Vikings Stadium 'Losing Urgency' At State Capitol
by Ted Glover on Feb 13, 2012 8:34 AM CST
in Minnesota Vikings Stadium
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Not with a bang, but with a whimper.
At least, that's what it's looking like in terms of getting a stadium this legislative session. With fuzzy funding for both Minneapolis (electronic pull tab revenue stream is anywhere from $20-55 million short of original projections) and Ramsey County (Vikings have rejected the latest installment of the Arden Hills revenue plan, leaving it in doubt) not adding up, along with no definitive site on where a stadium will be built in Minneapolis, hope is quickly fading on getting a Vikings stadium bill passed this legislative session.
The Vikings need to notify the NFL by Wednesday if they intend to move, but they have yet to say that they will. Why? Because, at least on the surface, they have nowhere to move to.
So if they have nowhere to move to but no lease, what happens? It would seem, at least for 2012...nothing. But after that, who knows?
And with 2012 being an election year, the feeling at the Capitol is that legislators want to push this to the back burner and concentrate on tough re-elections in newly drawn districts, and worry about this next year. I guess it's easier to run on a platform of "I didn't do squat" than having to answer on a vote for a Vikes stadium, regardless of where you stand on the issue.
There's some political courage for you. I bet no one saw THAT coming.
But a lot can happen between now and next year. And the only one that we really care about, a new stadium, seems to be the one that has the smallest chance of happening, at least as of today.
Let's break it down, after the jump.
Governor Dayton even seems to be resigned to the fact that nothing will get done this session:
"If we don't get it this year, and I hope and believe we will, we'll get it next legislative session."
Wow, way to get out there and be forceful, Governor. So where do we sit, as of today, in terms of relocation?
It's remote, at least in the short term. I'll be stunned if they announce on Wednesday their intent to move to another city for the 2012 season. The most logical choice, Los Angeles, has a stadium situation almost as murky as Minnesota's right now, and no other city has been mentioned as a possible new location. So they're safe, I would think, for at least one more year.
If no stadium deal gets done, I think what happens is this: the Vikings sign a one year lease to play in the Metrodome, and owner Zygi Wilf does a couple things: He'll keep working with Minnesota officials to get a stadium deal done and push for a special session. And to create a sense of urgency that seemed to vanish when it became known that there was virtually no chance the Vikings will move before the 2012 season, he'll start looking for a new city, or he'll announce that he's putting the team up for sale, and start entertaining offers from different ownership groups.
It sucks, but that's where we are. Ramsey County was derailed by the political power players advocating for Minneapolis, but those same Minneapolis advocates were so unprepared to submit a serious offer, that as of today there is no financing plan finalized, no site finalized, and no assurance a bill could pass through the legislature even if those two key items were answered today.
Pathetic. Simply pathetic.
For me, Ramsey County commissioner Tony Bennett summed it up best:
"If they (the legislature) don't want to do it (pass a stadium bill), why don't they say so and just set it aside and face the wrath of the people?"
That would seem to be the $64,000 question at the moment.
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Ugh
So frustrating.
But you know I have to say it. Ramsey County was derailed the first to times by having plans that required tax increases and the third time by having a plan that rested on taking more money out of the Vikings pockets. A lack of support from Minneapolis had very little to do with either.
And electronic pull tabs are supposed to be the state’s contribution so that shortfall effects any site.
You're right, but I still think
that if everyone got behind Ramsey County right away and said ‘hey, we can’t increase taxes but we can do ‘X’ instead’ be it pull tabs, racino, whatever,, the stadium would already be under construction.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
We'll never know
But I don’t think so.
It’s very complicated, though, and quite hard to sort through.
Wow...
What a bunch of BS… seriously…
I hate this state so much right now. From the shutdown last summer, to the idiotic things they have tried to push through, and now this. What a bunch of clowns.
The night is always darkest before the dawn.
Whatever, man.
Just keep pushing it off the table year after year you scumbags assholes. Keep not doing your jobs and you just might find that you don’t have one after a while. I’ve taken shits that have bigger spines.
If we can't laugh at ourselves, Packer fans will call us crybabies and we will be forced to kick their tooth in. I really don't want to go to jail (again).
by Alittlemore_cowbell on Feb 13, 2012 8:56 AM CST reply actions
UNREAL...
I used to be proud of the fact that I grew up in MN, but can’t say that today. TOTAL BS…and I can only hope that any current elected politician is voted out of office, especially if they are from MPLS. AH is the site for the Vikes. Vikes/Ramsey Cty and I think the vavst majority of fans favor it. Yet, the FN’ MPLS, politico idiots screw EVERYONE over. Total lack of leadership and responsibility. I live 15 miles from the SD/MN border and I’ll not spend any money in the state if the Vikes leave.
I think the Vikings position on naming rights to a stadium they won't own...
