Spielman on the draft: "If one of those QBs is too good to pass up..."
A couple of weeks ago, I posted an interview with Robert Griffin III. http://www.dailynorseman.com/2012/2/4/2771039/interesting-rgiii-interview-with-sports-illustrated I really liked what he had to say and the manner in which he said it. The post generated a lot of comments in part because there is a lot of passion regarding our quarterback situation, and in part, because it's the off season and what else do we really have to talk about. One common theme that has been thrown about these days is that there is NO WAY we will take a QB with our #3 pick. Some have cited Spielman telling Ponder he'd be the starter going into OTAs as well as Ponder's comments that the Vikings won't take a QB at #3.
“He’s going to be our starting quarterback when everyone is back for OTAs,” Spielman said of Ponder.
That matches what Ponder said on today’s Dan Patrick Show: He’s been assured that the Vikings will use the third overall pick in the NFL draft on a position other than quarterback.
“I talked to our G.M. yesterday, and we had some conversations about who we’re thinking about drafting, and we’ll see,” Ponder said. “I kind of have an idea.”
At the time there was some debate about whether or not Ponder should have made that comment. Suffice it to say, the pre-draft information and misinformation campaign is in full swing. Spielman is now quoted as saying that the Vikings will in fact being evaluating QBs as part of their draft preparations and "if one of those quarterbacks is too good to pass up..." Well, he doesn't exactly say they will grab him, but that door is definitely left open.
It's hard to trust anything that Spielman and company have to say at this time of year. However, my hope is that he is open to all possibilities. We won't have a shot at Luck. I doubt very much we'll have a shot at RG3, but if for some reason the Rams select Kalil, and RG3 is sitting there at #3, I want to believe that Spielman would consider the guy. Frankly, he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't.
A committed relationship with Christian Ponder won't keep the Vikings from checking out the top quarterbacks in this year's NFL draft.
"I know we're very confident in Christian, but if one of those quarterbacks is too good to pass up, you also have to weight that in, too," Vikings General Manager Rick Spielman said. "But we're very, very confident in what Christian Ponder brings. As we go through this process and our coaches come into this process and we put this thing together in April, I don't know where we'll be."
Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck is expected to be taken No. 1 overall by the Colts. Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III is a prime candidate to be taken No. 2 because the Rams are looking to trade down from that spot. The Vikings have the third pick and have little to no need for a quarterback after using last year's first-round pick on Ponder.
But just in case something unexpected happens, Spielman said the team will interview Luck and Griffin at the combine and might include them in the 30 prospects that they'll invite to Winter Park before the draft.
"We'll be doing full monty on [Luck] and RG3," Spielman said. "You never know what happens on draft day, and I would rather be overprepared than underprepared."
I wouldn't suggest that this quote means that if RG3 is available to us at #3, Spielman would take him... but I wouldn't be sorry if he did. Actually, I think I'd be pretty excited.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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I'd be shocked if we drafted a QB
I think RGIII could be getting a little overhyped. I mean, Luck is supposed to be this once in a generation type prospect and some people are now saying that RGIII should be drafted ahead of Luck? Doesn’t make sense to me. Luck has been there a few years. Where was RGIII last year? Sure, he’s played on a relatively bad team, but it’s all kind of out of nowhere to me. Maybe he is the real deal, but I believe that Webb has a similar skillset to RGIII and don’t see a reason why we would draft him. Plus, you can’t draft a QB 2 years in a row. We simply have too many other needs and we won’t know how good our QBs are if we don’t give them some protection up front.
White Horn Gold Pants
by DM_Purp on Feb 18, 2012 1:00 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
While I don't expect Spielman will draft RG3 I do hope he's honest about keeping an open mind heading into the draft.
There’s been a lot of discussion about auctioning off the #3 pick if RG3 is still on the board. I’m curious if some of those QB needy teams that are targeting RG3 might inquire about Ponder while talking trade with Spielman. Say we’re on the clock and talking to the Redskins and they won’t offer enough to the Vikings to move up to #3 for RG3 but instead make an offer for Ponder. Could Spielman end up in a situation where he could draft RG3 while having a deal for Ponder in place? It might be an unlikely scenario but I’m curious what kind of compensation people would want in return for Ponder if this occurred.
Pure misinformation from Spielman
Unless, by the grace of God, Luck falls to number 3, then I think he would pull that trigger. I agree with DM_Purp above that RG3 is getting over hyped. Everyone wants that athletic quarterback with a great arm, yet there is only one Vick and Newton, a physical freak with a good mental attitude, may not even enjoy the success of Vick. With that said, Vick’s success is limited, to say the least. RG3 is the newest shiny thing to come along and I am not buying it. I am not convinced he will be a success in the NFL, to be honest.
I agree.
Total smokescreen. He has to make teams believe that he would draft RGIII if he was there so he doesn’t spear the trade demand for his pick.
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
Its a win-win for him to say that, yes.
If teams believe him for whatever reason, they’ll try to trade with the Rams to get ahead of us and take RGIII when the Colts pass. “How is missing out on RGIII a win?!” I hear some folks thinking. The answer: It leaves us with our choice of the top non-QB talent.
If teams don’t believe him, it lets him shop the pick a bit since it comes right before the Browns.
Obviously though, I find it highly unlikely, with the #1 LT/WR prospect sitting there (presumably) that he’d take another QB just a year after grabbing Ponder. That would make him look like a complete buffoon for wasting the #12 pick in ’11 for a potential back-up QB.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 18, 2012 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
I agree so hard.
On a separate note, it’s kinda nice having a GM to set up these smokescreens. These veiled comments would never have happened last year or any time before that. Let the trickery begin!
Here’s to hoping that we’ll keep this same format from here on out. One man who has the final say.
Is Ponder
currently helping Spielman not look like a buffoon for taking him at 12? Come now, Do the Jacksonville Jaguars seem less buffoonish to you because they passed on Ben Roethlesberger to give Byron Leftwitch more time?
Jimmy Johnson spent back-to back #1 overall selections on quarterbacks.
Jerry Jones spends picks on WR’s like no one & took the coveted tackle with a high pick last year. Which one would you prefer Spielman drafts like?
If you can get a possible franchise QB & you don’t know if you have one, you do it.
