Three Free Agents The Minnesota Vikings Should Take A Run At
by Christopher Gates on Feb 12, 2012 1:51 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings 2012 Off-Season
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We're right around a month from the start of the NFL's free agency period and, unlike the clusterfudge we got last season with the lockout and everything else, now we're back to the normal sequence of events that will see free agency happen before the draft. It's unsure how much of a splash the Minnesota Vikings will be able to make this season, but they should be able to do at least a little something.
The cap for this season will probably be around $124 million. Now, according to the page linked there, the Vikings have about $116 million already spoken for on this year's cap, but that will likely go up if/when the team decides to cut a few players, such as Steve Hutchinson (who has a cap figure this year of a little more than $8.3 million), Cedric Griffin (about $5.2 million), Remi Ayodele ($3 million) and Anthony Herrera (almost $3 million). If the Vikings cut those four players, it would free up a significant amount of salary cap space.
I got the data for the "cap hits" from Spotrac. According to them, the Vikings might only have $96 million or so assigned to the 2012 salary cap, and that's with the four salaries I mentioned above. I'm sure we'll get a better idea of it before the free agency period actually gets underway.
Either way, the Vikings are going to have some money to spend. With that in mind, I've found three potential free agents that the Minnesota definitely needs to be targeting when free agency gets underway. They're all young, they're all talented, and they could all make significant impacts at positions of need for this football team.
Brandon Carr, CB, Kansas City Chiefs - The Chiefs have a bit of a dilemma on their hands. They're going to end up using their franchise tag on somebody, but at this point it's not known whether that somebody will be Carr or wide receiver Dwayne Bowe, who is also set to hit free agency. If the Chiefs choose to tag Bowe and turn Carr loose, then the Vikings should immediately jump on the opportunity to bring him in. Carr, who turns 26 in May, has good size at 6' and 205 pounds, is a pretty fine coverage corner (65 passes defended in four seasons) and regarded as a solid tackler as well. He could immediately step in and provide #1 corner ability for the Minnesota defense, and could do so for the long-term future.
Pat Sims, DT, Cincinnati Bengals - This would qualify as a "significantly under the radar" signing, I think. The 26-year old Sims had an ankle injury that limited him this year, but he has the potential to be a load on the inside at 6'2" and 330 pounds. After the fairly disastrous Remi Ayodele signing last season, Sims could team up with Kevin Williams on the inside to shore up the Vikings' interior defense. It might not be a "Williams Wall" redux or anything, but Sims' best football is still ahead of him at this point.
Pierre Garçon, WR, Indianapolis Colts - As anyone that's seen Pulp Fiction knows, garçon means "boy," but in Minnesota he would have an opportunity to be the man. Sure, he's gotten to play a few years with Peyton Manning, but in 2011 he put up career-best numbers across the board (70 catches, 947 yards, 6 touchdowns) while not exactly playing with a ton of talent at the quarterback spot. His career average is 13.4 yards a catch, and has been as high as 16.3, so he's got some speed as well. Garçon will turn 26 in August, and with as deep as the free agent class is at wide receiver this season, he might have a chance to slide under the radar a bit.
Obviously there are more potential free agent targets for the Vikings than this. Who are some of the players that you think our favorite team should be targeting?
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I dunno...
But unless we improve our O-Line significantly, any other changes, especially on offense, will be more like shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. Granted, our secondary was at least as big of a sucking black hole, but they aren’t tasked with keeping important tem assets upright (Ponder & Peterson), so O-Line is an even higher priority.
I totally agree
But I think the offensive line is going to have to get done through the draft. Outside of Carl Nicks (who is probably going to get franchised by the Saints), most of the top free agents on the offensive line this off-season look to be centers, a spot that we’re already set at.
They might be able to take a run at a guy like Ben Grubbs, who would be a nice get as well. If they got Grubbs in FA and drafted Kalil at #3 overall, the offensive line would be significantly better.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 12, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I admit that I haven’t followed the FA situation very closely, so I don’t know who is available. I’m fine dealing with the line in the draft, but I don’t want them to spend too much money and effort on QB or WR unless they have a solid plan of some sort for the O-Line, otherwise it’d be a total waste. I think Ponder can be the QotF if they can keep him from getting the David Carr treatment, and I think we’re only one true #1 receiver away from having a pretty good WR corps. But our O-Line was a joke.