…is a position that will (and ought) to torpedo any deal. They won’t get naming rights in L.A. because those naming rights have already been committed to Farmers Insurance for $700M over 30 years. Most stadiums won’t get that level of financial commitment for naming rights, but it’s still unreasonable for the Vikings to demand naming rights. If they put up the majority of the money for a stadium and take ownership with all of the operating costs associated with that ownership, then they ought to feel entitled to those naming rights. Short of that though, they are being unreasonable, and that position is counterproductive to getting a deal done.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
Not all that surprised.
The second any elected official gets a sniff that he/she can procrastinate a very divisive decision, they jump on it.
Wilf needs to start using leverage.
by Jepp The Viking on Feb 13, 2012 9:36 AM CST reply actions
But they don't have any right now
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Same as it ever was
Like this hasn’t been like anything the state hasn’t done before on the issue. Let’s push it down the road……..again. Still keeping my fingers crossed the Vikings don’t actually hit the road, ya know?
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
In the words of the girlscout from the movie Dodgeball....
God Damnit Bernice!!!!!
by Randytheviking17 on Feb 13, 2012 9:44 AM CST via Android app reply actions
"Wow, way to get out there and be forceful, Governor."
Let’s try to use our brains before making asinine comments like this! IT TAKES THE LEGISLATURE TO WRITE A BILL, SCHEDULE A VOTE, PASS THE BILL, SEND IT TO THE OTHER CHAMBER FOR THE SAME THING BEFORE IT GETS ON THE GOVERNORS DESK SO HE CAN SIGN IT. EACH CHAMBER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SETTING THEIR OWN TIMETABLE. THE GOVERNOR CAN NOT INITIATE ACTION IN EITHER CHAMBER OF THE LEGISLATURE NOR CAN HE IMPOSE A DEADLINE ON THE LEGISLATURE.
The Governor can suggest stuff, but what in God’s green earth makes you think the republican controlled senate and the republican controlled house will just fall in line behind a democratic governor? Have you not been paying attention at all to Minnesota politics besides just the stadium? The governor has about as much political capital right now as I do….exactly zero. The state shut down last summer due to BUDGET concerns. The governor had to give in to the republican legislature to get things going again. Do you honestly think that the money for the stadium that the state is being asked to fund will have zero impact on the rest of the budget/deficit/long term debt of the state? It’s not as easy as you might think.
Please, if you want to blame someone, at least blame the right people.
both sides
are to blame… and you don’t have to shout.
Vikings Valhalla .com
by Admiral BigGun on Feb 13, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
the shouting came about because it has been mentioned
multiple times in multiple threads by multiple people and people just can’t get it through their heads that Dayton can’t write the bill, pass it and sign it. That is not how government works in a representative republic. It works that way under a dictatorship or strict monarch, which we do not have.
understood and agreed...
but the point of the article what the Gov. said and what he has and hasn’t done… it does NOT exempt the legislature from their responsibility in this matter.
Right now we have:
Gov. = (D) + Legislature with majority®.
a few short years again we had:
Gov. =® + Legislature with majority (D).
End result is the same… we still don’t have a stadium deal.
Vikings Valhalla .com
by Admiral BigGun on Feb 13, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
There's plenty of fault in this
And I’m not trying to pin this all on the Governor. Zellers is just as much of a jackass as anyone, but Dayton, as the primary politician in the state, has the bully pulpit more than anyone else and could’ve used more of his clout as governor to put more pressure on the Legislature than he has.
Do a state wide bus tour to generate support, get the people behind it, and force the Legislature’s hand. It’s Politics 101, and he’s failed at it.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
thanks for not trying to pin it all on the Governor,
however, the last time the Governor tried to do a statewide bus tour to generate support and get the people behind him, it was for a much more important reason….the statewide government shutdown….and he found out he couldn’t force the legislature’s hand to stop the shutdown. So he had to cave in. So, no, he does not have the bully pulpit. He can say whatever he wants and so can we….but the legislature listens to him about as much as they listen to us. He certainly has no clout with the legislature, as shown in just about every other political bout outside of the stadium issue. You name it, political appointees, budget issues, stadium issues, process issues and any specific legislation, the legislature has shown that they will do whatever it takes to keep Dayton from getting anything that can be perceived by the voters as a legislative victory.
Partisan much?
Chris3, well, your statement, “the legislature has shown that they will do whatever it takes to keep Dayton from getting anything that can be perceived by the voters as a legislative victory,” certainly shows your true colors. You are exempting Dayton of ANY and ALL responsibility on this issue. Perhaps you should at least TRY to be a little more even handed. Most here have it right. This is a shared responsibility. Personally, I blame the governor for allowing the issue to take the backseat in the manner it has. He should call out the Republicans to openly voice their opposition to whatever proposal is out there and propose their alternative — instead, he lets it wither. As the leading political figure in the state, that is his responsibility. No matter how much you disagree, he DOES set the statewide agenda by being forceful and ever-present in his insistence on moving the ball forward on the stadium issue. He has not done that. As far as the Republicans are concerned, my understanding is that , due to budgetary concerns, most are set on wanting a voter referendum which, by most accounts, would fail and ensure the Vikes leave the state. If the governor and stadium proponents wish to avoid the referendum, then the argument needs to take a political turn and the Republicans need to be painted as anti-stadium and for wanting a vote on the subject. The Republicans have also done a particularly poor job of explaining their position, essentially deferring to the governor while being utter chicken shits in their refusal to take a positioned stand — JUST like the governor. These two parties in this state need to be removed and an entire new slate of politicians elected, as it appears to me that NONE of them wish to work with anyone at all.