Remember when we passed on Marino because we had Marino? Remember when we selected D. Nelson for his hands over Marcus Allen? How about when we skipped on Sapp & went Alexander due to rumor? Ahhh, good times.
by Purple Faithful on Mar 7, 2012 8:10 PM CST up reply actions
and then next year, when you're not sure if you have a franchise QB, you draft one again, and again, and again, etc
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
RGIII is probably more developed as a passer than Vick or Newton coming out of college. And it’s also been said that he’s a really smart QB who supposedly has a great grasp of the game. He’s not really your typical spread offense running QB coming out of college.
by packallday555 on Feb 18, 2012 7:24 PM CST up reply actions
i think he would be stupid not to have these guys in for a look
no matter what his plans are. it is a chance to see the goods up close for the sake of comparison. if you drive a taurus, and someone gives you the opportunity to test drive a porsche or a ferrari, what would you do….exactly, go burn some freakin rubber. it might not result in ditching the taurus, bet hey, at least you know what you are missing ;).
actually, i think it will help in evaluating the potential trade market for him because you will see a lot more of what they are about. i don’t think we will pick griggin, but i would be fine with it if we did, as long as they can trade away ponder for a number 2 pick or a good young player at a different position that fills an immediate need.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
if you drive a taurus, and someone gives you the opportunity to test drive a porsche or a ferrari, what would you do….exactly, go burn some freakin rubber.
In the backseat? (:
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 19, 2012 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
Porsche's and Ferrari's
Don’t usually have back seats.
by Amrius on Feb 19, 2012 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So basically...
If Andrew Luck is available at #3, we take him.
If not, Christian Ponder is our starting QB next year.
...though that's not what Spielman said.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
You keep holding out hope for us to draft a QB early.
I’ll stick with Christian Ponder. We’ll see who’s right.
Unless Andrew Luck is there, we aren’t taking a QB. It’s that simple.
Think what you want, It really doesn’t matter to me, but we will be starting Christian Ponder or Andrew Luck to kick off the 2012 season. And Andrew Luck won’t be there at #3.
Christian Ponder it is. And I couldn’t be happier.
If Kalil is gone and we don't get phenominal trade terms...
…yeah, I think RG3 would be an awesome pick. Granted, I didn’t go to Florida State.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
Did you go to Baylor?
Ha I didn’t got to FSU either. I just have been supportive of Ponder since before the draft. I am not 100% sure he’s the answer, but he hasn’t shown that he isn’t, and with what we’ve invested in him we’ll wait until he is a proven bust before we give up on him. (Which I don’t think will happen. I think he’ll be a very good NFL QB)
I think that we are in a good situation here, we will either have Kalil, the #2 prospect in the draft (who also fills our #1 need), fall to us at 3 or we will have about 6 teams calling us to get ahold of the #3 pick. I really think (If Luck goes #1 and Kalil goes #2) we will be able to pick up at least a 1st, 2nd, and probably a 2nd next year to move down 4-7 spots.
I’m in the “Kalil or bust” wagon, but picking up 2 extra 2nd rounders and still ending up with Martin or Reiff isn’t bad.
We need help in so many areas I would be shocked if we took a QB before the 6th round. I would also be shocked if Andrew Luck fell to #3, and that’s the only way I see us seriously considering taking a QB early. (If Luck does somehow fall to #3, I think we could ask for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, a (2013) 1st, and a (2013) 4th… and someone would give that up.) That’d be tough to pass on with this many team needs…
Agreed 100% but ...
if the front office feels he is too good to pass up and they do not get a good enough offer to move down then I will not be upset if they take him. Their jobs will be on the line of course but that is the case no matter who they pick.
The question the Vikings must ask themselves if they evaluate RG3 as a true franchise caliber QB and think his upside is higher than Ponders, is when will be the next time they have a chance to pick #3 in the draft and have a QB like RG3 right there for the taking.
That is what it comes down to for me. I do not care that they drafted Ponder last year and I do not think they have much invested besides his 4 year 10.1 mil deal. That is peanuts. Sure they could have drafted someone else but who knows who that would have been and if they would pan out.
I still think that they will not do it though. But they need to make teams believe that they will in order to drive up the price if the Rams take Kalil or to force team to trade with the Rams in fear of the Vikings actually taking RG3. Then they get Kalil who could be the #1 player on their board.
In 3 years, Ponder will be a much better QB than RG3...
That’s how I feel. So I think it’s crazy to talk about taking a QB when we could be so much better off using that pick on a WR or CB or OT or DT or OG or MLB or SS or FS to name a few (actually 8 positions that need more help than QB)
Throw in the fact that Ponder was our first round pick not even 1 year ago and I think this is silly. Flat out silly. But that’s just me.
I understand you think Ponder will be much better than RG3 in 3 years...
…but there is no sensible reason that I can come up with to believe that. Ponder’s main attraction in the draft was that he was the most NFL ready QB in the draft. It was not that he had the biggest upside.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 20, 2012 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
pre-draft
analysts said Blaine Gabbert was the best pro prospect at QB too. Right now, I’d take Newton, Dalton, Ponder, and Locker over him. I really don’t care what pre-draft analysts said. I know what I saw, and what I saw was a young, promising QB with NO O-Line and 1 good WR. If the defense covered Percy for 2.5 seconds Ponder was either sacked or running for his life.
I think there is no sensible reason to think RG3 will be better than Ponder. RG3 hasn’t played a snap in the NFL and he’s never played in a pro-style offense. At least with Luck we know he understands reading a defense and he’s played for a legit NFL head coach.
Not true.
Yes, Ponder played behind a weak O-line. But let’s keep it real. The O-line was not the source of Ponder’s inability to throw a good and consistent deep ball or a decent strike to the sideline. Yes, the O-line let him and Webb down on a number of plays. However, it also provided him ample time in many situations as well. Ponder never adjusted to the NFL game in the sense that he pretty much only looked at one receiver on a given play… and certainly only one spot on the field that might have coincidentally had two receivers there. The final pick 6 against Chicago was a good example. He threw underneath to Gerhart when Aroshomadu was wide open. Even Harvin was open on the play. Both CBs had released both WRs, because defenses came to believe what I came to believe. Ponder won’t burn them deep, in part, because he won’t even look deep… unless it was a play call/decision made pre-snap in which case he was going to throw deep (and inaccurately) regardless of how good the coverage might be.
I don’t think anyone in the NFL would take the bet today that Ponder would be “much better” than RG3 in 3 years.
As an aside, I recall people saying that Blaine Gabbert was a prototypical NFL QB in terms of size and arm strength, but I don’t recall hearing that he was the most NFL ready. He played in a spread offense at Missouri. My personal opinion was that he was too “soft” to play at the NFL level at that position. He avoided contact like the plague.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 20, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Every QB throws INTs
Especially rookie QB’s.
He made mistakes, yeah. I know that.
It was a lost season anyway after McNabb “led” us to a 1-4 start during the easy part of our schedule.