I'd still trade down, if possible
One extra 2nd rounder would be a huge boost. The second two best LT’s would still be fine, plus a starting LG and a good WR in rd 2. The rest of the draft should be defense, plus whatever they get in FA.
We like to banter about FA pickups, but there are 31 other teams looking, too. Let’s see if Ziggy has the balls to beef up this team.
We need tackles....
with Berger, Fusco, maybe Hutch, and Charlie Johnson, we’re not exceptional, but I’d dare say we could be pretty solid at guard. we need a LT. Johnson’s not bad, he’s just not a good LT. drafting a good starting quality LT (Kalil, Reiff or Martin), we can move Johnson to his more natural position of Guard. we also have Love and DeGere who may step things up. personally, I think we need an upgrade at both tackles. Loadholdt is a beast in run blocking, but can’t pass block to save his QB’s life.
build the line through the draft, WR and maybe secondary though FA, or a combination of draft/FA
Drew Brees?
hey, i can dream cant i?
by statue_left on Feb 12, 2012 2:24 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
No bidding wars!
I only believe that the Vikings should get involved in a bidding war only to artificially raise the cost of a player (Vincent Jackson) to another team. Shrewd, yes, but you can’t tell me that’s what teams did to get Sidney Rice that contract in Seattle. If money doesn’t talk with Jackson and he is willing to come in at 5 million or so dollars a year (unlikely) then by all means bring him in.
If history is any indication, which in many cases it is, bringing in the most coveted free agent, especially with NFL salaries of the last 15 years, its too much of a risk.
Personally, if they can get a receiver that can spread the field and create separation on nearly every play, then we’re talking. Overall, I don’t feel as if “elite” FA should be brought in with the salary structure the NFL has. I would say that we were pretty lucky with Jared Allen. How many teams can say that they got a Free Agent DE that exceeded expectations?
Trades work better
We had exclusive negotiating rights with Jared and didn’t have to deal with a bidding war. He got the biggest defensive line contract in history at the time, but it would have been even bigger if he’d hit the open market.
I like this list.
However, I would personally suggest, once again, Amobi Okoye over Pat Sims- if he’s free. The Bears are interested in signing him to a long-term deal, which I feel unfortunately is likely to happen. I’m still just miffed that I was so high on him last off-season, and ended up being right- that, I believe, would be the only time I’ve touted a FA and was proven right, and tragically the Vikings let him slip to the Bears (a division rival, no less).
Although most people here would probably prefer Pat Sims over Amobi Okoye simply for the oft-mentioned spelling issues. I still have to double check every once in a while if I’m getting that right.
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I don't think Okoye is the run stuffer that we need.
We desperately need someone to fill the Pat Williams role.
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Feb 12, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
A great run stuffer would be nice.
However, we really can’t hold our breath for Phat Pat 2.0… unfortunately, a guy like that just doesn’t show up very often. And in leiaueasdfdsf (I can’t spell that apparently) of a premier run stuffer a la PWill, I’ll take a guy who can disrupt the line and give KWill, Robison, and JAllen their shots at the QB.
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I agree, you also need to look at ROI
Sims was hurt last year so if anything he will be much cheaper. Okoye had a very good year and will demand a lot more money. So what is important really is if the respective difference in talent out weighs the salary difference.
I like it.
I want Garcon or Manningham at WR. Garcon would probably fit the number one role better.
Carr and Sims both sound like good choices.
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by PurplePeopleEaters on Feb 12, 2012 2:51 PM CST reply actions
I agree.
Manningham made one helluva play in the SB, but let’s not forget not all that long prior he ran out of bounds making a catch. Manningham has to be judged on his whole career body- which isn’t all that great- more than just one super-play. Keep in mind Tyree had an, IMO, even more insane catch in a Super Bowl… yet he still wasn’t a premier level receiver, and despite that heroic moment was even let go by the Giants a few season later.
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I'm not judging him based on one game.
Here are his stats from his four seasons:
G C YDS AVG TD
2008 8 4 26 6.5 0
2009 14 57 822 14.4 5
2010 16 60 944 15.7 9
2011 12 39 523 13.4 4
When not injured, he’s a very good WR. Keep in mind that Hicks, and Cruz (this year), play ahead of him.
