What luck... A potential FA LT that is actually good...
by Bjorno on Feb 8, 2012 1:43 PM CST
Email
Print
Per PFT, the Chargers are looking to waive the oft-injured Marcus McNeill prior to paying him a $10.5million salary for the upcoming year. Normally I would be loathe to sign an injury risk such as this one, but his character and his previous performance really makes it worth taking a risk.
He has had some back and neck injuries the past 2 years, limiting him to 20 games over that span. But when healthy, he is a pro-bowl LT without the problems we saw with our last pro-bowl LT. Considering he only missed 2 games in his previous 4 years, I don't see that as much of an injury history.
The main thing I would be concerned about is the fact that he has neck and back injuries, but our medical staff would obviously help weigh the risk vs the reward.
Now, the only other question would be... If we do sign McNeill, do we still sign Kalil?
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
113 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Nice pull
I didn’t hear about this but if the Vikes could upgrade and hold thier LT spot without using a draft choice Clairborne becomes much more reasonable plus trading down. Opens up a lot of avenues that weren’t open before. Hope they at least poke at Mcneill a little with a stick.
McNeil - Kalil
Potato – Patato
I’d be happy with either one!
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Wait a minute
I thought potato is spelled the same in both instances? Either way i agree. Tomato tomato.
by IL PurpleRain on Feb 8, 2012 5:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If we got McNiell
I’d still draft Kalil.
by Coolio12 on Feb 8, 2012 9:53 PM CST via mobile reply actions
How old is McNeil I wonder
I would still rather have Kalil just because neck and back injuries are not something to take lightly. If we did take McNeil we could trade back and pick up DeCastro which would hook us up at LG. Then stick Johnson at RG…
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
McNeill is 27...
Giving him a good 5 years of solid production left assuming he remains healthy. I think it all depends on the price. I think if the Vikes don’t pick up McNeill or Nicks in FA, it is a safe bet that we do not trade down.
I would rather have Kalil as well, but this gives us another option to fill a huge need. Here is to hoping he heals quickly.
McNeil is 28
and will be 29 in mid november
6' 3", 209 lbs, long blond hair, moustache and beard.
As a Viking ought to be ;-)
I'm always correct ;-)
(except most wife-related stuff)
6' 3", 209 lbs, long blond hair, moustache and beard.
As a Viking ought to be ;-)
Yeah then I would rather have Kalil or Reif/Martin
28 with neck/back issues it pretty sketchy to me, but if we could get him cheap it would help ease the sketchiness.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Jared Gaither is 28, and had back issues
I’m pretty sure the Chargers are loving him right now.
Yeah, its a risk, but when you have Charlie Johnson as your starting LT.. you have to take it.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 10, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
nobody knows that, he could still suck again next year.
he had 5 games in san diego, but he has had an awful 2 years, and he got cut by kansas city and baltimore for a reason.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Actually he did not have two horrible years
he got hurt in baltimore and he asked to be released from KC because they already had their starting line.
well, if i'm kicking tires, that equates to 2+ bad years.
he is injury prone and apparently had some issues picking up offensive schemes. baltimore didn’t want to extend his contract after the 2009 season due to their uncertainty about him, then he was injured all of 2010 with a different injury and was let go. then kc signed him for almost nothing and he couldn’t crack the starting lineup, so they released him. where is the part that i am supposed to get excited about?
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
No. Baltimore let him go beacuse they wanted Oher at LT
and Gaither did not want to be shifted over to RT.
And funny enough Mckinnie replaced Oher at LT moving Oher back to RT.
If we sign Gaither as our LT the circle of life will be complete : )
by CanadianViking on Feb 11, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
that's not it. gaither was an unreliable guy with injury and work ethic issues.
the ravens only signed him to a rfa tender in 2010 due to his unreliability, then he showed up to ota’s out of shape and with new injuries. that is when the ravens officially moved oher over to the left side. some reports had the move pegged as a motivational tool to get his butt in gear. but he then apparently got another back injury in camp and he didn’t play in 2010 due to injury. then he was made an ufa in 2011 with the cba, and the ravens didn’t even pursue him.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
I'm fairly certain Gaither was seen as a steal for the Ravens.