Christian Ponder played against 2 teams with a record under .500 in this season. That’s it. We won both of those games. I understand the Washington game he was not great, but he was hurt. The Carolina game he out-shined Cam Newton and picked up the win. I know Newton put up 290 with 3 TD’s, but Ponder had a better comp % and didn’t throw an INT either. In the 4th quarter when it mattered, Ponder was the better QB.
A few things you seem to not understand:
1. All rookies make mistakes, especially when they are playing behind a terrible O-Line and have poor WR’s.
2. Christian Ponder showed promise this year, regardless of what you say. As evident by his red-zone numbers. http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/136884378.html
(He also had a 16:1 TD:INT ratio his last season at FSU)
3. A rookie season doesn’t always predict how good of a QB you will be in the NFL, as evident by Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Matt Stafford, Randall Cunningham, Donovan McNabb, Dan Fouts, Terry Bradshaw (6 TD, 24 INT, wow!), John Elway, Joe Namath, Phil Simms, Drew Bledsoe, Troy Aikman (9 TD, 18 INT, 0-11 record)…. I could go on, but I won’t. I have seen enough of Christian Ponder to say he’s our QBOTF, just like the team has, as evident here:
http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Notebook_Leslie_Frazier_continues_to_evaluate_assistant_coaches010312
If anything is a shining example that Ponder may be 'it'..
Fran Tarkenton doesn’t hate him. Pretty sure he’s disliked every QB we’ve had since himself.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 20, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
including Favre..
and boy did he suck. So much for Frans QB rating talents.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Fran was not wrong about Favre
He said it was time for him to hang em up. His fluke (though wonderful to us) 2009 season was the beginning of our current catastrophe. Favre could have easily sucked in 2009 as well, but, a slightly younger team, luck and the stars were aligned for the Vikings then. Fran has no vested interest in saying Ponder is good and he doesn’t easily throw out those accolades. Not sure if R4K was being partly serious or not, but the fact still stands that Tarkenton likes this kid for some reason.
kinda hard to say 2009 was a fluke
when your talking about a future hall of famer. Just saying he played well in 2009 when he came to play. He played much worse when he was cajoled into it and didn’t have Rice to throw to.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Well, when 2009 was his "best year ever"
in multiple categories, yeah, it was kind of a fluke. In hindsight, he knew he couldn’t repeat it and even said as much though know one wanted to listen, hence his reluctance to come back in 2010.
well as a person who wasn't excited about him in 2009 and was leary in 2010
I understand why you’re saying what your saying, but to me a fluke is something with a large standard of deviation from the norm. 2009 was a positive bump for Favre but just a bump, if TJ had a year like that well….
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
I think we're just splitting hairs on what "fluke"
means in this scenario. Understand your point and in the end, not a big enough deal to keep going with it. Cheers.
works for me!
BUT WAIT! what do you mean by ‘hairs’?
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
You kind of missed my point about the play.
Interceptions will happen. I’m actually okay with that in the sense that I think rookies learn from those mistakes. I’m more concerned that Ponder never progressed in seeing the field. He continued to look at one and only one option through almost every play of every game. And I’m concerned that he stopped looking down the field for decent yardage throws — the sort that Webb looked for on most plays. I used the example of the interception play because I had access to the full field overhead perspective on that play and it showed two things: 1) Ponder didn’t look for targets down field, despite having the time to do so; and 2) Chicago played a very strange defense in which they essentially released two receivers to noone (as the safeties continued to run down field) presumably on the belief that Ponder wouldn’t even look downfield at those receivers. That’s the sort of stuff that concerns me. I’m also concerned that unlike the rookies you mentioned above that Ponder isn’t gifted with a strong arm. His decision making will presumably improve, but I’m doubtful that he’ll suddenly develop a strong arm. The dude has serious guns on him already. I doubt weight strength is the issue.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 21, 2012 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Do you mean THIS play?

Notice how he doesn’t have any defender within 6 yards of him, and that he doesn’t even look for any other receiver, and that he just immediately goes to his check down guy, and that there is no defender within 6 yards of Gerhart either., the intended receiver. In spite of having all week to take all of the snaps at qb in preparation for the game, and all day to throw the ball, with absolutely zero pressure, a wide open receiver running a 4 yard route….that he stares the receiver down, then proceeds to throw it high and behind him, right nto the arms of the guy who ends up scoring a touchdown on the play, for the WRONG TEAM.
Yep, QBOT…oh Fock.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Oh, but notice the beauuutiful throwing motion, pure poetry.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
Lol jeez, you really don't like Ponder.
I remember him throwing a few more touchdown passes than pick sixes, but hey, I could be wrong.
Yes, that's the play.
I was watching an overhead “coach’s view” angle and was able to see the wide receiver routes to completion. Aromashodu (at the bottom of the screen) was released early (as was Harvin on the other side of the field). Aromashodu was ABSURDLY open. Coverage dropped off Harvin and Aromashodu very early. Even just a glance from Ponder would have picked up 10 yards easy. He doesn’t see the field, in large part, because he doesn’t seem to look. That should not be the case 10 starts into the season.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 21, 2012 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I understand it was a bad throw.
He may have had other people open. I’m not saying that’s not true. It did hit Toby’s hands (it wasn’t a good throw, but it was catchable). I am simply saying that any rookie QB makes this type of mistake. If you go back and look at Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Blaine Gabbert, the other 3 rookies who played significantly, they all would have bonehead plays like this.
I’m not defending Christian for this play or any of his other bonehead plays. I am defending Christian because nobody else here will. I have confidence him him, his skills, his intelligence, and most of all his work ethic. He will learn from these plays. All QB’s make mistakes. Good QB’s use those mistakes and learn. I know he had his ups and downs, but it was his rookie year. If he’s still up and down like this going into next season, I’ll talk other QB’s, but until then Christian Ponder is the guy. That’s how I feel, and I believe that’s how the team feels.
Should say
Going into next offseason, not going into next season.
I wish there was an edit button. haha
Oh, there's plenty of Ponder defenders.
We’ve just sort of quieted down. My archnemisis R4W (should still be R14W, I say), is just very outspoken in his Ponder-criticisms. The arguements/discussions are always cycling, so I’m sure plenty of folk just gave up bothering to try.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 21, 2012 9:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, I defend Ponder.
It’s just pointless to continue stating the same things over and over to Anti-Ponder people. Let everyone have their own beliefs ans just ignore what you don’t agree with. It’s the easiest solution.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 3:12 AM CST up reply actions
Don't call me 'Anti-Ponder"
or I’ll start calling you a “Flamer” ;)
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:13 PM CST up reply actions
lol You need to rewatch that play.