This isn't a D/R issue. And I'm sick of it being framed that way.
When the DFL had the legislature, they didn’t touch it EITHER. TPaw was just as spineless on this as Dayton.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. This is a Minneapolis Mafia issue. They weren’t going to let the Vikes play anyplace else in the State, period. Then when it came time for them to put up or shut up, they were too STUPID to come up with a realistic plan of their own.
They assume it’s their God-given right to host every sports team in the State, and no one is going to take that away. They’ve too many politicians—of BOTH parties—in their pockets to let Ramsey win. It has zip to do with ‘no new taxes.’ That’s this year’s excuse from the same people who put it off LAST year. It’s a rigged contest, but the rigger is too idiotic to close the deal.
by Shawn Gillogly on Feb 13, 2012 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
I haven't seen anyone frame it as a D/R issue
But there are parts of it that do correlate with party. The “no new tax” position is strongly correlated with the Rs, and is a fundamental tenet of this particular majority leadership.
What makes the stadium issue not a partisan one is that there is also a “no public money for stadiums” group that correlates strongly (but not exclusively) with the DFL.
It’s accurate to say it’s not a D/R issue if the “it” you are referring to is a stadium, and if you mean there is opposition on both sides.
But if you mean that the rationale for opposition doesn’t track with party, that is wrong.
As for T-Paw and the DFL majorities, that’s a politician issue. None of them are eager to do anything politically challenge before they absolutely have and the Viking had a lease.
Which, btw, is also what was going on in Minneapolis. The voters of Minneapolis are pretty strongly anti-stadium. But at least the mayor figured out that it was a bad idea to let a major sports business leave, so he’s tried to act anyway. I don’t see why any Vikings fan is upset by that. Obviously, it would be nice if the city could be rather more organized in how it tries to act, but it’s walking a very fine line in trying to get support from a city council whose constituents are not terribly supportive.
But no matter how many times people insist, it just isn’t true that a “Minneapolis Mafia” is or has stood in the way of Arden Hills. The legislature stood in the way of the first two plans by saying no to new taxes, and the Vikings stood in the way of the third because it took money of their pockets.
You can keep believing in shadowy conspiracy theories if you want, but I’m going with Occam’s Razor and the facts we know.
Anyway, I just wish people would be in favor of any plan that nets a new stadium, and I wish that there was less anger directed at people whose support we will need to get this done. Especially because I don’t see how having two different localities competing to build a stadium does anything but help the Vikings in negotiations.
please, take a civics class
learn everything you can about government procedures and how they work. When TPaw was gov, he couldn’t write the bills, either. He couldn’t introduce the bills on the floor. All any governor can do is talk a possible bill over with house and senate leadership, or have a like minded congressman draft a bill. If the like minded congressman drafts the bill the governor wants, it is still up to the house and senate leadership to assign the bill to committee. It is also then up to the committee leadership (who is the same political party as the leadership in the house or senate….whichever one the bill is originating in) and should it ever pass the vote in the committee, then it is up to the chamber’s leadership once again to schedule it for a vote. If they never schedule it for a vote and session ends, then the bill is dead. This is all regardless of party. What makes my views seem biased is the fact that both chambers of the legislature is controlled by one party while the governor is of the opposite party….and a bill requires approval from all 3 pieces to become law.
In other areas, you would be correct, I am somewhat of a partisan…on a federal political level, it seems that republicans are more willing to lie, create stories or rely less on facts than democrats. That said, on this issue, in the State of Minnesota, I have been very open about not wanting tax dollars go for the stadium unless it can be proven that the rate of return was good for the state. I don’t care what about Minneapolis or Ramsey County voters approve or not…I don’t live in either of those areas. What I do care about, though, is that the legislators follow state law and allow the voters to have their say. If the law can just be circumvented any time they wanted to go against the will of the people, then what is the point of having a representative republic? But, that’s another matter.