"I wanted to do it because it's fun, it's fun to do bad things and drive into a car."
by PurplePeopleEaters on Feb 12, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
no doubt, manningham has talent. i will def not argue that point. i just think that garcon is more sure handed is all. manningham has had concentration issues before i believe…which is not what a young qb trying to develop needs. thats just my 2 cents though
The problem
Manningham’s catch in the Super Bowl is sure to make someone overpay for him. I’d steer clear of him and get a better value player.
by Cobra312004 on Feb 12, 2012 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like those three guys,
Sims is a good fit, I’m not 100% sold on Amobi Okoye being a occupying nose tackle to the extent Sims can. To be honest, I would go for Curtis Lofton or Dan Connor to fill the middle of our defense as well, and then if we can get a good corner like Carr in free agency then we can spend our 2nd round draft pick on a top 4-3 DT (which would most likely be there because of the # of 3-4 defenses in the low half of the first round).
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
Okoye: The Good, The Bad
The Good news with Okoye is that he’s played 5 NFL seasons and is still just 24 years old. He’s still getting better and hasn’t reached his peak yet. The Bad news (besides that the Bears want to keep him off the market) is that he is under 300 pounds and probably isn’t a good fit as a NT. But I do still think he’d be a terror next to Kevin and Jared.
But your “4-3 DT’s will be there because of all the 3-4’s” argument, it’s pretty flawed. The problem is that the difference between a 4-3 DT and a 3-4 5-technique is small to negligible. And good 5-techniques are hard to find. Teams looking for one will be still be drafting 4-3 DT’s and trying to make them fit in their system.
That's not true at all,
4-3 linemen drop all the time because of scheme; look at Da’Quan Bowers last year, as well as Marvin Austin. What determines scheme flexibility depends on the player, not the position. There are some players who are going to be taken in the first round because of their scheme flexibility (i.e. Dontari Poe, Devon Still, possibly Fletcher Cox) but it’s very possible that a guy such as Brandon Thompson and Jerel Worthy will be available at the top of the draft. Teams almost never draft 4-3 DTs to stick into a 3-4 system. In fact, teams will reach for lesser talented 3-4 ends over higher talented defensive tackles (see: Tyson Jackson being taken 3rd overall as a 3-4 end). Their ability to fit into a 3-4 or a 4-3 completely depends on the player, and in my case of reference, I think that it’s possible one of the fringe low first round defensive tackles could be available for the VIkings.
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
*top of the second round of the draft
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
Da'Quan Bowers fell because he had a degenerative knee condition
It had nothing to do with scheme. Plus he was a 4-3 end, not a DT. And as for Marvin Austin…
a number of teams have said they would not consider him until the third round, or would not want him at any price because of the way he will affect a locker room.
He dropped because of serious character red flags all over him. Again, not related to scheme even a little bit.
Then there’s Tyson Jackson. He actually was not a case of a team reaching for a DE over a more talented DT (Jackson was indeed considered by many teams as a 4-3 DT leading up to the draft). He had prototypical size and speed for the 5 technique and had produced very well in the SEC. He was widely considered to be the best 5 technique to come out in years and was often compared to Richard Seymour (a former #6 pick and a 6 time All Pro).
The problem is that the difference between a 4-3 DT and a 3-4 5-technique is small to negligible.
Let me clarify this. I don’t mean that the positions are interchangeable, I mean that the “prototypical” size for a 3-technique and a 5 technique are very similar with a lot of crossover. Because of this, scheme flexibility is a huge part of draft preparation (every year a higher and higher percentage of DL/LB’s work out as “tweeners”, taking a “let the teams sort them out” approach). The fact is that most college teams don’t run a 3-4 so very few players drafted into 3-4 schemes at the NFL level have experience in the system. Those projections are largely based on athleticism and size, since those are major factors in playing the 3-4 correctly. And, as I said, there is a lot of cross over between the 3 and 5 positions in size and athleticism categories.
There aren’t a lot of examples of 3-4 teams drafting ANY linemen late in the 1st the last few years, but a recent example would be Jared Odrick who was selected 28th overall in 2010 as a 3-4 end after playing DT throughout his career at Penn State. By all accounts, he made a successful transition, collecting 6 sacks in limited time this past season (a very impressive total from a 3-4 end).
One thing I will concede is that 5 techniques typically need to be in the 6’3"-6’5"+ range so any DT’s projected for the middle to bottom of the first that are shorter than that have a shot at falling.