It was hardly ‘right into the arms’ of a guy. It hit Gerhart in the hands and bounced off. That was a tipped int. I wish we could have seen a better view of the field, because it did look like the WR on the right side of the field got past his CB, but there was likely a Safety covering him as well.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 21, 2012 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
Well, yes it went off of Gerhart's fingertips
I could have worded that one better. But the main point is that Ponder had all day to throw to a completely wide open receiver, if Gerhart hadn’t gotten a fingertip on it, the defender would have simply caight it in full stride anyway.
Perhaps I was thinking of THIS play when I wrote that line:

.
And, the reverse angle view…

.
Same story, same outcome, different ballgame.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm confused.
I thought you was semi-Ponder, but you’re starting to look anti-ish to me.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 3:13 AM CST up reply actions
No, I still have the same view as I said before.
I am “semi” as you say. Just like before. He needs to prove himself and not simply be “crowned” And, I have never once said that the Vikings should draft Robert Griffin, I have been in support of drafting a stud left tackle with our first pick. I have only said that Griffin is a solid prospect and is much better than just a “running qb”. This is much to the chagrin of a few typical responders to this issue, as I simply point out the facts without playing into their requisite Ponder rhetoric.
It’s funny how people show up to discredit Griffin and blur the facts about Ponder. What are they so afraid of? Griffin is a much better prospect than Ponder coming out of college, that is just a simple fact. There is no need to try and deny that, it’s not going to suddenly make Ponder’s issues dissapear.
I don’t have a problem with Ponder being named the starter going into the off-season. But, I still think that Ponder should have to prove himself and earn it in an open competition during training camp. If this team continues to coddle him like they seem to be, I’m afraid he won’t improve enough to overcome some of those limitations. I still say that if he can’t handle the pressure of a training camp competition, then he is probably not starting qb material, better to find out early.
His tendency to stare down receivers, get scared in the pocket and flee or just throw it to the check down guy without going through his progressions is obvious, especially when you stick it in front of everyone with an animated gif !!! These are issues to not ignore. I seriously think that the speed of the game in the nfl might be too much for him to handle. I wonder if he is a practice warrior who doesn’t adapt when he is not wearing a red jersey and the defense is allowed to actually make contact (after not having any “contact drills” during the week, thanks cba).
I say give Joe Webb the exact same attention and development opportunities as they are giving to Ponder. I think it will make them both much better players. It’s not like we are wedded to Ponder for a lot of money. He comes pretty cheap, he actually costs about half of what John Sullivan costs (or less). If he struggles again next year, then we will (read “should”) have Webb fully prepared to take over at qb. What’s not to like about that? (except that the Ponder People might spill their milk).
The best part is that we have a chance right now to be building up the entire team, and just develop the two young qb prospects we already have. And then we can go get another qb to plug into the system when the time comes. The team does not have to bank on Ponder as any long term solution, that is the good part about the new cba. He costs less than many back up qbs.
As for Griffin, he is a great prospect. The team should definately take a look, he is considered a top 5 pick..and we have a top 5 pick, duh. So I wonder why there is so much effort to discredit Griffin. It still seems a bit off base to me.
GO KICK SOME ASS, GRIFFIN.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not one of the ones who accused you of saying this.
I have never once said that the Vikings should draft Robert Griffin,
But I never watched a game that RG3 played in so I can’t share my viewpoint towards him. All I can go by is the stats you have brought up and no doubt they are impressive. Better than Ponder’s to. But I think you’re going a bit extreme with the whole RG3 thing. Note: I didn’t say he’s a running QB or sucked. If he’s good enough to win the Heisman, he than that should say alot about him.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
I know, you aren't the guilty party.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:14 PM CST up reply actions
Ha, careful what you wish for!
You should see the other 11 animated gifs…
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
Speaking of which...
that could make for an EXCELLENT fanpost…
“13 Ways To Evaluate Ponder’s Picks”
Awesome, thanks for the inspiration.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
Careful, could open up a can of worms
Plus, its not as if Ponder has only negatives about him.
Part of the reason people are jumping on you so heavily is because you’re just shoving one side of Ponder into everyone’s face. He has strengths too. Its hard to remember that when reading some of your posts.
We all already know about his struggles.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
Yea, okay Murgo. That settles it.
Now I think I’ll add a poll at the bottom.
List your favorite 6 Ponder interceptions…
I think I’ll call it “Ponder’s Pick Six” ;).
If you want an alternative viewpoint, you can always just read whatever Mak07 spits out whenever anyone mentions another qb not named Ponder.
Also, I have mentioned his ability to throw the quick slant, the shovel pass, his presense outside the pocket, and most importantly, his propensity to just take off and run.
Get yer 3D glasses ready !!!
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 23, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Neither safety covered the receivers.
That was what was so odd about the play. The safeties took off straight down the field into coverage – one on each side of the hash marks. The receivers were released by the CBs who appeared to play zone against a short throw (Ponder’s comfort pass) while the safeties played it safe by continuing to run deep. The receivers were essentially uncovered (particularly Aromashodu).
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 22, 2012 8:02 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm confused.
I thought you was semi-Ponder, but you’re starting to look anti-ish to me.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 3:12 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry freaking reply fail.
Was meant for R4Webb
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 3:13 AM CST up reply actions
I replied above. I have the same position as before.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
To say
Ponder never adjusted to the NFL game in the sense that he pretty much only looked at one receiver on a given play… and certainly only one spot on the field that might have coincidentally had two receivers there.
And be talking about a rookie quarterback who was thrown into NFL action halfway through the season, isn’t the best point to make about that person not becoming a good football player. If this were his 4th or 5th year, I would give you that one. But not his rookie year.
Every young quarterback has done that. If he continues making the same mistakes over and over again, then I’ll throw him under the bus.
And Ponder has shown flashes of being accurate deep (40 yard strike to the back of the endzone to Harvin, anyone?). He obviously has things to work on, but let’s let him work on them, maybe? Get him a deep threat so he can actually try and work on that. He hasn’t proven that he’s incapable of improving on his faults just yet.
And I suppose the alternative is...
…if he’s a first year QB then he shouldn’t be evaluated. The truth is that college players are evaluated on their ability to stretch the field and make the NFL throw to the sidelines. If they can’t do it, they are considered less desireable than those who can make those throws. Ponder’s not getting any criticism that a college player wouldn’t get for the same limitations to their game.
Every young quarterback has done that. If he continues making the same mistakes over and over again, then I’ll throw him under the bus.
