Minnesota Vikings Stadium: White Earth Tribe Outlines Financing Plan
by Christopher Gates on Feb 16, 2012 7:22 PM CST
in Minnesota Vikings Stadium
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PrintApologies for the late start today, ladies and gentlemen.
Today at the State Capitol, the White Earth Tribe outlined their plan for a stadium financing deal involving a new casino. Apparently they are not married to any one particular location when it comes to the casino, meaning they could place it anywhere the state asked them to. That means it could be at a place like Block E, where the city has been trying to get something developed for a while now, or even on the site at Arden Hills where the Vikings have been trying to get a stadium built for a while.
The White Earth Tribe runs another casino in Minnesota already, the Shooting Star Casino in Mahnomen, but it doesn't generate a heck of a lot of money for Minnesota's largest. . .and poorest. . .tribe.
Legislation was actually introduced this week, with bi-partisan support, that would allow this particular deal to move forward. The State reps that have sponsored the bill are Steve Eken (D - Twin Valley) and Bob Gunther (R - Fairmont). Eken said today during the press conference that he is lining up bi-partisan support for the bill and expects it to move forward.
Maybe this bill has some sort of momentum after all. We'll see what happens with it going forward.
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I would hope it has momentum...
Even the idiots at the State Capital couldn’t screw this up…
The night is always darkest before the dawn.
You underestimate
The level of idiocy at the State Capitol.
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by Christopher Gates on Feb 16, 2012 7:53 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I've heard other things
That had “bi-partisan support” that went exactly nowhere. Would be great but i’m not holding my breath.
by Amrius on Feb 16, 2012 7:54 PM CST via Android app reply actions
I'm sure the 'no new taxes' people
will still bitch and moan about how gambling is evil and we shouldn’t support it and blah blah blah and i’m really sick of this stadium stuff.
I put a 50 dollar deposit down for season tickets this year (out of state season ticket holder) and if the legislator effs this stadium thing up, i can almost guarantee i will not be spending my entertainment dollars in the state of minnesota for Vikings (also a partial season ticket holder for the Twins)
when asked by Dan Patrick if his name alluded to not making quick decisions in the pocket, Ponder calmly replied "As crazy as it sounds, my mom's maiden name is actually Superbowlwinner. All one word"
The no new taxes people
Should be fine with this. I’m sure there will be people who will be opposed because they see gambling is a social vice and shouldn’t be supported this way. The two arent mutually inclusive though.
by Amrius on Feb 16, 2012 8:10 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Quite frankly the groups should be mutually exclusive.
The “no new taxes for me” group are the ones who would be incredibly selfish while the “gambling is a social vice” people have the good intentions but want to stick their nose and morals into other peoples’ lives where they don’t belong.
Tru dat
I’ve never understood how some people justify certain actions. Minnesota is ok with casinos, but only so many and only at certain places? C’mon, who cares? People destroy their OWN lives when they choose to gamble away their savings and whatnot. Its the same as the use of tobacco. There’s an age-limit on it and if you’re old enough, you’re supposed to be able to make the decision for yourself. If you can’t and you need help, well, just like anything else, get some help. Besides, there’s plenty of people who gamble for fun and can control themselves. Society’s funny like that. MINNESOTA!!!! YOU ALREADY HAVE CASINOS!!!!
White Horn Gold Pants
Minnesota is ok with Indian Reservation casinos...
…because they have no say in them. The tribes have Supreme Court rulings that make it clear they have the autonomy to run gaming on their tribal lands regardless of what the state thinks. It’s not the state suddenly deciding to be difficult after being lax for all these years.
Technically
I think we have neighbors with casinos on their sovereign tribal lands.
Functionally the same thing, except those who see it as a moral question — whether the state should enable socially harmful gambling — might see a difference.
to AMiller and GoAupher
I gotcha. I didn’t know exactly how that worked up there. If they want a case study on county/state involvement in casinos then check out Prairie Meadows. That’s fully owned by Polk County (Des Moines).
White Horn Gold Pants
Prairie Meadows is also
the number one contributor of taxes in Polk County. I heard a study that it pays more to the county than the top 5 other business combined. I don’t remember where i heard it, so i might be spouting off stuff i don’t know, but they do pretty well, and they do a lot for the community. (which is why they can pretty much do whatever they want IE exemption to the smoking ban)
when asked by Dan Patrick if his name alluded to not making quick decisions in the pocket, Ponder calmly replied "As crazy as it sounds, my mom's maiden name is actually Superbowlwinner. All one word"
joliet, IL
two river boat casinos. Everyone there is of the firm belief that those casinos turned that dying area around
It's one thing to have cenvention centers and sports arenas or other event centers
along with restaurants, hotels, and other attractions to bring people into the region and its quite the other to have a casino where people will literally drop their money at.
