the events.
He has the right to speak his mind and in this context, no crime has been committed…yet. Though in 2020 that may not be the case and therein lies the rub with all the cavalier, self proclaimed “women defenders” when they trip over each other in order to shout down the “misogynist” the loudest.
So, when are we going to get our first women players in the NFL? Reductio ad absurdum.
by Murgo on Feb 12, 2012 9:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So Mel's allowed to have an opinion....
But we’re not allowed to have our own opinion…that is, to say that his opinion is ridiculously misogynistic. Gotcha.
I love how when you disagree with certain people, they suddenly start shouting that “Everyone is infringing on my right to have an opinion!”
No, we’re just telling you what we think of your opinion. Get over yourself. No one is taking away your freedoms. We’re just telling you that we think you two have a bigoted opinion.
That’s OUR right. You’re not the only one who gets to speak up.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Feb 12, 2012 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Just have an original opinion.......
I knew that I would hear responses such as yours. So did Murgo. You are predictable. And, as such, boring. Speak up all you want. The world is better when there is NOT one strain of thought.
by Mel Allen on Feb 12, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So our opinion has to be “original” now to be right.
Well, I guess I can’t say racism is wrong. Because that’s unoriginal. People have been saying that for decades. Can’t say rape is wrong either. That’s so unoriginal.
Your opinion isn’t “original.” It’s the same thing bigots have been saying ever since women got into sports. It’s the same thing they said with Title IX. It’s the same thing they said when they entered the workforce in general.
“Original” my ass.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
by Packers3485 on Feb 12, 2012 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
No......
it needs to be original to be INTERESTING. To equate my opinion about the overabundance of female involvement in men’s sports with racism and rape (?) takes moral equivalence to a new level.
Try again…….
For person of conviction you seem to waffle a lot
…you didn’t include the word “men’s” sports in your original statement. Nor in your reaffirmation of that statement. And nor in your questions about the WNBA and lingerie league football, etc.
Your original statement was dopey. As well as everything you’ve written after that point.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
He's just trying to cover his bigoted ass
Nevermind that if he meant “men’s sports,” none of his original comments make sense (not that they made sense to begin with).
Title IX is to blame….for having too many female journalists….in men’s sports?
Brilliant, “original” opinion.
But his reply to you confirms my original suspicion. He just wants attention. The trademark of a lonely troll.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
His reply confirms his loose grasp on reality...
…as 40 hours of infamy ought not to equate to 3 days worth of anything let alone a sense of flattery.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
Interesting conclusion.
That suggests you long for a black and white kitten.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
You two project way too much......
on me. Maybe you are a couple of wife beaters who are still in therapy? If you are going to hurl insults, at least have perspective. Bigoted, racist, misogynist are all YAWNERS. Maybe you two circle jerkers can put your heads together to do better.
by Mel Allen on Feb 13, 2012 7:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds like you are getting emotional.
Don’t let it affect your decision making.
And BTW, I haven’t called you any names, though I can’t disagree with those who have.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
This is incorrect
He made a statement. The immediate reactions were all emotional, mean spirited, self righteous and nearly everyone, yes you were not one, called him names. He has not responded emotionally.
Your attempt to mock him by labelling him “emotional”, which implies woman-like, since you want to use his words against him, indirectly is calling him names. Not to mention condoning others who have. Either it is wrong or right. Apparently your answer is dependant on who you side with.
And I honestly believe you project emotionality in dialogue where there is none.
I see.
He’s just resorting to name calling and hysterical claims of a PC conspiracy with dispassion. That would be “original.”
And in point of fact, the entire argument that there are too many women in sports is itself an emotion ally-driven statement that appears to have something to do with his belief that “men are are constantly bashed, denigrated, and generally made to appear as idiots when compared to the ladies.” Maybe his inflammatory statements are the source of the feedback he’s getting from “the ladies.”
The reactions to his statement (and your support of it) strike me as being pretty reasonable. And my response to his apparent blindness to the emotions in all of us also seems appropriate.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 14, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Again
You are projecting emotion into his original statement. As well as all other of his responses, though I cannot blame someone for becoming emotional when attacked, and that is what was done. This nonsense, where it is deemed appropriate to attack and name call under the guise of concern, enlightenment, and societal norms and mores is juvenile, at best.
Yeah, he's not emotional
He called someone a Nazi (twice) upthread because he disagreed with him. Accused us of beating our wives because we object to his bigotry. But he obviously didn’t do any of that emotionally.
Obviously.
Angelo: Right….so anyways Jay, I’m sure you understand that we needed to make this move and I wanna wish you the best of luck.
Cutler: (Swoops bangs out of eyes by throwing his head back) Whatever, I don’t need this team or you.
/Leaves in a huff
//Writes bad poetry on his blog
Grossman: What the fuck is Wilford Brimley’s problem?