When I pointed out that "the legislature has shown that they will do whatever it takes to keep Dayton from getting anything that can be perceived by the voters as a legislative victory,", that is a very objective and not partisan statement. Everything that the Governor has said has come under fire by the legislators, everything the governor has stated he wanted to do has come under fire by the legislators. Every issue. In fact, just last week, the republican leadership wanted an apology from Dayton because he used harsh rhetoric. And you think the problem is that the governor isn’t being forceful enough? He doesn’t have the ability to back any force up. A veiled threat means absolutely nothing. It’s the same as if I told you that I would get you kicked off this board. I have no administrative privileges, and I doubt anyone on the staff at the DN would really like me trying to wield a power I don’t have. That is where Dayton is at with the legislature. He doesn’t have the ability to back up any forceful words with any action, all attempts in other areas have failed. Why try again?
by Chris3 on Feb 13, 2012 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You are not just "somewhat" partisan
…when you say crazy crap like “…it seems that republicans are more willing to lie, create stories, or rely less on facts than Democrats.”
LOL…that’s some crazily unsupported partisan crap you’re spewing there. Wow.
by Wytefang on Feb 13, 2012 11:23 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
A couple things
Bypassing a voter referendum is 100% legal in the state of Minnesota. The legislature has to approve the request, but if they do, they are not ‘circumventing the law’, they are following it.
Now, we can have a discussion all day long as to whether or not that’s a good law or a bad law, but it is, in fact, the law. It was done to pass the Twins stadium, and it was perfectly legal.
And for Chris3 and VFNM—stop right now with the calling out of Republicans/Democrats as liars. Look, we’re all frustrated with the way this stadium ordeal has gone down—but this is not a political site. When Republican Tim Pawlenty was governor, he was worthless in trying to get a Vikings stadium done, because he provided ZERO leadership on forwarding a Vikings stadium and had a Democrat controlled legislature (for the most part) that didn’t pronounced every plan presented as pretty much Dead on Arrival.
With Democrat Mark Dayton as governor, he was been saying the right things, which is more than TPaw ever did, but he also has been worthless in trying to get a Vikings stadium done, because he provided ZERO leadership on forwarding a Vikings stadium. Whenever he seems to get momentum going, the Republican controlled legislature yells ‘boo!’, and he runs and hides. And just like when the DFL controlled the state legislature, the Republicans have spiked every plan before it’s had a chance to even get to committee hearings.
There is plenty of balme to go around by both parties for over 10 years. Both Republicans and Democrats have been using the Vikings stadium as a political pawn to advance whatever agenda is convenient for them at the time.
So stop with the back and forth about either Republicans sucking or Democrats sucking, because at least in this instance, they both do. If you can’t talk about the stadium without becoming a partisan, don’t comment.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Wasnt meaning
just calling out the Dems as the only bad guys, just trying to make the point that both sides, like you said, are at fault. Tired of the side taking as well, just trying to show that one is not better then the other. Sick of the Politics as well being used. Wish we all could just stay focused on one thing, getting things done for our teams.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
by VikesFaninNM on Feb 14, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
I was going to make a comment about the Whigs
but I guess I better skip it.
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
LOL
Well played, Mauer.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Ahhhhhhhh
Switching to Geico and changing your name to………Millard?
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
by VikesFaninNM on Feb 14, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
I just don’t see it. I don’t think Dayton has the clout you suggest, both because of who he is and how he got elected and because of who the majority is in the legislature. As keeps getting demonstrated over and over again on different issues, there isn’t a lot of room for them to work together or influence each other. They live in hermetically sealed separate worlds. And he’s not the most charismatic or persuasive guy.
Also, I think the politics 101 would argue against a barn storming tour. This is the kind of thing that gets done because it makes sense, not because it’s popular.
Yeah, fair points that both you and Chris3 point out
Seems odd that they can’t even come together on this issue.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
The same is true of the President and Federal Legislature
Yet Ronald Reagan was able to advance his agenda despite the fact the opposite party had control of both houses of Congress. How? Leadership and action. Standing in front of a bunch of microphones stating you support this or that is not leadership, nor is it action.
True leaders are able to accomplish their goals in spite of the nuts and bolts of how laws come to be. True leaders are able to make progress on that which they truly belive in, even in the face of opposition. Gov. Dayton says he supports a new stadium, yet takes very little meaningful action to make that happen.
While it is true the legislature is also to blame for the lack of progress, most of the members of the legislature’s actions match their words. Those who oppose raising taxes for a new stadium say so, then act accordingly. Those that favor a new stadium say so, then act accordingly. It’s doesn’t seem as though Dayton’s actions match his words.
I"m mostly gonna let the broader politics go
As this isn’t the forum. But Reagan had a friendly majority in the Senate, for the most part. He also had common ground on which he could work with the other party at the time.
But all of that is irrelevant. Dayton is nowhere near Reagan’s league as a leader. That’s no surprise.
But I guess I don’t know what action you want from Dayton. He’s negotiating with all the relevant player to try to find a solution. Are there other things you would like him to be doing?
Examples?
“He’s negotiating with all the relevant player to try to find a solution” - like who? when? and what solutions has he brought to the table? Negotiation implys he’s propsosing compromises. What has he proposed? What has he directly done to help the various parties find middle ground?
You haven't been following the news?