Yes, every young quarterback misses opportunities. Even the veterans do. What concerns me about Ponder is that he almost never seems to look for alternative options. He seems to get really focused on the short throws to the point that even the announcers in the Chicago game commented that if you rely on the short throws so much you’ll attract a lot of defenders in the vicinity which is when tipped balls become interceptions (Goose said this after the pick 6 play).
Ponder needs to be able to stretch the field from time to time to keep the defenses honest. The purpose of mentioning the pick 6 play was to illustrate a case in which a defense stopped playing honest defense. It was a crazy coverage scheme that showed no respect for Ponder’s ability to see the field. My point isn’t the interception itself, my poit was the coverage, the pass protection and Ponder’s lack of vision.
The throw to Harvin has been discussed previously. It was not a 40 yard “strike.” It was a throw to a player who ran to the end zone uncovered. A linebacker came in at the last moment but didn’t turn to the ball. The ball was thrown to the side the LB approached from. Had he turned his head and put up his hands, he would have had himself an interception. Plays like this happen all the time, so it is not a knock on Ponder. It was a decent play for a very good result. However, it is not a good example of Ponder’s ability to throw an accurate deep ball. I vaguely recall Ponder commenting on that pass and mentioning it wasn’t a great throw. Still, it got the job done which is always a good thing.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 22, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
actually staring down receivers was one of the knocks against him coming out of college.
Hopefully they are working on this problem as we speak.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
You wanted Ponder or Mallett before the last draft. I do give you props for defending the player you liked though. I like that.
But the simple fact is that Spielman is talking about it too. Now maybe he is bluffing which would be good in order to make other teams believe the Vikings could take RG3. That way they trade up with the Rams and the Vikings get Kalil.
I respect your opinion about the talk being silly.
I think it is warranted and should be discussed as much as people like up until before the draft. Same with Trent Richardson. I am leaning towards taking Richardson if the Rams take Kalil and the Vikings cannot trade down. I am not convinced at all that AP can come back and be the same player he was before. Plus he never really has been a third down back at all. Richardson looks to be the kind of back that can pick up the blitz and catch the ball very well out of the backfield. I doubt they do it but discussing it is OK with me. No harm there.
If they really think AD is out then Richardson if fine
but two major backs would be putting to much money into a position I don’t think is as relevant in the NFL now as it doesn’t help the passing game as well as other positions do. Sooner or later we’re going to have to realize that passing isn’t the future it’s the now.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
If we had more of a power-blocking O-line
then I think going with two amazing RBs would work out, especially with defenses setting themselves up more to play against the pass and our crappy WR situation. Run-heavy did work for Denver.
Problem is, we don’t have an O-line like they do.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
Well perdominantly you see passing teams work their way into the play offs
With a couple teams with strong defenses boot strap their way in. Not saying it can’t be done, but I’m also not saying you can build a ladder to the moon with bendy straws. I just think it would be much easier to take a rocket ship :D
I think I lost myself there.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Yes, the way the rules are set up
Passing teams enjoy better success. In fact, a strong passing game can help to cover up terrible defenses, since if you can pracitcally score at will, it won’t matter if you give up alot of points. Case in point, 15-1 Packers.
But that’s not to say thinking outside the box won’t help. Sometimes strong running games can give even the best defense issues, and it certainly helps to take the game out of an opposing offenses hands in the sense that they won’t be on the field quite so much. It requires consistent, sustained drives though.
That’s part of the reason the record-setting Pats lost to the Giants in ’08, the Giants running game kept Brady off the field.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
Oh I understand that
and a good running game is important. I just wish the Vikes would get past this we’re a running team bit and join the current NFL.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
by Grime on Feb 23, 2012 7:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Or get to the 2009 form
and be balanced in both passing and running. At one point in time of that season, we where 10th passing and 10th running. That’s a pretty Bad Ass thing to accomplish if you ask me.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 23, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
that works for me as well
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Mark07 says: "In 3 years, Ponder will be a much better QB than RG3… "
That is pretty funny. Uh, based on what…the color of his skin? For all you know, in 3 years, Ponder could be out of the league, and Griffin could be headed to the Pro Bowl…that is IF his team is not playing in the Super Bowl. Ponder is a total question mark who demonstrated the very flaws listed in his scouting report. I say Ponder’s upside is Colt McCoy or Mark Sanchez. Griffin did pretty well playing in a big boy conference, and he didn’t need to redshirt or play back up in college. Oh, and his accomplishments dwarf anything Ponder was able to muster in the super scary ACC. Time will tell how successful Griffin will be in the NFL, but his upside is much higher than Ponder’s was coming out of college. At least Griffin can throw a deep ball, and throw it with accuracy. And now Ponder has to prove that his dwindling performance as the year went on was…..well, he went out with wimper.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
So there's a chance that Ponder is out of the league?
But it’s no question that RG3 will be a pro-bowler or in the Super Bowl?
You’re just bitter Joe Webb will never be the full time starting QB for this team.
You can say what you want to about Christian Ponder, and it really doesn’t bother me. All that matters is what Rick Spielman thinks. He’s in the same boat as me. We’ll sink or swim with Christian Ponder.
If you’re so sold on RG3, go cheer for Cleveland or Washington, because they’ll probably end up with him.
I have not once brought up race, but you always thing that’s my motive behind disliking black QBs. It’s not. I don’t like “athletic” QBs. I love Tebow for the person he is, but I really don’t know if he’ll ever be a good to great NFL QB. I don’t look at skin color. I look at style of play.
I have never once brought up race, though, and you keep bringing that up. I could, you know, bring up the fact that EVERY QB in the playoffs this year was white. But I really don’t think that matters. I don’t know why it has to be a race issue. But according to you, I guess it is.
The basic facts about this season’s playoffs:
Alex Smith
Joe Flacco
Tom Brady
Eli Manning
The last 4 QBs standing. Their 2012 season totals in rushing yards:
Flacco- 88 yards.
Brady- 109 yards.
Smith- 179 yards.
Manning- 15 yards.
4 QB’s. They were the last 4 standing, no doubt.
They combined to average under 100 yards rushing, for the season, sitting at 97.75, or about 6.1 yards per week (during a 16 game season (all of them played all 16 games))
RUNNING QUARTERBACKS DON’T WIN.
It has nothing to do with skin color. It has everything to do with playing style.
I really don’t care what you think. I know how I feel about the situation, and lucky for me, I share the same opinion as our GM. So I’m happy.
by mak07 on Feb 21, 2012 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
All 4 of those qbs can actually stand in the pocket without panicking.
And all 4 of those qbs can throw the ball downfield. Ponder is lost in the pocket, and doesn’t have the arm strength of the qbs you listed.
