Minnesota Vikings Stadium: The White Earth Tribe Is Serious
by Christopher Gates on Feb 15, 2012 5:41 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings Stadium
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PrintEDIT: I need to brush up on my calendar-reading skills. The White Earth Tribe press conference about stadium financing is today at 9 AM Central time. Because today is Thursday. By process of elimination, that means that yesterday was not Thursday. But tomorrow is, indeed, Friday, Friday, gotta get down on Friday.
I really need a nap. Seriously. But, that aside, if we find anything linking to the press conference, we'll effort to put it up here. - Chris
This morning, as I was looking for Vikings news to bring all of you fine people out there, I came across a little tidbit that said that the White Earth Tribe had scheduled a press conference at the State Capitol today with the nebulous heading of "Stadium Financing" being the reason they were calling it. Since the presser apparently started at about 9 AM Central time and I didn't see it until about 9:15 or so, I had no prior knowledge about it and attempted to bludgeon the Twitterverse into seeing if there was any information they could pass along.
Alas, at the time there was not. . .but now it appears that we have a new financing plan from the White Earth Tribe. It appears that they're pretty serious about getting involved here.
On the website pushing the stadium funding idea, MinnesotaWins.com, the tribe outlines their proposal for the casino. They estimate that it would generate $300 million a year that would be divided 50/50 between the tribe and the state, with the tribe also paying property taxes and sales taxes. There would be no new taxes that would have to be introduced on the people of Minnesota to make this happen and. . .this is the big one, in my opinion. . .they've already got financing secured for construction of the casino.
According to the Minnesota Wins website, once the stadium is paid for, all of the money generated by the casino would continue to go to the state. And because the casino would be a partnership with the state of Minnesota, it could be regulated and audited by the state as well.
The only thing that the plan doesn't really specify is where the casino would be built, from what I can see. Would it be built downtown somewhere, possibly in Block E as has long been rumored. . .or would it get built at the Arden Hills site that the Vikings have preferred for their stadium for so long? That remains to be seen.
But, as "GoTwins!" pointed out in the FanShot that was attached to this story (which is where I initially saw it. . .thanks, GoTwins!), if a plan for financing a new Minnesota Vikings stadium sounds like a good one and it makes too much sense, there's only one logical way to look at it.
But I'd really, really like to hope that's not the case.
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Prob stands no shot...
…since the rest of the tribes in the gaming lobby (specifically the metro ones like the Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community who run Mystic Lake) may oppose White Earth getting such a plum spot. Throw in the anti-gambling factions on both sides of the aisle, etc, etc (you know, the same sort of complex mess that comes into play with every proposal).
But yea, they are NOT effing around. And from a pure revenue standpoint this should be a big winner. Because not only does it fund the state’s portion without raising taxes, it appears to provide the state with a long term source of revenue.
Having grown up near White Earth, I can attest to the fact that this kind of revenue could do good work up there if properly distributed (the White Earth reservation is very poor). So maybe that carrot can be used to sway some hesitant DFL votes.
This....this makes to much sense...
$300 million annually, 2500 new jobs just to build the casino, no new taxes and on top of that they are still going to be splitting the revenue with the government after all of it is payed off. This makes to much sense….
Yes
this makes way too much sense… considering that if this deal did go through, it would the new stadium would most likely be constructed in arden hills… as well as it would continue to fund the state after the stadium is paid off, no new taxes, thousands of jobs… hmmmmm yeah,, no way it happens..
Now I dont live in Minnesota....
I live in Ohio….so i have close to zero knowledge on Minny politics and Native American tribes and all that junk, but…..i feel like I have read something about a tribe wanting to do something similar to this and the other tribes completely shot it down before it could ever take off. i hope im wrong, because this could possibly be a a gamebreaker. Besides, Im not a pessimist, Im an optometrist (mad props to anyone who knows where that reference comes from lol)
by Randytheviking17 on Feb 15, 2012 7:25 PM CST via Android app reply actions
Not sure what you're referencing...