Until he got hurt. He was let go because of injury concerns, but I never heard/read anything about his work ethic being a red flag. And given that both the Chiefs and Chargers pursued him after he was released by a previous team, I think its a pretty good indication he was/is a good O-line prospect when he’s healthy.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Gaither was a 5th round supplemental draft pick...
Because he was too stupid to go to class or get his tutor to take tests for him. so, he was declared academically ineligible and thus entered the supp draft. His own college coach went public to complain about his work ethic. and then he had similar issues in baltimore regarding his motivation and work ethic. Iit only takes a little web search and some patience….
As for his injury history, he is now damaged goods.In addition to his neck, he has a problem with his foot that instigated a degenerative condition in his back. That is why he lost all that weight and didn’t allow the team to examine him in the off season prior to the 2010 season.
He sat out the whole year because of injury, and was released. Kansas City picked him up for chump change to compete for a starting job at tackle, but he couldn’t crack the line up and was released because he stunk, and they wanted to give a practice squad guy a try.
San Diego lost 2 of their starting o-linemen mid season of 2011, that is why they took a flier on gaither for the remainder of the season….because they were in a desperate situation.
We covered this last week in another fanpost…
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 12, 2012 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You read Walter footballs redone 2007 draft?
I think it’s in the fan shot’s so probably not. However based on his play they have him a first rounder now. Not to shabby. Injury wise yeah it’s risky for sure. But if he we can get him cheap and he pans out to be what he was he’d be a killer deal.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Isn't it ironic
here is another player that the Vikings should have drafted back in 2006. Instead they selected Cedric Griffin first and then San Diego grabbed McNeill. The Vikings then compounded the situation by reaching mightily for Ryan Cook.
That draft should have been Greenway, McNeil, and then Richard Marshall CB with the first three picks.
Then in 2008 they used the 2nd and 4th round picks to move up the get Tyrell Johnson. They then used a 5th round pick (#15) and a 7th round pick (#207) to trade up with Green Bay to select John David Booty. Even after all that poor handling of a draft they still could have selected Carl Nicks at #152 who many people wanted because Herrera was just average and they needed a backup guard to groom in case Hutchinson or Herrera got hurt.
Through smart drafting the Vikings could have had McNeill and Nicks already on the roster.
Now we want to sign McNeill. We could have signed Gaither last year when he was released by the Raiders and then by the Chiefs. San Diego wants to try and keep Gaither now.
I am not sure why the front office would not have at least brought Gaither in to check him out. What could it of hurt?
I was hoping to sign Gaither but if McNeill is healthy then obviously he would be a good pickup now.
Honestly I don't know that it would have helped to pick those people up
Honestly I think our coaching for positions was just poor during that time. You really didn’t see anyone step up from the ranks on offense that wasn’t already a gifted athlete.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Not sure or not
but I think our Rbs production have taken a hit after Tony Richardson left. Any FB in the draft worth getting?
Minnesota Vikings & Chicago Bulls Fan First, American Second.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 9, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
The two go together.
Though I though Kleinsasser did well. Birk was a huge blow, but Klink had to have his ego stroked.
by Shawn Gillogly on Feb 9, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
And after Ryan Cook was replaced by Loadholt at RT
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
It could be argued
And there are stats to support it.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Show them...
Cause I seem to remember PFF lauding Loadholt as one of the top-5 run blockers in the league.
PFF's credibility has come in to question as of late
I am by no means attributing the successes entirely to Cook, nor am I passing all the blame to Loadholt. But based on numbers that I have gathered, the Vikings were a better rushing offense with Cook in the lineup.
Here are some rushing stats from the Cook and Loadholt years:
2007: Cook
Attempts 494 (6th)
Yards 2,634 (1st)
TDs 22 (1st)
Y/A 5.3 (1st)
1st downs 131 (1st)
2008 Loadholt
Att 519 (3rd)
Yards 2332 (5th)
TDs 15 (14th)
Y/A 4.5
1st downs 119 (5th)
2009 Loadholt
Att 467 (9th)
yards 1918 (13th)
TDs 19 (9th)
Y/A 4.1 (20th)
1st downs 99 (15th)
2010 Loadholt
Att 441 (12th)
yards 1942
TDs 16 (7th)
Y/A 4.4 (8th)
1st downs 104 (11th)
2011 Loadholt
Att 448 (13th)
yards 2,318 (4th)
TDs 18 (4th)
Y/A 5.2 (2nd)
1st downs 118 (5th)
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
this doesn't mean much at all.