I noticed that Cam Newton was rookie of the year, and he even went to the Pro Bowl this year, too. Imagine that. BTW, It’s Black History Month, YEAH!!!
Don’t keep trying to mischaracterize other people’s comments, it’s dumb.
But it’s no question that RG3 will be a pro-bowler or in the Super Bowl?Uh, here is what I actually said…
For all you know, in 3 years, Ponder could be out of the league, and Griffin could be headed to the Pro Bowl…that is IF his team is not playing in the Super Bowl….Time will tell how successful Griffin will be in the NFL, but his upside is much higher than Ponder’s was coming out of college. At least Griffin can throw a deep ball, and throw it with accuracy.See, there is a big difference. I guess we are all just supposed to accept your irrational proclamations of Ponder that avoid the facts, and somehow believe that we should disregard every single scouting report on Griffin and just assume he won’t anount to much because he is
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 7:43 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
here's another fun fact...
In 2010, Ponder’s 5th year of college football, Griffin had more completions (304) than Ponder had attempts (299). I think it is hilarious that you two clowns keep trying to call Griffin a running qb, because his passing stats completely obliterate anything Ponder could muster in 5 years of college football.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 7:56 PM CST up reply actions
Yep, the guy can pass the ball. Deal with it.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I just want to point out..
That all those QBs are also not in their first year in the league.. And, uh.. Alex Smith looked far worse than Ponder for the last several years, up until this past season. Sometimes, patience does pay off.
Does Ponder have the tools of RGIII? No way in hell. Could he end up being better? Its possible. Only way we’ll know is by letting him play.
I will say that all the physical tools in the world don’t exactly translate to success. You can, I believe, favorably compare RG3 to Mike Vick in terms of what he brings to the table with arm strength/elusiveness, but Vick didn’t exactly light up the stats this year. He certainly wasn’t in the pro bowl.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 21, 2012 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Cam Newton threw for 4000 yards as a rookie and
went to the Pro Bowl. When is the last time that ever happened?
No use throwing Robert Griffin under the bus before he has even had a chance to play in the NFL yet. And for the record, the Vick comparison is a really bad one. His college passing stats were miniscule and underwhelming, they aren’t worthy of comparison to Griffin’s. He literally ran the ball more times than he passed it. But also for the record, Vick has been to 4 Pro Bowls in his career, and he is a punk.
Griffin, on the other hand, outpassed Andrew Luck and went miles past anything Ponder did in college as a passer, and he is a top notch individual, not a thug or prima donna. I can’t phathom why people are trying to discredit him, it is very suspect.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 12:01 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Oh, its never happened
Which doesn’t mean it will with RGIII. Newton fell into a near perfect situation. A team with a decent-to-good O-line, a pro-bowl WR, and two good RBs in DeAngelo Williams/Jon Stewart. The Panthers could use some more players in the passing game for him, and the defense needs to catch up to the offense, but it isn’t as though the Panthers had nothing going for them.
I’m not going to say you put any other rookie QB on the Panthers and they’ll have a Newton-esque season, but just because Newton did it doesn’t mean RGIII is going to come out and do the same thing.
And I’m not looking at college stats for the NFL. That’s pretty pointless. Its all you have to work with on rookies, obviously, but I could care less about what Vick did in college compared to what he’s done in the big-league, where RG3 will be playing. Their styles of play are going to be similar.
Throwing in the college game and throwing in the NFL are two completely different things.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
I just think your Vick comparison is not a good one.
He has a lot more passing experience and skill at this point.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know how you can say
a person who hasn’t played a single down in the NFL has more passing experience/skill than Vick.
Besides, Vick has turned into what Griffin will hope to be. That elusive, speedy QB who can throw from the pocket, but break out when he has to.
Obviously he relied more heavily on simply his legs early in his career (I’m sure Griffin will as well), but he’s started to evolve his game in Philly. We’ve been getting glimpses of what he could have been since he came into the league.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
I just think your Vick comparison is not a good one.
He has a lot more passing experience and skill at this point…meaning coming out of college. He is in a completely different universe coming out of college than Vick was. I can’t understand why people so quickly jump to the comparison to Vick. It seems a little bit like a conditioned response, like a stereo type.
Griffin just doesn’t “fit the profile”.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 23, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
Hardly.
They’re both sort of undersized QBs with a big arm who are quick on their feet. He’s definitely more like Vick than he is Cam Newton.
Its got nothing to do with ‘stereotyping.’
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 23, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Cam Newton? wow, stop stereotyping.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 26, 2012 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
Griffin threw for over 10,000 yards
total in college, and over 4.000 last year alone, while Vick didn’t even throw for 3300 yards total in college.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 26, 2012 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
Sounds to me you think RG3 is the best QB
ever coming out of a draft.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
silly that's luck
He’s going to beat Montana’s records in his rookie year, and pee ambrosia…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
but RG3 is even better than Luck!!!11
He won teh HIESMAN!!!!!!!
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder did he think
Jamarcus Russell was going to succeed as well.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
That was an Al Davis pick...
say no more.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions
Hmm, he's R4Webb
is sounding so much Like Danny Llyod now. At first, I defended him a bit, but I can’t anymore. He’s either Danny or R4F.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
lol
I don’t think he’s Danny. And he doesn’t use enough caps for R4F…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
idk
Danny did love “athletic” QBs as well. But you’re right about R4F.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 23, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
I miss R4F
If only his cuddy buddy hadn’t retired, we might be able to see more of his senseless bromance with Favre.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 23, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
UnBanned said:
Sounds to me you think RG3 is the best QB ever coming out of a draft.
No, that would be Andrew Luck (que cherubs singing).
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
Only way we’ll know is by letting him play.
You mean the only way to find out if Griffin is any good is to let him play. The clowns lubricating the Ponder Brass Pole are trying to proclaim Griffin is nothing but a running qb who won’t be anything in the nfl.
Ponder has had his chance. He has shown us what he is about…just ask Mak07, he only needed 2 games of spot duty by Joe Webb to declare that he was a bust. We have given Ponder every chance he could ever hope for, and yet he wants to give him a few more years. Why the double standard? Fight The Power.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
you really take yourself serious don't you?
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
... I don't even fathom how you can say Ponder
has had his chance. 10 games is his chance? With no off-season? He doesn’t even get a whole season of games to show his stuff?
Get off it.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't try to use logic with him
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Didn't think you would
It’s not really your strong suit.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 22, 2012 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Is that brunette in your pic
totally checking the blondes cleavage out or what?! Sorry to break up the insults.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Yes.