Sure, there’s people locally that have gambling problems that its probably not the best thing for, but those people need help. Having casinos only on reservations and/or riverboats isn’t going to stop them from gambling.
White Horn Gold Pants
Especially when
The nearest one is only a half hour away from downtown anyway.
That's been my thought on this too.
A White Earth casino in the metro only makes casino gambling slightly more accessible then it already would be.
I wonder if "gambling accessibility"
is just an argument conjured up by legislators who are in the pocket of Mystic Lake and the other casino lobbyers. If there is a casino proposed that would compete with them, they cry about the evils of expanded gambling.
by Are we cursed? on Feb 17, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure that's true in some cases.
In other cases, it’s prob just what they believe. All part of this fun legislative puzzle.
Gambling is just a tax on people bad at math.
like the Lotto…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
And one of the only taxes
That the people who pay it are happy about.
by amiller92 on Feb 17, 2012 8:29 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It would be nice if sometimes I had to pay the tax
and sometimes I end up doubling all of my money and goign home with extra. Hell, I wouldn’t mind flipping a coin to decide if I have to pay or not.
White Horn Gold Pants
they would let you do that, too
but the majority of people would keep pushing their luck, trying to win more.
lol frist flipping a coin is not going to happen
the odds are even. There is no game in a casino where the odds of you winning are 50/50 the are all set for the house to take in more than it lets out. That’s where the bad at math part comes into play.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Please please please
Best plan I think…new stadium outdoor, casino close to family in the cities and the tribe gets more money…they are a poor tribe and could change their lives a lot.
by Night_Hawker5000 on Feb 16, 2012 8:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Wouldn't the casino have to be...
far enough away from Mystic Lake so their lobby won’t put their muscle into fighting the idea? It might have to be far from Grand Casino in Hinckley, also.
And far enough from Shakopee.
I think it will be those tribes who’s influence kills this. They have purchased many MN legislators.
The NDSU Bison rock.
Since White Earth isn't part of the Indian Gaming group
I’d say anywhere in Minnesota would probably be “too close” for them.
I suppose if they were part of the Indian Gaming group...
there would be no splitting money with the state.
by Are we cursed? on Feb 16, 2012 9:33 PM CST up reply actions
from the pioneer press
http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_19979865
Would you people think less of the Vikings if they let Arden Hills and Ramsey County out to dry? After the Blaine debacle a few years ago, I would. Here they are doing everything they can to get a stadium in Minneapolis that will have none of the features that they wanted at Arden Hills. Yet after the one public partner in Ramsey County stepped up and tried a few ways, they are leaving the local partner hanging. We should have seen Arden Hills as a red herring…..
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikings_Stadium
Wilf’s Vikings began acquiring significant land holdings in the Downtown East neighborhood around the Metrodome in June 2007, the Vikings acquired four blocks of mostly empty land surrounding the Star Tribune headquarters from Avista Capital Partners (the private equity owner of the Star Tribune) for $45 million; it is also believed the Vikings have first right of refusal to later buy the paper’s headquarters building.8 In May 2007, the Vikings also acquired three other downtown parking lots for a total of $5 million, and have made a bid for a city-owned, underground parking ramp next to the neighborhood’s light rail station.8
I apologize for my knee jerk reaction
When the news showed that a deal in Minneapolis was almost completed, it seemed to me that everything Ziggy was saying about “The best possible Fan experience” and linking that to tailgating was a crock of crap. Add into that it seems (and therefore don’t have concrete proof), but it seems that the Wilfs were working much harder to get the Minneapolis Stadium than they were to get the Arden Hills Stadium.
It's politics
And they are trying to get the best deal they can.
If Zygi had a sure thing in Arden Hills then I think he would take that in a heartbeat
BTW, Zygi isn’t the one that has to come up with a viable plan for AH, it’s Ramsey County that needs to figure out their portion. The Vikings were even willing to pay MORE to build out in AH. They’ve said over and over that AH is their preferred site, but the reality is that they will take the sure thing. They can try to get AH figured out all they want, but if Ramsey County can’t come up with the $400M they planned on then its never going to work. It does sounds like the Metrodome location is getting super-close, but I wonder if Zygi will hold on that to see what happens with this casino bsuiness. I’m guessing he would push for AH.