you need to break down the rushing to the right side, and factor in chester taylor and the fact that adrian peterson was a rookie that nobody really had tape on yet. also, you only have one year of cook, compared to 4 years of loadholt, and that one year was when mckinnie and hutch were not yet in decline.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
On the surface, perhaps you are right
There are many things that could be considered. Injury, QB play, play calling, field position, playing with a lead vs playing from behind, etc. I am not as worried about Peterson’s rookie year as you seem to be. Teams may not have had tape on Peterson before the first preseason game, but after that they did. I thought about McKinnie and Hutch as well, but the stats for 2011 show that the team can run effectively without McKinnie as 2011 was a good year for running the ball.
I do not think counting the rushing attempts to right is as significant as it might seem, given that the Vikings have largely employed a zone rushing attack. Plays that are designed to go right are often cut back to the left and vice versa, especially by Peterson.
Unfortunately, all we have is two years of Cook. Spielman obviously was not happy with Cook so he drafted Loadholt in 2009.
But I think that Cook and Birk were a big part of the #1 rushing attack. Now that Sully has improved, it looks like things might be improving.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
i actually think cook is pretty versatile, just not a total mauler.
here are some interesting links that might apply. they break down the o-line stats as a unit more thoroughly for rushing including left end – left tackle – middle – right tackle – right guard. they also let you look into past seasons. just for fun and all….
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2007
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2008
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2009
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2010
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2011
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
looks like we consistently ranked in the 20's intil 2011.
i wonder if the new line coach has anything to do with this, or just the general decline of the left side of the line.
and i saw cook listed as the starting right tackle in 2008 for 14 games.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/min/2008_roster.htm
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Ya my mistake in the original post
Loadholt was a rookie in 2009. Cook started 3 games as a rookie, all 16 as a sophmore in 2007, and most of the games in 2008.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Ya and that's that he was a Center in College
I did not mean to hijack this thread with the Ryan Cook stuff. He is a local kid here from right here in New Mexico, who walked on at UNM and became a 2 time all conference player. It was a good story. I wish the Vikes had drafted him a few rounds lower and developed him at center.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
What Krinkle said...
Also, Phil was drafted in 2009, not 2008.
Take these stats from NFL.com, they break it down based on where the rush went:
How has PFF’s crediblilty taken a hit?
Ya I caught that after I hit post
need an edit button.
PFF’s story about all NFC North team was a little far fetched.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
I don't see anything wrong with the story...
They did it for every division, and when you only have 4 teams to choose from, the selection is limited.
Just because you may not agree with all the picks does not mean their “Credibility has taken a hit”. In order to make a claim like that you are going to have to provide something concrete.
I love my Vikes
But having the most players on an All NFC North team was a bit of a stretch. I mean I think any one of us would have a hard time selling that story here on a Vikings blog, let alone to a national audience.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Not really..
It just means that where we’re talented on the team.. we’re very talented.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
Look at the rankings.
Can you think of a better RB in this division than AP?
What about a better FB than Kleinsasser?
Is there any WR in the division, other than Megatron and Jordy Nelson who out-performed Percy besides maybe Greg Jennings?
Hutch and Sully are questionable, but so is the offensive line for all 4 teams. In a tub full of turds, you are not going to find any apples.
Jared Allen and Kevin Williams? No questions there, they were two of the best D-lineman in the division. Though Kevin had a slow start due to Plantar Fasciitis.
Maybe Erin was a stretch at LB, but what other LB would you choose based on this year? Urlacher, Tulloch and Matthews already are part of the team. Lance Briggs is the only one I could think of.
The truth is exactly what Revenge for Kluwe states below, we are a talented team missing a franchise QB, whereas the other three teams have their Franchise QB, and may not have as much talent in certain positions.
I'm definately not arguing against some of the selections
AP, Jared Allen and Percy are all deserving.
However, no one from the Oline, LBs or secondary should be anywhere near an All NFCN team, IMO.
I would take Briggs all day, everyday over all 3 of our LBs.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
As much as it pains me to say
John Kuhn is the best FB in the NFC North, statistically speaking. Sauce was more of a TE this year.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
that site only has stats from 2009-2011
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
It's amazing how much hindsight can help in making decisions.