The brunette is Sophia Loren.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
I bet she's thinking
I want to wear those like a hat…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
by Grime on Feb 24, 2012 8:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Bullseye
You’re just bitter Joe Webb will never be the full time starting QB for this team.
Yep. Apparently he has trouble reading defenses too according to Pelissero and others in the know.
If you’re so sold on RG3, go cheer for Cleveland or Washington, because they’ll probably end up with him.
Yep. That’ll be a glorious day! Lol
RUNNING QUARTERBACKS DON’T WIN.
Pretty much, with the only minor exception being Steve Young who could run but never used it as an equal part of his game.
This has nothing to do with Webb.
Nice try to deflect attention away from the facts about Ponder though.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
Save it
Coming from a guy who goes by “revenge4 webb” and has had nothing good to say about Ponder from the start, your whining is bordering on pathological.
And there is no deflection, as neither of us have said Ponder is a sure thing, but you seem a bit too caught up in the Ponder bashing.
by Murgo on Feb 21, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Why even bring up Webb?
Aren’t you supposed to be bashing Title IX and civil rights or something?
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 8:20 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Right...are you trying to play cop again?
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 8:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
you are the poster child of bitching about others "keeping you down" but then do the same thing
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
by TroyW18 on Feb 22, 2012 7:35 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Again...
Bringing up race. It’s the same thing over and over. “Race”… “Ponder’s bad”…. “Webb’s amazing”… “You don’t like Webb cause he’s black!”… “You don’t like RG3 because he’s black!”
by mak07 on Feb 21, 2012 8:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Um, I didn't say those things.
Besides, Griffin has had HUGE success passing the ball, yet you want to simply label him a running qb and deny the facts here. Same stuff. There is no reason to mischaracterize my comments and try to invent things that I didn’t say. I haven’t said anything about Webb, YOU DID! silly boy. Why do you hate on qbs like Webb, Griffin and Cam Newton? I just don’t get it. I think the team that ends up with Griffin is going to get a real deal qb prospect, and not a reach pick. To right him off with the severity that you do is troubling.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
*right = write...oops.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 21, 2012 9:14 PM CST up reply actions
He's going to make a new screen name.
“REVENGE4GRIFFIN,” if you keep this up.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
No, I'm going to make "Murgo the Facist" ;)
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 12:18 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Oops...*Fascist (would be the correct spelling).
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
that will go well with all of his other monikers
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
just like before it's the same 2-3 people that go around rec'ing eaching other :)
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
by TroyW18 on Feb 22, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Well, Troy...
Put some effort and insight into a comment, and you’ll improve your chances of getting a rec. The challenge I have found with a significant contingent of the Ponder acolytes is that they tend to replace insight, fact and evidence with passionate opinion. I’m not swayed by that.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 22, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So we're wrong
for backing our QB? No, no. That can’t be right. How dare we?
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
Back anyone you like
…but please don’t be shy about adding some depth to your point of view.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 22, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm sure we could all re-hash the same points over and over like you do.
Apparently you Webb/Griffin knob slobbers love to read the same posts over and over again while hi-fiving yourself for all of your “depth”
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
I haven't said that Ponder should be
the only QB to get a fighting chance to start, and even insisted it be a fair battle between him and Webb in another post, but IMO RG3 is not the way to go. We have way too many other needs. Yes, we should consider it being that we have so many holes, but that’s the end of it after the consideration. I won’t stand someone bashing Ponder nor Webb. I say only time will tell.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Who said anything about picking Griffin?
I just don’t see the reason people can discredit him when he has been so successful and is such a great prospect.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
Who said anything about picking Griffin?
Um, kcskol has numerous times.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
Well it wasn't me.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
Well if I replied to you my mistake.
Everything’s crammed up now.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 6:11 PM CST up reply actions
Have you seen ole Webby's comments?
And you box us all in as “passionate opinion”? It has been said many, many, many times by Ponder backers that we want to give the kid a fighting chance. Certainly no here is an acolyte. Myabe RG3 acolytes but not Ponder. No one has ever had a “passionate opinion” except when it comes to a “not again” reaction to another anyone but Ponder tirade. I don’t think anyone has said Ponder is a can’t miss QB but he deserves more than a partial season before we declare him a bust, like Webby. I can’t believe he would even have the nerve to seriously put that out there.
Seems the anti-Ponder people get a little emotional when everyone isn’t jumping on their bandwagon, from where I stand.
by Murgo on Feb 22, 2012 4:34 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
In April it pretty much sounded like "can't miss" to me.
I recall it going something like this:
1. Ponder gets drafted.
2. Ponder gets labelled QBotF.
3. Subset of the same crowd says, “Webb is not a NFL-quality QB. Defense won the game in Philly in 2010, and he sucked against the Lions. He’d prefer to run rather than throw. He’s inaccurate. He should be a WR.”
The benefit of hindsight shows that Ponder struggled and that when Webb was on the field this year he was never outscored by the opposition.
Now the Vikings have a #3 pick which is something they may never get again. Instead of giving RG3 his due, a small group of Ponderites think they should do the same to RG3 that they did to Webb. RG3 can play. He has been amazing in college. NFL teams are rightfully excited about his potential.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
What you don't seem to understand
is that the Vikings have so many holes to fill, why would they throw another pick at a QB when they already have two that have potential? In your obsession of Griffin, you seem to overlook the fact that the Vikings do not have a need for him and he does not fit the current offensive scheme the Vikings have. Everyone has given RG3 his due but you and R4W seem to sit in the corner with your hands over their ears only hearing what you want to.
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
I'm sympathetic to the "too many holes to fill" argument.
In fact, as I have said many times, Kalil is my first choice for this draft. That sort of suggests that it is you who is putting his hands over his ears. Furthermore, I recall R4W disagreeing with me about the Vikings selecting RG3. I’ll let him speak for himself, but I gathered his view was that he’d rather get other needs filled than pick up RG3. So much for the “obsession of Griffin” you’d like to believe exists. RG3 had an amazing college career. That has a lot to do with why I like him, defend him and think he’d be an asset for the Vikings.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
by kcskol on Feb 22, 2012 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair points
However, number 1-3 above was the excitement of drafting a QB, who had potential and not a wily old vet. I hope people can understand that, especially coming from long suffering Viking fans.
Ponder struggled later in the season, probably due to injury and getting shellacked game after game. I, personally, think he can overcome it and do better as has been his history, but we’ll see.
I think what the “anti-RG3” people, specifically me, are saying is that he is not a known commodity and despite his success in college, he can be a bust. Despite just how wonderful he may appear to be. It happens all too frequently. As well, Ponder is on a learning curve and I don’t think anyone flushes down a guy without knowing he isn’t going to cut it. and we don’t know that with Ponder.