White Horn Gold Pants
I think thats mostly right
But I don’t think Zygi will wait for this as I don’t think this is going anywhere.
Umm, that deal fell through years ago. That portion of the Wikipedia article was never updated.
http://finance-commerce.com/2011/12/star-tribune-keen-to-sell-land-near-metrodome/
The Vikings still prefer the Arden Hills site but they’re going to take whatever stadium deal they can get passed through the political process. Nothing disingenuous about it. Also, you might want to read the first sentence of the paragraph preceding the one you quoted from Wikipedia.
“From the outset, Zygi Wilf, the New Jersey billionaire and principal beneficiary of the publicly funded project,6 had stated he was interested in redeveloping the downtown site of the Metrodome no matter where the new facility was built.”
by CanadianViking on Feb 16, 2012 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
Same guy who did it yesterday.
Build up your weaknesses until they become your strong points." --Knute Rockne
and when I find that bastard, I'll....
wait…why is my cereal bowl in the bathroom?
Not gonna happen
Simple as that. Tribes don’t like it. No location. No influence. Not happening.
True, but money talks
i mean, they might not be “in anyone’s pockets yet”, but if they can show realistic growth and profits for the state to get on an anual basis, the state should hear them out. There’s gambling in state and I understand its allowed on reservation land, but for a state to start making some large profits off one? That’s tough to pass up, not to mention clearing up this whole Stadium situation. For the people screaming NO new taxes!! and STOP spending!! I wonder if they would come up with a slogan saying STOP turning down hundreds of millions of dollars!!
White Horn Gold Pants
"Should" and "will" are sadly so far apart sometimes.
I’m not going to lie, I’m a cynic about this getting a shot at passage. I think the White Earth tribe has been shrewd with the offer which makes me feel a bit more hope for it, but not much.
It may be less shrewd than I originally thought
My first reaction was that not including a location was smart for showing flexibility and avoiding a strong NIMBY response. But as I’ve thought about it some more, those things might be outweighed by not having a champion.
Who in the legislature is going to push for a casino “somewhere?” Obviously they can add a location at any time, but I think what probably happened is that they couldn’t find anyone in the metro who wanted to back them.
Despite the money it can generate, my guess is a lot of politicians are wary of the politics of a casino. When I contacted my legislator about a Block E casino, he responded with concern about “crime” and “social harm.” I think a lot of people see casinos as an undesirable addition to their community, even though I think those concerns are probably significantly overblown.
I can see your point there.
On the whole though, I still think it’s a shrewd plan. It offers the state a sizable amount of money per year, oversight of the books/regulations, prefunded, solves the state funding for the stadium without tax increases, and the tribal component would be used to help an impoverished group of people. It checks off a lot of boxes across the political spectrum. Again, I doubt it’s enough to overcome the gaming lobby/anti-casino feelings (like the ones you list) but I still think its a good play. After all, what’s the worst that happens for White Earth? They say no?
But the politicians themselves...
would be turning down large amounts of Native American lobbying money if they let this deal go through. Remember, take care of yourself first, your constituents, second. :(
by Are we cursed? on Feb 17, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Pushing the casino could help some reelections though
If someone asks you what you did for the state. Uh, I pushed to make sure the state received $300Mill a year from a casino instead of having it go 100% to a tribe.
White Horn Gold Pants
Well, that might be a good strategy.
You will have to get multiple elected officials to follow that path to get the necessary support to pass this thing.
by Are we cursed? on Feb 17, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
As GoAUpher said
(Seems like I say that a lot), it makes sense, but that doesn’t mean it will happen.
Just read the document
The vomit of legal verbose was overkill. Seriously.. who has time to make sense of it? Reading a financial report for a publically traded company is much easier.
Vikings in 2012 will be a Wonder-ful year. Seriously!!
I also love the game of golf. My favorite golf GPS app is OptimalClub.
It is hands down the BEST golf aid you'll ever have for club distances
under current elevation and weather conditions. Stop guessing & score low!
by VikesFanSince1967 on Feb 17, 2012 8:03 AM CST reply actions
I don't know if this is right
But this guy is saying that there might be problems similar to those facing Fon-du-luth in enforcing any agreement with the White Earth tribe to share revenues with the state. I no nothing about the federal law involved, so I don’t know if he’s right.
Interesting.
Good find! Certainly stimulates conversation, at least about the potential pitfalls of such an agreement. The legality is way past my skill set, but if true raises it’s own set of complications/considerations.
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