But that’s hilarious. I too am an optometrist, and I think this deal makes way too much sense to just be swept under the rug. According to the MinnesotaWins website, the casino is already bought and paid for. I could be reading that wrong, but it sounds like the White Earth Tribe is getting this casino. For whatever reason, they just want to give the state 50%. I agree that this sounds too good to be true and it seems like there should be a catch, but I don’t care.
Again…
Where do we sign?
The night is always darkest before the dawn.
Is this the catch?
I think it may be the location. Up north somewhere vs. in the suburbs of one of the top 20 biggest metropolitan areas in the country? Could be a pretty big deal.
Doc.Smith
You can’t just build a casino whenever/wherever you want, the money really isn’t the issue. I have a feeling White Earth has been hoping this stadium debacle would take an ugly turn so that they can swoop in and look like the good guy(which they are). The problem is: I believe the state has to approved of any gaming institution. Therein lies the problem. It’s not that the plan’s too good to be true. It’s that its STILL in the hands of the politicians. Now, let’s see how much some of the residents of Minnesota start complaining when someone’s trying to hand $$ over to the state. I’m sure there will be outrage because its coming from gambling.
White Horn Gold Pants
no issue here.
though I don’t speak for everyone, but I am probably the one who is most against tax dollars for the stadium on this board.
This.
The tribes can build casinos on their own land without approval. The same is not true elsewhere. The tribe says they have already secured the funding, which simply means that this thing can get built IF it is approved. That’s the catch.
This isn't a new proposal
Assuming it’s the same idea they’ve put forward before, this proposal is attached to the Arden Hills site. The casino would be built adjacent to the stadium as part of the development project in that area (since there’s tons of land to build on in that location).
It’s an awesome plan, but it does have little chance of success I’m afraid. The other tribes will fight it with all they have since it’s such a primo spot (too bad they can’t work out a plan to split revenues evenly between all the tribes). And the anti gambling lobby (which I still don’t get because there are casinos elsewhere in the state) will do their best “think of the children” dance.
But government is about finding a way to make things work between a rock and a hard place though (whether they do it this way, do it through taxes or don’t do it and the team leaves; there will be a lot of people upset). If they can get the stadium built without raising a cent from tax revenue, that might be the best option available of the three.
That's what's upsetting about this:
It really doesn’t seem like it will go through because of the other tribes. While there are the anti-gaming lobbyists, they don’t have much of a voice when there’s enough other things going. Having it turned into a “make money for the state and pay for stadium without taxes” or “we don’t want another gaming site PERIOD” isn’t a bad idea right now because there’s even people who could care less about the stadium, but realize that almost ANY other options involve some sort of taxpayer money and would prefer to just have if paid by gambling, even if they disagree with adding a gaming site. As far as the other tribes are concerned, I’m not sure I understand where that argument lies. I mean, why should the government be allowed to pick and choose who it wants to allow casinos to and who is denied. I mean, seems similar to a government-assisted monopoly. I don’t know any of the rules on that though.
White Horn Gold Pants
I think the argument from the other tribes would likely be...
…something about how the state shouldn’t pick sides at all, that every tribe has the ability to operate their own casino on their reservation. I’m not sure “monopoly” comes into it. Or maybe they won’t bother coming up with an a good argument and will just rely on campaign donations.
If I’m White Earth, I’m pointing out that the SMSC shouldn’t benefit the most of any tribe just b/c their reservation is closest to the Twin Cities and that by approving the casino the state will simultaneously be 1) giving itself revenue that will basically never end while 2) simultaneously giving the largest and poorest tribe in the state a better shot at improving itself. Basically point out “fairness/opportunity” and “mutual benefit”.
I think that's right
It’s really hard to separate the “no expansion of gaming crowd” from those who are interested in protecting native gaming exclusivity. This proposal has the potential to do that IF there is something in it for the other tribes.
The other tribes might be upset because they might loose business. It’s as simple as that.
And what GoAupher said.
I think it's a little new.
As I recall, the last time it was presented the earnings were supposed to benefit other northern tribes (no link, just my memory which could be very wrong). It looks like they cut that part out, perhaps to offer the state a larger cut.