It’s been reported on pretty thoroughly here, but here’s one example for you.
You remember when he had negotiations with Zellers and Koch (and Lanning and Rosen) back in the fall? When Zellers sent out his “we will not agree to a special session” email and when the result of those negotiations was the death of the original Arden Hills plan because of it’s tax increase? How about when the governor set a deadline for plans from localities and then sat down to talk with legislative leaders and the team about it? When he talked with the Father Bauer about his concerns about Linden Ave?
That’s just stuff we know about off the top of my head, but it’s a pretty safe assumption that both Dayton and Mondale are having a lot of discussions that we never hear about too.
Fair Enough
But what’s the net result of all those meetings and negotiations? A leader has people that follow. Dayton has none. In fact, his stance changes with the wind. That’s not leadership.
Of course there’s nothing wrong with having no leadership capabilities (although that would be a handy skill to have if you’re the governor of an entire state). And its perfectly fine that he’s not driving the stadium issue to resolution. But he stands in front of the cameras and preens and postures like he’s a leader. he acts like he’s a player in making things happen. “look at all the meetings I’ve had. Look at all the negotiations I’ve participated in. Plan X is the one to go with!” But there’s no substance behind it. There are no results. The emporer has no clothes.
I think many of you are missing the point
Which is that Wilf and the front office are the weak links, here.
Whenever someone has a business it is their responsibility to decide what they want and get it done.
I don’t see Wilf putting much of an effort here into making this happen, at least from my perspective as someone who used to raise money and capital for businesses.
He seems to just be sitting around and hoping someone else can come up with a solution for him, rather than him being more proactive in getting this done.
Yeah, he needs $800 million. He’s not seeming to be involved much in really nailing a plan he favors. He’s willing to talk to anyone but he consistently fizzles on his Arden Hills plan and has built little support for it other than a lame TV ad. If you want money from your bankers/the government you continually strengthen your plan until you get it, you don’t just give up.
Yeah, he needs to convince voters to support something, and instead he’s leaving it to the State, counties, and cities to squabble over solutions based on far too many variables, including location, financing, transportation, etc.. That’s not leadership.
Some people can’t seem to separate the Vikings football team from the ownership of that team. We love the Vikings, but their managers are really slim on leadership here.
by liveforadrenaline on Feb 14, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure that's right either
Lester Bagley is on the payroll for one task: get a stadium. I don’t know what he’s doing with his time each day, but I’m fairly sure it’s something.
This is a very complex issue and a challenging time to get it done. It’s frustrating, but I don’t think anyone is to blame unless and until the clock runs out.
It seems like you're trying to have it both ways.
You want him to be a leader. Folks point out what he’s doing to lead. You then say it’s clearly not working. And then you take him to task for doing the things he’s doing in his attempt to lead as substance free.
Either you want him to try and lead or you don’t. If you do, then feel free to critique him on what you view as his failures or his lack of leadership qualities. But then logically you shouldn’t get to ding him for trying. If you do you’ve basically set up a “Heads I win, Tails you lose” situation.
I don’t think he’s a great leader. But even if he was a much better leader, I’m still not sure how much success he’d have given the polarized nature of the legislature right now. Also, there is only so much he can do given the fact that the plans he has to work with are so dependent on the contributions (both financial and other) from the potential local partners and the Vikings (both of whom he has little to no control over).
Ok, fair criticisms from both of you
In the order of priorities here is what I would do:
1) Start running a well-defined public relations campaign to target 4 constituencies: the legislature, local governments, and citizens in both the state and at the local level. Hire a PR firm. Focus groups would define the specific problems to work on with each group and then start a program to overcome objections. Start running ads to accomplish a defined percentage improvement in citizen approval rates. These always lead to improvement in legislative support.
As a side note, there have been many successful referendum approvals around the country, and I’m not sure how Wilf expects to slide on some form of citizen approval. People in general HAVE to be convinced this is a good thing to do. Pay for polling. Get bazillions of endorsements, get corporations to support specific programs and goals.
2) Get into the driver seat and decide EXACTLY what you want to do instead of waiting for new proposals from different cities. Support this decision more clearly and start sending people out to give speeches and a thousand other things to get citizens involved in WHY your program is the best. The time of doing press releases and press conferences is long past and it takes FAR more to sell a stadium in any city today.
3) Do unique things, like have “Stadium days” or whatever. Spending a bit of money will help more people approve of the stadium.
4) Politely ask Dayton to quit putting on dumb press conferences that don’t seem to support anything other than maybe not much/confusion. For once, try to get the legislature and governor do this together. No businessman in his right mind would want his banker running his media campaign and sending out conflicting signals. The State is just the banker in this deal. Wilf needs to be the one who does ALL the front-man stuff, and not pawn it off on his underlings, nor encourage Humphrey to be the face of this thing as he is also a political animal.
My business plans ran 500 pages or more, and EVERY detail was tested over and over again before initial public release so that the holes would be few.
by liveforadrenaline on Feb 14, 2012 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
Not shocked by politicians anymore.