I know he was a 4-3 end,
4-3 lineman often fall, not just defensive tackles. I will concede that Da’Quan Bowers had that reason for falling. However, as you say, Tyson Jackson was not reached for over a 4-3 defensive tackle, but he was a very large reach at the time being, and mainly because he fit the scheme. Going into the draft, B.J. Raji, Brian Orakpo, Aaron Maybin, and Aaron Curry all had much higher draft grades according to ESPN’s and Scouts Incorporated big board, and were all considered much better prospects. Tyson Jackson should not have gone at #3, and you can see why considering his limited production since entering the NFL.
I understand what you mean about tweeners and people who want to draft 3-4 linemen into their system if it fits. I just think that whether or not a team drafts a 3-4 linemen depends on the linemen themselves and how the team evaluates said lineman; that doesn’t necessarily mean that a 4-3 guy will go there. I do think guys like Brandon Thompson and Jerel Worthy could be there at the top of round 2, but they probably won’t be. We might have a shot at one good defensive tackle just based on the depth at other positions in the draft.
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
And to clarify my argument,
there are no “4-3” defensive tackles worth taking in the top half of the draft. In the lower half of the draft, there is a much higher number of 3-4 teams (Where the 4-3 tackles would have better value). Those teams also have more pressing needs at other positions, outside of possibly Green Bay. Because of that, it’s very possible a 4-3 tackle could fall to the Vikings.
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
There's really no such thing as a "more pressing need" when it comes to a 3-4
With how specialized the positions are in the 3-4, the number of teams running it and so few players to go around, personnel are at a premium right now. If a team thinks that a player will fit into the scheme for them, they have to take them. Historically, legit 3-4 players are pretty well cleaned out by the middle of the 2nd round. You don’t usually get a second shot.
If a team needs a rush linebacker,
they’ll take a rush line backer. Or a defensive back. Or a d-lineman. They won’t just draft a 3-4 lineman for the sake of the fact that they’re a 3-4 lineman. A lot of the 3-4 teams at the bottom of the first round just don’t need linemen outside of Houston and Green Bay.
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
Brandon Carr is loved here in KC, and for good reasons. He would be a significant upgrade over Cedric Griffin, and he’s young enough to still improve. I also like the idea of drafting a shutdown corner in the first round like Dre’ Kirkpatrick, but the Vikes may need to spend that pick on a tackle instead.
Definitely a FA DT, too, though I don’t really care who.
I don’t know about the need for a FA WR. I thought that Michael Jenkins was a good enough #2, and I would like to see at least 1 draft pick spent on a WR. Even though the position is somewhat fickle compared to others, it’s worth spending a 2nd-4th round pick on a WR and possibly hit the jackpot. I’d love to see another effective return guy on the team so that Percy Harvin could take fewer hits and more snaps.
Problem is it takes WR's a couple of years to flesh out into the NFL
Few make waves their first year.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Tyvon Branch from Oakland
He is a complete beast of a Safety and plays with a meanness, that you just cant help but love. he’s a very good tackler, very fast and pretty good cover skills.
Same with Cortland Finnegan of Tennesee at the corner
Adding these two would make our defense 3 times better and 3 times meaner.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, it's just that your's is stupid.
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by HolySchnikes on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
Except
Cortland Finnegan is the biggest douche-pickle in the NFL.
Don't you know who the *^$% I am?
by Jeppernaut on Feb 12, 2012 4:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree to an extent
He’s a guy you can’t stand if he’s not on your team, but a guy you love if he is. Plus Cortland Finnegan is a pretty kickass name.
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, it's just that your's is stupid.
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by HolySchnikes on Feb 12, 2012 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
tyvonn branch
LOVE LOVE the carr choice and if we could get branch our secondary could become very good.Garcon,meachum or maningham would be a great improvement without breaking the bank.I f we wanted to break the bank BOWE would be my dream pickup.To get the numbers he gets with the qbs he has had is short of a miracle.i also agree with landonio about dan connor or lofton in case jasper isnt ready health wise.
I like two of three
But not sold on Garson, a below average #2 opposite R. Wayne and having Payton as QB. I don’t think he’s as good as Jenkins. I would rather go after Colston. We also need a MLB.