You two run in a strange crowd.
I haven’t heard anyone else mention that calling people Nazis is simply a form of mocking. The suggestion of which, by the way, is particularly ironic as it is the two of you who have been suggesting that certain groups of people ought to be excluded from certain professions.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 14, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Heard of it.
Never seen it done in such poor taste and with such obliviousness to the irony of the comment and its source.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
An ongoing discussion...
regarding a possible mischaracterization. Cry me a river. My one comment was responded to with dozens of them, and not ONCE did I cry foul.
Maybe a nerve was struck when I used the term to define those who would, if possible, eliminate certain thoughts from the public arena, to cleanse the dialogue, so to speak.
That is on you, not me.
Unreal
I feel like bulldozing the hall of fame, what a joke. If I were in Carter’s position I would just tell them to forget it next year, he doesn’t need the HoF he is already one of the best to every have played the game. No way could I accept an award from them after being snubbed year after year only to learn it was a personal issue.
"none of us is a fan of the team" - Judd Zulgad (also fabricated the "schism" reports of 09')
that uffing unt.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
by krinkle on Feb 12, 2012 2:30 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Where to begin?
This news about someone not being nice doesn’t deserve to be in the Hall is fairly new concept to me. I know this has already been said that if kindness was an attribute there may be very few that would be allowed into the Hall of Fame. I’m going to get to the tip of the iceberg on people who were deemed NOT NICE during their playing days or coaching days.
Vince Lombardi. According to reports, if events that took place in 2000’s as they took place in his day, feminists would have demonized this man to the ends of the earth because what he did would constitute as domestic emotional violence. Do I think he belongs in the Hall? Of course, but there’s something to be said about consistency in the voting.
Dick Butkus. As far as nice goes apparently off the field there are no issues. However, if you talk about interviews back in the day about how he plays the game, there’s no question that he makes it sound violent. Even by today’s standards, Ray Lewis could not talk about himself attempting to hit the opponent or any opponent in a way that causes pain or fear. [Correct me if I’m wrong…more on Ray later] Does he deserve a place in the Hall regardless of his thuggish way of playing. Hell yes!
Deacon Jones. This is probably one of the better examples and I have a lot of respect for the guy and what he did for the progression of defensive lineman (for the most part). That being said, back then to even now this guy talks about how he wanted to hurt the qb back in the day. He wanted to injure them is such a way that they wouldn’t be able to play football again. Could you imagine a player saying this today? James Harrison is a newborn kitten compared to Deacon Jones. Even interviews before this years Super Bowl he said he would still try to injure qb’s or other offensive players even with the rule changes. He would do it in such a way that was legal but that was his goal. My question is, why does the media give him a pass while James Harrison is seen as the incarnation of evil? [Seriously, look at footage of Deacon Jones tripping, cleating, spearing] Do I believe he should be in the Hall? Absolutely!
I don’t know how Alan Page was off the field other than reserved, but on the field he was just as much of a diva as Cris Carter. (Although they are both tame compared to the receivers of the 2000s, take off the Vikings goggles for a second and objectively look at that). Page was called for offsides a lot but only because he was so damn fast and the film proves it. Page will also tell you that he’s slightly embarrassed of the way he used to act ON the field. Does Alan deserve to be in the Hall? Is that even a question? Probably the best defensive lineman of all time that needs far more attention than the NFL talking heads give. How many punts did this guy block?
Lawrence Taylor. As Jim Rome would say, “Phenomenal”. But this guy had done everything at least on a subconscious level to destroy his public image. If we are talking about personal demons when we put someone in the Hall, this man should never be mentioned again in the NFL. Do I believe that to be the case? No. My point is just going by “standards” that this so called “expert” in casting votes for Hall of Fame entry.
Carl Eller. Another defensive lineman that is either forgotten or not mentioned on a national level that certainly deserves it. This man was dressing like a pimp in his day while Viking fans may have found it amusing, he was like “Prime-Time” with all the suits far before “Prime-Time” burst onto the scene. Perception of arrogance was in no short supply. Again, another example of someone who is probably not considered likeable outside the Vikings fans/organization.
Speaking of “Prime Time”. I can’t imagine anyone liking this guy back in the day unless he played for your team. Hell, when this guy played for the 49ers and played against Atlanta, they all booed him. Same case with going back to San Fran when he was with the Cowboys. If that wasn’t enough, he seemed like a complete ass in front of the camera. Off camera, he’s a different person and I actually respect the guy quite a bit nowadays. [Have Vikings fans ever booed a former player that came back to play against us? Seriously someone help me out here?]
Lastly, I’m not even going to dive too much into Michael Irvin. Lack of statistics and lack of respect for other people other than himself far exceed the “lack of stats and lack of respect” that Cris Carter has. ’Nuff said.