Just expect them do to the most vile, selfish, partisan things you can imagine and you’ll never be upset. Expect nothing, that way when once in the blue hell something positive comes along, you are pleasantly surprised. Some people call it cynicism, I call it reality.
by Jepp The Viking on Feb 13, 2012 11:10 AM CST reply actions
*sighs*
It’s unfortunate it had come to this but looks like the only option is to put it on the backburner until after the election. Honestly there may be no more important season than the next one for the Vikings.
If they make things exciting and win games the more apathetic “fans” will be more serious about losing them. Quite frankly they picked the worst time in their entire history to suck right now.
Hopefully with the next election the politicians will be more willing to work on the issue
I really hope that fans
Do not put it on the back burner. It’s never a bad idea to make your voice heard and ask for support from your elected officials.
Even if it doesn’t happen until next session, it will be easier to get done then if the groundwork has been laid.
You can blame the organization for a "all chips are in" for the 2008, 2009, 2010 seasons
instead of having a long term personnel strategy. All the overpaid mediocre talent on the roster, the failure to get serviceable back ups/replacements all fall squarely on the shoulders of the Triangle of Authority who got their orders from Ziggy. It is apparent to me that Ziggy never wanted to own the team this long. He had no plans to build a decent team, rather take the one he bought, make some quick improvements, when a super bowl, get a new stadium and sell the team for twice as much as he paid for it. To this point, it’s not working out so well.
But the flip side could be argued
that they went all in to try and get a Super Bowl win and get a stadium passed on the wave of that high. And even as well as they did in 2009, that had no effect, obviously.
I can’t fault him for thinking that way, to be honest. It makes sense to think that if the team is really good, like Super Bowl good, that popularity would translate into getting a new stadium.
Except this is Minnesota, where up is down.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
I would argue that anyone who saw 2008
knew the front line couldn’t block very well. In 2009, it was no surprise that the front line was helped out by Favre’s quick release. The front line was ignored while we paraded a bunch of never have been’s and never will be’s at the receiver position.
I do kind of understand the all in approach, except I think there were too many signs pointing to the necessities that were just plain ignored. We all want to blame Childress for not having the long term vision, but we leave the man who signs the checks blameless? That doesn’t seem right to me.
Agreed
I’ve felt all along that Zygi was looking to flip the Vikings for a quick profit. He’s been agressively pursuing the 2 biggest things that would lead to a sudden spike in market value rather than building a foundation for long-term success. Don’t get me wrong, I like Zygi, I think overall he’s been a good owner, and its been an entertaining ride. But Zygi is no Robert Kraft.
Not a Vikings fan,
but I empathize with all of you on this issue.
All the BS in play just plain sucks.
The Vikes must stay in the NFC North, where they belong.
Stay strong and don’t let the short-sighted fools rob you of your team.
Peace.
Thanks
We’re trying man, we’re trying, just sucks the big one though. Everytime we think we are getting close, the politicians seem to do an about face and go “meh”.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
by VikesFaninNM on Feb 13, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah I feel the same and as viking supporter/fan from LA I want them to stay in Minnesota!
Loved the vikings since I was kid but became a Raider fan when they cam to LA. I use love the vikings beating up on the Rams. I never liked the Rams just as I don’t like the Dodgers but instead the Yankees. You can be a fan where ever you live but it wouldn’t be right for the Vikes to leave Minnesota. Those 2 name are synonymous Being Minnesota and the Vikings.
It is to bad we are in the era of 1 billion dollar stadiums. If Minnesota would of taken care of the Vikings a while ago it would of cost much less and their would be relief for the fans not worrying about their team today. I can’t Imagine what this is doing to the Fans in Minnesota what a pisser but I feel that the Vikings have come this far they will stay and get a stadium in Minnesota.
by raider.freak on Feb 14, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
that's kind of the issue...Minnesota did take care of them a while ago...
30 yrs ago…then 20 yrs into the new stadium that was supposed to last forever, the Vikings said they needed a new one. There are a lot of ways to contain cost to the state on this issue, or quicken loan repayment using the stadium revenues.
No surprise....
you have the perfect storm of a horrific economy, an already bloated budget, politicians who are too scared to take a position (for or against) and a team that just happens to stink right now, and may continue to do so into the foreseeable future.
No one thought the Browns would EVER leave Cleveland. There WILL be a team in SoCal, one way or another.
Of course
There is now a fairly good sized projected surplus, thanks to stronger than expected revenues, in part related to a stronger than expected economy. But still that doesn’t seem to have moved things.
But it’s a politically risky issue, in both directions, which I think is why both the legislature (no new taxes) and the Minneapolis city council (no public money for stadiums) are happy to punt referendums to either leave it to the voters, or more likely, put it off another year in the hopes that the optics improve.
Politicians will take any excuse to delay any decision that prevents such a catch 22.