Hmmmm
In most states, the tribe’s casino has to be close to their traditional lands. Guess they can put it anywhere here in Minnesota.
If they have the financing lined up, then the only thing left is to understand how the NFL feels about a stadium being financed by gambling interests. DeBartolo with the 49’ers got in big trouble partly by associating with casinos and got tossed out on his ear by the NFL…
by liveforadrenaline on Feb 15, 2012 7:44 PM CST reply actions
^this^
NFL is not a fan of such plans. That said, the fact that the money is going to the state and then the state is contributing it to the Vikings might make it ok.
True, I mean, its not like the Vikings out outlawed from working with the state if the state is getting casino $$
White Horn Gold Pants
Maybe its just another thing the NFL will have to start conceding.
Can we please stop the hypocrisy just a little bit here, NFL?
White Horn Gold Pants
They can't just put it anywhere.
That’s why this needs state approval. The tribe is simply saying that IF APPROVED they already have the funding to build it lined up.
I've said before that I can get behind this deal
It makes more sense than the state paying for it with no new source of revenue to offset the cost.
I love the idea.
“Because of the partnership with Minnesota, this casino would be regulated and audited by the state, unlike other tribal casinos.”
deals with my largest reservation about this idea. It really seems like a win for all the people of MN, except those currently running gaming in the Twin Cities area. Those people have a lot of representation in their pockets. It will be interesting to see if they can block this proposal.
The NDSU Bison rock.
to be a cynic for a little while,
I wonder if the Vikings will say no to this proposal. I would expect that the Tribe would own the stadium since the tribe is willing to pay the property taxes. I would the tribe would want parking revenue, naming rights revenue and land development revenue….all the money that Wilf wants. I can’t see Wilf agreeing to this, especially if he is going to put in the $450 million. But it could open up negotiations on splitting the revenue streams.
The positives as I see it now….if it can bring in 300 million/yr, the State’s portion could be paid off in 2-3 yrs. Not a bad deal. If the State wants to pay 100% of the entire stadium cost, rather than 30%, then it might take 9-10 yrs to pay off. After the stadium is paid off, the state has a new revenue stream. Assuming the Arden Hills Site, it would be a boon for the hotels and restaurants that were supposed to be built there in the first place. They would get year round business from people going to the casino. The casino would probably get some overflow business from game day visitors.
In the end, though, I don’t think the Vikings will like it because they wouldn’t be getting free money. That is, they wouldn’t be getting the revenue sources they seek, while a private partner is footing the majority of the bill. That’s the same reason why you won’t see an L.A. Vikings team….because Wilf won’t be getting any revenue from that stadium either. In the end, whoever pays for the building should get the majority of the revenue. The Vikings should be free to finance the stadium themselves and then get all associated revenue, but that’s not their aim. They want someone else to pay for it, own it, take all the risks associated with liability insurance, maintenance, upgrades, construction costs, etc., while the Vikings get all the profit. Socialize the cost, privatize the profit. At least with the White Earth Tribe, the costs will be privatized as well as the profits.
'to be a cynic for a little while'
And that is different from every post you’ve ever had about a Vikings stadium in what way?
by Jepp The Viking on Feb 15, 2012 10:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
A private business (Vikings) are paying for 1/3 of a new Gov. owned building
I don’t know why people are against this?
Vikings Valhalla .com
by Admiral BigGun on Feb 15, 2012 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
mainly because while they are paying 1/3 of the initial building cost
they want none of liability insurance or maintenance costs, but they want 3/3 of all revenues.
not true... please read the proposal
The Vikings will pay any and all annual stadium operating
expenses (estimated at $17 million per year, less $1.5 million
Ramsey County annual contribution). The Vikings will also be
responsible for all costs incurred by municipal services (i.e. police/
security, traffic control, fire prevention, emergency medical,
street cleaning, etc.).
* The Vikings and the County will each contribute annually to a
Capital Reserve Fund, and the Vikings will be responsible for any
and all capital repairs, replacements and improvements for the
stadium and parking facilities.
* The Vikings will retain all revenues derived from NFL game-day
operations of the stadium and parking facilities. The third-party
operator will retain all revenues from ancillary events to off set
stadium operating costs.