Finally, Cris Carter is still my favorite receiver as a whole and he is missed a lot. Randy Moss is a very close second but I wish we could’ve won a Super Bowl with him in the ‘98-2000 stretch when is seemed possible the most. A different legacy of Randy Moss would be discussed. Heck, he might still have been a Viking for until 2015. Cris Carter did so much for the Wide Receiver position that even today, “elite” receivers with the exception of Fitzgerald are not able to do. To the High Horse-Hall-of-Fame voter, THESE ARE FACTS. Please consider ALL the facts and not just isolated facts for one situation that you ignore the big picture. New precedents should not be set based on emotion or the “warm feelings” that a player gives you. Speaking of which, in 1999 Cris Carter won the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award. I know it may seem I’m grasping at straws at the last part. But someone who gives reasons to why he shouldn’t be in the Hall and it outweighs his accomplishments is grabbing at sh** covered straws.
by Mike S on Feb 12, 2012 8:59 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
What a great post
I will also add to it:
When Lawrence Taylor was up for induction into the hall, there were a lot of sports writers who were making a big deal about his off the field activities/personality. Then-commissioner Paul Tagliabue made a public statement the day before the vote saying that he believed that the hall should judge the candidates on FIELD performance – nothing else. This silenced the anti-LT crowd and he was voted in. Perhaps it is time for Goodell to make a statement along those same lines, people must have forgotten the rules.
"none of us is a fan of the team" - Judd Zulgad (also fabricated the "schism" reports of 09')
Ray Lewis
I forgot about Ray Lewis. Are we going to hear about personal problems when it’s Ray Lewis’s turn? At the same time, WR are in a logjam in trying to get into the Hall wheras Linebackers are fewer. Urlacher and Lewis may be the only from the same era that are going to be considered immediately. (Please fill me in if I have forgotten another elite linebacker) I have no bones to pick with Ray at all. However, are they going to bring up the fact he killed a man? I don’t see anyone trying to remove OJ from the Hall? If personal problems are such a roadblock, they should evict some of the current residents based on their own guidelines and requirements! [Personally, OJ should be in because what he did back within the parameters of 60s and 70s football is amazing.]
london fletcher?
of course, Kevin Greene (#2 all time in sacks) still isn’t in, either…
Shaner021 FanShot
There is a great article on this topic that was linked by Shaner021 in a fanshot. I typically don’t see/read fanshots and suspect that’s true for some others here as well. I thought I’d share the link here with thanks to Shaner021 for finding the link and sharing it in the first place.
http://sports-kings.com/downanddistance/?p=208
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
I don't care
if you’re a man, a woman, a one-eyed, one horned flying purple people eater (no pun intended, believe it or not), if you don’t think CC deserves to be in the HoF, you don’t know Jack. Manningham’s incredible catch that everyone is raving about? Carter made catches like that on a regular basis. No receiver, ever, made better use of the sidelines. He made journeyman QBs look like world beaters. All they had to do was throw it in the vicinity of CC where the DB couldn’t get to it first (and given the separation he usually had, that was a pretty good area), and Carter would manage to come down with it. I saw catches from him that I’m willing to swear on a stack of Origin of the Species and Brief History of Time books violated several laws of physics. Granted, as a Vikings fan, I’m a bit biased, but even compared to other Vikings receivers (Moss and AC, for example, the latter of still has a good bit of my heart, as his prime years were in my formative years), CC is head and shoulders above them.
I love me some Andre Reed, the Bills are my second favorite team (how’s that for big game pain, lol), and he came from where I grew up, but CC is way better than him. And while I’m biased against Irvin and Rice, as I hated both of their teams when I was growing up (I still hate the Cowboys, but only tepid about the 49ers now), and I didn’t see many of their games when they weren’t playing the Vikes, but I saw enough head to head matches, and CC got the better of both of them, imho. Both were definitely great players, and Rice’s longevity and continued production is astounding. But neither could do what CC could do. That they haven’t found a place for someone so groundbreaking is a travesty, and is further proof of how worthless popularity contests like HoF and award shows are.
One word of caution
If this report is true, we do not know what this woman’s complaints about Carter were. I can imagine some things that might rightly sway a few votes.
“Not nice” isn’t a relevant criticism, but something like “assaulted me in the locker room” might be a reason for opposition.
I rather doubt it was that, primarily because if it was we likely would have heard about the accusation but also because that doesn’t seem like something he would do. But I think we’ve all be surprised before.
Hall of Fame official
I thought that old cheesehead at the strib, mark craig, was a hall of fame official for the last 30 some years. Perhaps he is stonewalling the man.
by LetsGoTwoSmokes on Feb 13, 2012 9:59 PM CST via mobile reply actions
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