Silver Lining
A delay, while it may seem like the most horrible thing right now, my guess is, this will bode well for next year. Whatever your thoughts on the Tea Party, my guess is that they will be voted out in November, just like they were voted in. People want to see the economy improve, and the Tea Party has had 2 years to get it done. They have failed. I predict another sea-saw in the opposite direction.
A Democratic majority will not have the same “hands-are-tied” problem with raising taxes to get the stadium bill done. They would have no problem over-riding a referendum, just like they did with the Twins Stadium. So, assuming that the political landscape changes after November, a stadium bill in Arden Hills with a sales tax increase, would be a pretty easy sell.
It’s a gamble, but the Vikings don’t really have any other choice. If the legislature doesn’t change hands in November, then I think we can all kiss the Minnesota Vikings goodbye. If they couldn’t come up with a deal this year, and the make-up for the legislature doesn’t change dramatically, then nothing will happen next year either. I think Wilf is genuine in his desire to keep the Vikings in Minnesota, but there is only so much of this anyone can take. They entertained offers from other cities this year, but didn’t make too much of a big deal about it. I expect them to make a big deal about it next year, and they should. If the legislature has no “sense of urgency” about this, then vote them all out, and put in some people will actually give a damn.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
It kills me....
….. to see so many Tea Party supporters in favor of government money for a stadium for a private entertainment business. Is the double standard not obvious or are you still deluded into believing that the stadium is a financial boon for the government? “I’m all for tax cuts except for things I want.”
Sorry, Ted
That was meant to be sarcastic, but perhaps that was unclear or it was inappropriate anyway.
Whether control changes or not
There will be fewer Tea Partiers in the next legislature. There was such a big waive last time that there has to be some sort of correction.
And any movement back to the middle increases the possibility of threading the needle around “no new taxes,” “no expanded gambling” and “no public money for stadiums.”
Your first sentence is speculation.
Unless you are Nostradamus. You have no way of assuredly knowing election results. Maybe come October I will take your predictions about the 2012 election a little serious. Until then yours is nothing but wishful thinking. Certainly nothing to base a stadium strategy upon.
Your fantasy football expert since Jerry Rice's rookie year.
Your last sentence is 100% correct
But I explained my reasoning behind my first sentence. It would just be really surprising if that big of a trend in one direction isn’t followed by some amount of pull back.
But yeah, that’s a pretty general statement and nowhere near adequate base for strategy.
I think with redistricting taken into account
the Tea Party is going to stay the same, if not improved.
by Shawn Gillogly on Feb 13, 2012 6:14 PM CST up reply actions
Also
If the majority changes, it’s worth noting that I think that will free up a lot of R votes too. There are plenty in the DFL who object to any money for stadiums and to any expansion of gambling. Probably enough to mean the DFL can’t pass it alone.
But there are also Rs that have supported past stadiums (and tax funding) who I think would vote for it if it didn’t mean breaking with the majority party leadership.
It's both a R and D issue
You’re absolutely right. Hence my last statement:
If the legislature has no "sense of urgency" about this, then vote them all out, and put in some people will actually give a damn.
I highlighted the Tea Party in my comment, because they are largely the ones blocking Arden Hills, but there are plenty of Dems against any stadium proposal.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
I hate to rain on your silver lining, but....
What happened before the Tea Partiers gained power? The Vikes were trying to get public funding long before anybody invented the Tea Party. Minnesota government has been controlled by the D’s during the past decade while the Vikes have been trying to get public funding. Yet we still have no new stadium.
Next year is a budget year for the men and women at the capital. Unless the state magically has a large surplus on it’s hands, its going to be tough for anyone on either side of the aisle to vote for funding a stadium. At least this year the public isn’t being pounded over the head with budget deficits and a government shutdown. Next year could be just as ugly as last year.
In those years
The Vikes and a lease and there was no real urgency.
Still true
Sure there’s no lease. But with no viable destination and no movement on the part of the Vikings in re relocation, there’s still no real urgency. Voting the Tea Party out won’t change that.
But it would open up more revenue choices for the local partners.
And more viable plans could increase the urgency. It’s easier to stay stagnent if there are no good plans and if the plans that do exist aren’t agreed upon by the 3 parties.
TP legislators are typically (I’d say always but I don’t know the stance of every single TP legislator and I want to avoid an incorrect generalization) anti-tax across the board. This means that any local funding plan that includes raising taxes loses their support right off the bat. Most Dem legislators don’t share that platform.
That doesn’t mean it’s as simple as replace the TP legislators. The D replacement could be a “no state money for stadium ever” person and then you’d have replaced one ideologue who won’t get the Vikings a stadium with another. But the “no new money for a stadium” wing of the DFL doesn’t wield as many numbers or as much power as the “no new taxes” wing of the state Republican party does. As a result, IF a swing were to happen in large enough numbers a more viable path to a stadium might open up.