Why exactly would the vikings want to pay for maintenance on a building that they are leasing? do you do that with your car?
Do you pay for a 1/3 of a car you are leasing up front? or a building you are running your business out of? I don’t know anyone that does that.
Vikings only collect revenue for “Viking events”.
Did i mention that this will be a 100% taxpayer/state owned building.?
Vikings Valhalla .com
by Admiral BigGun on Feb 16, 2012 8:39 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They said
He tribe will pay property taxes on the casino.
So far, it doesn’t look like they expect to own the stadium.
that's just it, if they didn't own it, why would they pay the property taxes?
I suppose, possibly to entice Ramsey County or Minneapolis or other city/county government to spend that partner’s share? County gets a new revenue stream, perhaps the voters will pass a referendum or the State Legislature will be more willing to allow the tax increase without a voter referendum?
Either way, new revenue source for the state, new revenue source for the county. This is a win from the state and county perspectives. Still not sure about from the Viking’s perspective (again, who owns the revenues for parking and land development and naming rights?).
Chris3
The only part the Casino has in the Stadium situation is the fact that they want to pay the state’s portion(and possibly the local partner’s too, don’t remember and don’t want to look right now). White Earth will in no way shape or form be associated with the stadium. They will simply give the state/county their portion of the $$. They will receive $0.00 in revenue from the stadium. They mentioned the property taxes and having it fully funded. That is for the CASINO. They aren’t asking for tax exemption and they’re not asking the state for help in building it either(the casino building that is). They’re basically just trying to payoff the state’s permission to allow them to have the casino. Just like every other game in the casino, they’ve got a loaded hand. They’re using the failed proposals for the stadium as leverage to swoop in here and be the hero and are willing to pay huge amounts of $$$ to “help out”. They’re so willing to help because it’s going to be a net-WIN for them anyways.
White Horn Gold Pants
I thought the proposal a few months ago
was that the casino would be physically attached to the stadium, or at least on some of that land that Ziggy wanted to develop around the AH site. Perhaps I was wrong.
It was then
It does not appear to be now.
The proposal so far is
The White Earth tribe builds a casino and shares the revenue with the state. The state does what it wants with the revenue, including building a stadium.
So far anyway, none of what you mention seems in play. The little detail we have suggests the tribe won’t own the stadium, which is smart for avoiding league concerns about entanglement with gambling.
What revenues the team gets depends on what they negotiate with the state.
HEY I'M FAMOUS! (At least my meme is)
I did this one too, but went with the other for my last post….
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
by Go Twins! on Feb 15, 2012 9:13 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
That's a rec.
Really Wilf should be jumping on board with this asap. Just look at the comments on the site. Usually, when proposals use state money, anything brought up about billionaire welfare is still the most popular answer. The rhetoric is there and it’s not going away.
Now this can actually get the public behind it. The “billionaire welfare” rhetoric filled comments are finally unpopular as the idea makes sense for the Vikes, the tribe, and the state. The biggest opposition is going to come from the tribes that the new casino would compete with. They’re the ones with the most to loose so their lobbying (see: bribing) will likely be the heaviest against it if this takes off the ground.
Since these were popular I posted more here
http://www.dailynorseman.com/2012/2/15/2801537/vikings-stadium-debate-in-memes
I was just entertaining myself with these…
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
Crosseyes: Wilf can't "jump" on this plan
It’s not his decision. He can’t get the state to take $$ from the casino. It’s up to them to decided, again. In fact, Wilf should probably just ignore it because he won’t want to look like the NFL is working side by side with gambling institutions. That’s a big no-no by the league. If the STATE accepts that offer from White Earth, then Wilf can start getting some more proposals together.
White Horn Gold Pants
He can at least make a statement in effect
“We would have no objections to this plan should the State of Minnesota approve it”. Or some other statement intended to let the fans know they would not stand in the way of such a deal and let the politicians know that the fans would support this because the Vikings are fine with it. But they have to be very clear that the ball is in the state’s court and that they will not be campaigning for or against this solution.