I think that's the point everyone is trying to make
hence the comment that these two only hear what they want to hear. All they see is people bashing Griffin or being “racist”.
Billick: "What did McNabb do to deserve being benched?"
Answer: He upset PETA by killing every worm he came across on a football field.
Murgo response:
(getting hard to tell what’s a reply to what with this many replies, hence the title)
No disagreement with anything you said except that I would take different approach on the last point. Teams are constantly trying to upgrade talent. It isn’t because the “bird in hand” is bad. It’s just because the team believes the alternative is better. RG3 is not guaranteed to be successful. There are no guarantees to be sure. However, the indicators are that he has decent potential to be elite in a way that Ponder is unlikely to be. There are questions about RG3’s height that will get answered at the combine, but his body of work is pretty amazing.
If the Vikings get Kalil and let Ponder and Webb duke it out in pre-season, I’ll be happy. However, if the Vikings miss out on Kalil and go with RG3, I’ll be pretty excited too.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
kcskol
In the end, I’ll support the team, even if they pick RG3. That’s the beauty of this, the hope and excitement before the knife through the heart! :)
Seriously, I’m excited about this year’s FA and draft. I hope we get a good foundation going with some solid prospects.
Lol No way
It was never a ’can’t miss’ with Ponder. Ever. Even when he had that success initially, the majority of posters were waiting for him to hit the rookie wall before casting judgement.
In fact, in April, when the pick was made, I would say the majority of people were not pleased with it. I know that I certainly wasn’t. Alot of folk felt it was a reach, though obviously a calculated one.
And I would still say those criticisms of Webb were accurate. He made a big 3rd down conversion to Harvin in the Philly game and some other completions, but it was the defense doing a phenomal job on the Eagles’ O-line that really sealed the win.
You can’t sit there and bash ‘Ponder-ites’ for not bringing up facts in their discussions when you choose to ignore the counter-facts they bring up against Webb. Yeah, Webb struggled his rookie season. Same as Ponder.
He was better in his second season. We will have to see if Ponder will also improve.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
Another fact...
Ponder was coddled and handed the starting qb job on a silver platter and takes all the qb snaps in practice. Not to mention being labeled the great QBOTF and having 10 starts with lots of preparation.
Meanwhile, Webb ran the scout team and came in relief in a pinch without the benefits that Ponder was given. And he has won more games than Ponder has, even thought he has never been made anything more than a backup qb that lines up at wide out in practice (just to fill in a few blank spots).
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 23, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Your characterization is incorrect.
Webb more than held his own against the Eagles last year. If your comment was a counter-fact, we have a different view of what constitutes a fact.
"Men are creatures with two legs and eight hands. - Jayne Mansfield
he kicked ass.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 26, 2012 9:49 PM CST up reply actions
I'll rec that for showing what I've tried to say so many dang times.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Toby Gerhart. has a brother
that would look great in Purple. Just imagine the possibilities. a blocker blocking for his brother? now that is motivation
We agree on this point.
Perhaps for different reasons, I don’t claim to know your intentions, but we still agree.
hmmm
Cant believe what people read into…The guy said they would be doing due diligence. thats not even close to a said commitment of if such and such happens we’re taking the guy. This is spin, its what a guy in spilemans position and the situation the Vikes are in is going to say. It sais “we’re going to be opened minded.” sounds better than, "We dont care what happens come draft day we know what we want and we are sticking to it, we wont be waisting any time on what if scenarioes. We will be coming in unprepaired.
What he did say is football buisness it generates intrest, something the vikes need to do and maintain in a rebuild mode and with the stadium yack and hack.
@}-----You've been Touched-----{@
BPA
Its worked well in the past (AP) and filling holes (Ponder) leads to uncertainty. If RG3 is there you take him imo. Takes a real man to admit mistakes, not exactly saying ponder is a bust, but he didn’t blow anyone away.
by redhearring on Feb 22, 2012 1:25 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Most rooks don't.
I kind of dislike that Newton, Ryan, Sanchez, etc have come out of the early first round and had decent success so early. It sets everyone’s expectations up that a QB has to be able to produce immediately or he’s ‘no good’ and teams should move on to the next flashy QB.
I’m not saying we should stick with him for 5 years blindly (looking at you, Tavaris), but we should definitely give the kid more than just 10 games on a lost season with one of the worst teams I’ve seen in a while before we start to think it was a mistake drafting him and move onto the next guy. That’s just me, though.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 22, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
By that logic
We should take Trent Richardson, not RG3.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 22, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
Yes they should very seriously consider Trent
AP is not guaranteed to come back 100% and they have an out after next year on his contract. If he does not look good enough they have to consider letting him go. If they did that then they would only have Toby who also had a meniscus issue at the end of the year.
Trent Richardson would be a fabulous pick IMHO. He gives the Vikings plenty of options at running back going forward.
I just want the BPA on their board. If it is RG3 then so be it. If it is Quintin Coples then so be it.
I am opposed to reaching for “needs”. If the BPA is Morris Claiborne or Justin Blackmon then I am OK with that too.
The Vikings have more picks to add pieces to the team starting at pick #35 which is not a bad spot to make a pick at all. Neither is #67.
Basically, I am all for taking the BPA in the first round and after that they can draft for needs.
I believe in looking at both BPA and needs.
If there is a large discrepancy between BPA and needs, a team drafts BPA. But if the BPA pick is only incrementally greater, than a team needs to fill the need. A team can’t continually stockpile picks at the same position, and completely ignore obvious needs.
And if "AP" is still or close to the old AP
that backfield would be, dare I say historically scary. AP, Toby, and Trent! Oh my.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 23, 2012 7:26 PM CST up reply actions
And oh, that would lessen the load on all of them.
Rule #76: No excuses-play like a champion.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 23, 2012 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
It also creates trade opportunities
When you start looking at money and then what you want to do in free agency, well then you can have some opportunities to not only free up money but gain more high draft picks.
And no it does not have to be AP but he is the most likely candidate with that huge contract.
While we're the on the subject of QB's...
There is an interesting write up on Joe Webb, over at Grant’s Tomb.
So THAT'S what is buried at Grant's Tomb, I'll have to "dig" that up.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 22, 2012 6:20 PM CST up reply actions
I believe, in order to be successfull in the nfl you have to continually upgrade your offensive and defensive lines! RG3 would be tempting here, but even he would tell you that your o-line is key to any QB’s success. The Viking’s are in a position to do that. Taking offensive tackle, Matt Kalil is a great start to the success of the Viking’s offense and protecting our QB !!

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