The big remaining issue (and a big remaining impediment to momentum on the issue) is that the state still hasn’t put forth a funding proposal for it’s share that doesn’t have at least a few major questions still attached to it. Even a local partner funding source involving taxes won’t solve that.
What happened?
Vikes were told to wait while they solved stadium issues for the Twins and Gophers. They couldn’t solve them all at once.
The election year thing may be playing more into this than simple party politics.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Wow
I haven’t been this shocked since it came to light that there was gambling taking place at Rick’s.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 13, 2012 2:20 PM CST reply actions
can we elect jared allen as governor?
who WOULDNT vote for him
by statue_left on Feb 13, 2012 2:50 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions 4 recs
Rec!
Plus, if either side started F’ing around like they have been for many years you, he can line them up and use them for sack practice……no rules applied….horse collars are legal, as well as the Dick Butkus head twist.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
by VikesFaninNM on Feb 13, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions
Vikes Need to File Intent to Move
Whether they have a viable destination right now or not. Zygi needs to file the papers by Wednesday. Until he takes meaningful action towards relocation, he has zero leverage with the legislature.
Cash management 101 says “don’t spend a penny until you absolutely have to”. I’ll bet you a dozen donuts when Zygi gets a net-30 invoice, he takes 29.9 days to pay up. All smart businessmen and women do. So don’t expect the government to write a $300 million check until they absolutely have to. Until there’s a legitimate threat of the Vikings leaving, they have zero motivation to spend a nickel.
heh...
working for a tier 1 automotive supplier, our invoices were net 45….GM would take 90 days to pay us….not 44.9
by michiganpat on Feb 14, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Remember the special legislative session to deal with this?
I’m no expert on how to draft a bill, but I rememer the House leadership saying they weren’t going to call a special session until they had a plan from the Governor. It just seems like the biggest problem is that there isn’t 1 site – with 1 viable financing package so there’s nothing for the legislature to vote on. This is where I feel like Mondale and Dayton are failing. They should say – here’s where we want the stadium – and here’s how we think it should be paid for. Give the legislature a plan to react to, change, amend, improve, vote for/against, etc. Why is this so complicated? Do we know which site Dayton favors? I’m not trying to hammer the guy, but it’s usually the job of the Governor to lead on issues like this – isn’t it??
I think that special session was political theatre
It’s political suicide to call a special session for something that isn’t a direct emergency….calling up the national guard, completing a budget and dealing with other emergencies would qualify. Something that wasn’t even introduced in the regular session, probably not a good idea.
Also, it looks bad on the governor if he calls a special session for something that is sooooo important that the legislature votes it down.
To that end, what could have happened if Dayton did call the special session without any possible path through approval for the bill? The legislators would have torn him a new buttocks. Coming off of the state shutdown with a victory, the legislature had no reason, politically, to listen to the governor on the stadium issue. They found out they could impose their will on the governor.
I can see why Dayton hasn’t come out for a specific proposal….because they are all weak. None of them are properly funded and none of them are politically viable and none of them are popular choices.
also, as you mentioned, the bill would be changed so much going through the legislature, how could Dayton confidently stand for one proposal and then when it is filled with earmarks or other demands that are not acceptable, how could he not support it? Suppose he stated he were for Arden Hills and the legislature wrote the bill so that in order to pay for this stadium, that the arts funds/dnr funds would be reduced to zero. Could Dayton then risk the fallout of not signing the legislation? Could he risk the fallout of signing the legislation?
Point being, to be fairly objective, you have to see the proposal before you can give it approval or rejection. It is up to the legislature to provide that proposal.
I respectfully disagree
It’s up to Dayton and Mondale to develop 1 well qualified plan that can be voted on. Here’s what they said when Ted got the job last year.
“Ted Mondale is uniquely qualified to lead this important organization at this critical time,” said Governor Dayton. “His exceptional dedication to public service, his business experience, and his established relationships with key decision-makers will enable him to represent the best interests of the people of Minnesota in attempting to negotiate a new ’People’s Stadium.’”
“I am honored that Governor Dayton would select me to lead the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission,” said Mondale. “The Metrodome is an important asset to all of Minnesota. I look forward to working with Governor Dayton to ensure that Minnesota continues to have a people’s stadium that benefits the entire state.”
Your memory is wrong
Zellers said no special session, period.
It wasn’t about one plan. It was about taxes.
And that s why Dayton has kept options open.
jesse ventura wouldn't have let this happen.
he would blow the whistle on “the conspiracy”.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Your right
cause he let nothing happen for anyone. Damn near cost us the Twins.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is a war room!
by VikesFaninNM on Feb 13, 2012 7:24 PM CST up reply actions
Jesse's Upside
The one thing Jesse did well was getting the Dems and Rep to agree. As long as it screwed the governor, both sides of the aisle worked quite well together. If Jesse had been vehemently opposed to a new Vikings stadium, the Vikes would be celebrating their 5th anniversary in their new digs by now.
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