This makes A WHOLEBUNCHA good CENTS (And Dollars too).
It’s time to make a new push… contact your rep, your gov, your vikings owner, your friends, your enemy, your dog, any anyone else who stands still enough to listen. THIS needs to happen at the Arden Hills site.
Anyone against gambling needs to understand… LIFE is a gamble… crossing the street is a gamble… leaving your house is a gamble… this proposal is full of SO MUCH WIN!
*why do i have the feeling that it has no chance? … no … cant … afford… negative… thoughts…
ARDEN HILLS ARE ALIVE!!!
With the sound of Norsemen!
I am soo going to give white earth some of my money.
Vikings Valhalla .com
by Admiral BigGun on Feb 15, 2012 10:31 PM CST reply actions
me too as long as they're not stupid like Mystic and ONLY have blackjack
Uh, the other games are way more fun: Paigow, Let it ride, etc. Blackjack and slots? Eh, that gets a little old after a while.
White Horn Gold Pants
Um, I don't think Mystic is choosing to be that way.
I’m pretty sure that is part of some agreement with the state.
Well, that little factoid is from my faulty memory (thus no link)...
But it think that it explains why WI casinos have games than MN casinos don’t. So take it with a grain of salt. =)
This stadium debate is starting to remind me of
Chinese Democracy by Guns n Roses. Lots of talk, never materializes. Then it materializes when nobody cares anymore and it wasn’t worth the wait. Okay, I’m a little early on the part about the stadium materializing but you get my drift.
A few creative thoughts from an insomniac.
Instead of building casinos, the White Earth Tribe should build a series of riverboats in DT STP. White Earth gets a novel form of gambling and DT STP gets revitalized. And since the riverfront is nowhere near any residential areas, drunken gamblers would be contained to just the riverboats. The other Indian Tribes will feel left out. It’s a given. And Minneapolis would feel left out too. However, Minneapolis could also allow the tribes to build an e-pulltab casino in Block E, where people can bring their tablets to the casino, download some pulltab software, buy a few alphanumeric pulltab codes, and see if the codes are winners.
The former idea, like I said, could rebuild the STP riverfront and the latter could revolutionize gambling to the point where people would come to Minnesota as a vacation destination instead of going to Vegas.
I hope TPTB hear these ideas.
I don't care if it's in grand marais
as long as the Vikes stay in our state. It’s ridiculous to have to worry about a home for the team. At least it looks like we have a team next year!
Go Vikes!!!!
by LetsGoTwoSmokes on Feb 16, 2012 5:58 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Couple of things
First the presser isn’t for another hour or so, you didn’t miss it.
Second I doubt block e is on the table as its owned by a developer who wants there on casino. But who knows.
Finally, I just have no sense of the viability of something like this. It’s come up in stadium debates past and gone nowhere despite making a whole lot of sense. I guess I expect the same here, but I’d love to here where the opposition comes from. Is it the no gambling crowd? The other tribes? The team and league? The neighboring city? All of the above?
I'm sure they have a couple locations in mind
They should just plop it where the metrodome is.
White Horn Gold Pants
I'm sure they do
I just think it’s smart not to specify yet and cut down on the NIMBY sentiment.
I vote for all of the above.
Then again, I’ve always had a gut feeling that the solution would come out of nowhere (like the whole Hennipen County/Target Field thing) so maybe this is that “out of left field” moment for the Vikings Stadium?
Thinking some more
$300 million a year s way more than needed for the Vikes. But the casino on block e and use some of the money to renovate target center. That way there is something in it for Minneapolis to compensate for losing the Vikes and it’s win-win-win (except for the current energy of block e).
That's not a bad idea. If you basically need everyone's permission to do something
Might as well make sure everyone gets a piece of the pie or else you’ll stand opposition.
White Horn Gold Pants
Yeah, although I don't how it all works out
There is some local opposition to a Block E casino, so maybe that actually help rather than hurts. But I think it would be a great deal.
Again, except for the current owners of Block E, who want their own casino.
From elsewhere in the Strib
“We’re opposed to expansion of gambling and we’re opposed to off-reservation gambling, no matter who does it,” he said.