I completely agree we go O-line with our first draft pick. If we get a LT, we move Johnson to guard and were a much better line already. So going after FA defensive players is a smart move.
by Vikefandc on Feb 12, 2012 4:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I think its more likely that
Hutch renegotiates his contract. If that happens I see Ziggy still pursuing Nicks or even Grubbs to plug in at guard and getting a Tackle or 2 in the draft. I think Carr at CB is great and Terrell Thomas from the Giants is my second choice. and I’d rather have Colston or Reggie Wayne but I don’t think were high enough on their lists to be chosen, so I see a wr being taken in the draft to.
I really hope they Trade down.
Respectfully raping people with my words, since 1993.
by marsexxxy23 on Feb 12, 2012 5:19 PM CST via mobile reply actions
CB and/or WR Free Agents
I’m with ya on Brando Carr at corner. We need size and a solid tackler at this position with the likes of the receivers in our division. But at receiver Marcus Colston, Vincent Jackson or Dwayne Bowe would be a great addition with their size and proven talent. The O-line and maybe a safety should be addressed through the draft.
by DaveMKeepVikesInMinnesota on Feb 12, 2012 6:22 PM CST reply actions
I'd like to see us go after Routt
Might be cheaper than Carr, whose desirability as a free agent is the worst kept secret in the NFL.
I like the Carr thought
if they’re going to make a splash in free agency, I hope they get a solid corner and at least somewhat upgrade the offensive line.
WR is almost always overpaid, and QBs make WRs great, very seldom the other way around. So I’m saying don’t blow a bunch on a “could pan out” WR. Scout and draft here.
Draft Kalil and get Peyton Manning on an incentive laden contract
Laron Landry please
I Love this safety and he’d give us something we havn’t had since Sharper left.
I’d also like to see more LB Depth (not necessarily an expensive star) and a CB who will come in and start respectively for us (shouldn’t take much)
On offense I want to see Garcon or Vincent Jackson. 2 players I think that would help out Ponder in his development and be a beautiful compliment to Harvin.
I don't think Washington will let him go.
And even if they let him test the market, he certainly wouldn’t be the first safety to decide another system would be a better fit than our’s. (Like Atogwe did.)
Plus, he’s young-ish. I see him staying put.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 12, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
He’s not really a Cover-2 safety. I’d be shocked if he left Washington, but he won’t come here if he does.
Jackson would be an awesome get. Our receiving corps looks shockingly decent if we bump everyone down one slot on the depth chart. I’d love to see us add a guy that can pull coverage off of Harvin.
I hope we can get some young FAs to upgrade the talent too
but I wonder how significant our signings will really be. We may land one big FA but I don’t think we’ll outbid many teams because although we will have some money to spend, so will half the league. A three win team in clear rebuilding mode will not be attractive to a talented guy who wants to win championships. And the stadium and coaching staff being among f the league’s worst ain’t helping either. I’m not happy about it but it’s the sad reality.
Then again
Who wouldn’t want to play behind/alongside Kevin Williams and Jared Allen? Who wouldn’t want to block for Adrian Peterson? Or run routes across from Percy Harvin? We may be rebuilding, but we have more talent than most rebuilding teams. And the stadium isn’t terrible for playing in, just for making money. But that isn’t as important as the team facilities where they have to work every day. By all accounts, they are quite nice since the Wilfs took over.
And let’s be honest, most players are just looking at dollar signs when they hit free agency. We were good at landing free agents last time we were rebuilding, I think we’ll do fine this time too.
Free Agents 2012
Here are the postions I would like to see addressed, and the players I would sign, ranked in order of preference:
Wide Receiver—1. Dwayne Bowe. 2. Vincent Jackson. 3. Pierre Garcon. 4. Stevie Johnson. 5. Mario Manningham. 6. Laurent Robinson
Cornerback—1. Brandon Carr. 2. Cortland Finnegan. 3. Richard Marshall. 4. Ben Grimes.
Safety—1. Tyvonn Branch. 2. Michael Griffin
Linebacker—1. W. Woodyard. 2. Curtis Lofton. 3. Hawthorne. 4. Dan Connor
NT—1. Soliai. 2. Bunkely. 3. Sims
Guard—1. Carl Nicks. 2. Ben Grubbs.
As you can see, the potential depth of this wide receiver free agent class is just another reason why the Vikings need to stay away from drafting a WR early in this years draft.
Other positions like guard, safety and NT are much thinner in FA so the Vikings may miss out on these players and have to use a draft pick to address those positions.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Having a Griffen back at safety again would make me happy.
Hell I would be happy with just one of the three guys you picked out up there Chris…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
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