Maybe
Or maybe, “you can’t have a casino because I want to keep my pockets fat.”
Apparently the White Earth band is not a member of the gaming association, so it’s not really a surprise they the gaming association is against it. Or, yeah, what you said.
Good to know...
Apparently the White Earth band is not a member of the gaming association
Hmmm…that’s interesting.
Also
Since I looked at twitter to see if there was anything at the press conference:
MPR’s Tim Nelson is tweeting about an interview with Ted Mondale saying that a stadium announcement for a new stadium adjacent to the Metrodome could come in the next couple of days. The bill is apparently drafted and they are working through “5 or 6 items” with the Vikings.
Hmm, think Wilf will get greedy and hold off for this casino business to go through
Of course Minneapolis has some magic left in the tank once something new comes up that threatens the Vikings leaving downtown.
White Horn Gold Pants
I don't
I don’t think the casino possibility is very real, and I don’t think WIlf will delay things for it.
Meanwhile
KARE’s John Croman tweets: "White Earth Chairwoman Erma Vizenor says she shared casino plan with @GovMarkDayton 2 weeks ago and “he supports it.”
I’m skeptical about that.
I'm sure he supports it...
…in the way he “supports” all plans. He just won’t expend political capital for it perhaps.
Maybe
Tom Hauser of KSTP tweets:
Gov. Dayton tells me the White Earth casino plan isn’t “viable…other tribes would oppose what they’re trying to do.”
That is perhaps the dumbest reason I have ever heard
It isn’t viable because competitors would disapprove with it.
First off:
-Nobody has said they disapprove so saying it isn’t viable now for a possible future opposition by a minority of the states citizens is ridiculous.
Now, not to sound like I am anti-native americans because I am not, but opposition to this by the other tribes should not factor in…they all have casinos so their opposition is based on competitiveness, not based on the benefit to the state. The number one consideration should be how this benefits the state. Government is based on the majority. The order in this state is not indians first, everyone else second.
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
Actually, they already came out against it.
But while true, he sounds ridiculous when he says out loud that this is why its not viable.
Really?
He’s saying tat enough legislator agree ($$$) with the Indian Gaming Assocation.
I know what he's saying.
But when you hear it phrased like Hauser puts it the context is lost and it sounds dumb. Not everyone knows the issues like we do and gets what he means.
Saddle du jour
Dayton rides whichever horse seems to be in the lead when he wakes up in the morning. At some point in time, he’s supported every legitimate proposal that’s been presented.
NEWS STORY FROM 5 EYEWITNESS HERE
http://kstp.com/news/stories/S2498136.shtml?cat=1
Remember, remember the seventh of November.
Makes too much sense
Cost of a new stadium would be little more than a drop in the bucket if ganbling, the worlds oldest profession and maryjane were legalized and made a legitiment industry.cost saving for law enforcement that fails miserably would be astronomical.
by favregasms on Feb 16, 2012 11:28 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Here's a couple articles
now lets pull a gary anderson/brett favre
and fuck ourselves over when given the perfect situation.
by statue_left on Feb 16, 2012 1:04 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
From a finance perspective...
Gambling isn’t really a great idea. It’s an unstable funding source (paper pull tabs, for example, generate less and less revenue each year). The bond markets recognize this, and they won’t give very good interest rates on the bonds they’ll sell to finance the stadium. Also consider that building a new casino opens the door to more gambling in the area, which would cut into whatever profits the stadium casino would generate.
How in the world does it open any doors?
All they do is pass legislation specific to the one casino. Done. Then any new gambling options have to come back to the state where they can be promptly shot down. IF (and it’s a HUGE if based on previous history) this plan ever came together it is unlikely (again, based on history of similar attempts) that it passes with the kind of majority that should result in worries of “future gambling in the area”.
That and
A casino is less “risky” as a revenue source than things like pull tabs. At the rates the White Earth folks are talking about, it isn’t going to take the state long to raise the funds to pay for a stadium, so bond markets don’t need to be sold on 30 year of stable revenue. A handful of year is apparently more than enough.
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