In case you forgot… we had Bryant McKinnie @ LT when McNeill was drafted.
This is the same as those people who savage the Vikings for not drafting Aaron Rodgers in 2005, the year after Culpepper put up 39Tds 11Int and 4700 yards.
At the time, CB was our greatest need. So we drafted a CB that we thought would be a good fit. Which he arguably was. Ced was not the fastest guy in the world, but he was built well for our system and was starting to perform at a high level. Just because he tore his ACL’s in consecutive seasons does not mean he was a bad pick.
It just turned out bad.
by Bjorno on Feb 9, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
griffen
great point about the players we had at the time,and for the record i still think griffen can be a good corner.it usually takes a couple years to come back from acl and he had two acl injuries.He will have to compete on game days harder though as i feel he kinda quit on the team last year.
Yuck, no
I think the team should waive goodbye to Griffin. He was doing well in ‘09, when we had him doing mostly press, but now he’s just damaged goods. He’s a liability in the secondary, and you don’t want that from a guy who’s starting for you.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 10, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Mostly press?
Mostly press?
Griffin almost never played press coverage, he always gave the WR’s at least a 5-10 yard cushion off the line as he didn’t have the speed to keep up with most of them.
It is the same argument all the time
Hindsight is 20/20. Sure it is.
I have already posted numerous times the needs of the team heading into the 2005 NFL Draft. They were LB, RT, and CB mainly. You could add WR too since Koren Robinson was released.
I have posted the rankings from a scouting site that is pretty good as their rankings are not far off when you look back.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2006http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/2006/team_needs/minnesota_vikings.htm
The fact that you think McNeil should have been a left tackle is illuminating. He could have played either side like many players. Most scouting reports thought he would be better on the right side.
http://www.fantasyfootballjungle.com/nfl_draft_prospect/us/228?id=228
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospects/marcus_mcneill.html
“There isn’t a better right tackle prospect in this draft.”
73 Marcus McNeill, OT
McNeill was a four-year starter at offensive tackle for Auburn, starting 41 games from 2002-05. He was a two-time All-American for the Tigers, including consensus honors as a senior in 2005. McNeill was a coaches and Associated Press All-SEC first team member as a junior and senior, and received the Jacobs Trophy as the SEC’s top blocker following his senior campaign. He was also one of three finalists for the Outland Trophy in his senior year. He was selected in the second round of the 2006 NFL Draft by the San Diego Chargers, and became just the second offensive lineman in NFL history to play in the Pro Bowl in his first two seasons.
This guy would have been perfect and was the best tackle on the board when the Vikings selected Griffin. Richard Marshall was just as good a prospect and many thought he was a better corner. As it turned out he was and is.
People who do not care to think rely on the easy response to draft reviews. Hindsight is 20/20.
It is not hindsight when you take a site that has reasonable rankings and if you go by there rankings you can see how the Vikings rankings were way off. It takes a little more thinking to understand this concept and is not for everyone.
But you keep believing that the decisions were good.
I will believe what I know is right. There is a reason why Fran Foley was immediately fired and why Childress was fired. Look at the roster right now and that should tell you all you need to know about Childress’ ability to manage a roster. Giving Childress final say was the worst decision that Wilf has made IMO.
I do not know about the Rodgers stuff as I have never posted anything of the sort.
This is real analysis of that draft and it is not hindsight. You look at rankings pre-draft and see how the front office did. Quite simple actually.
Why is it that every post I read of yours seems so negative.
It’s kind of like you start pouting when someone says anything you don’t agree with. People who don’t care to think might not realize your bullying everyone that posts, but honestly, you probably make people not want to come back to this site. You have the personality of a bears fan. The past is done. Quit pissin and moaning about what we should have done in 06 and focus your time on developing a positive attitude. Late.
by IL PurpleRain on Feb 9, 2012 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
In Mark's defense...
I haven’t followed this site long and have been a poster (however irregularly) even less but I do not sense an overly negative tone in his posts. While I may not always agree with the views therein, the posts are some of the most researched and informative that I’ve seen. Take the many draft scenarios written up for example. Although I am strongly against picking RGIII, at least having someone play devil’s advocate in a rational way without having to resort to immature comments/insults makes for a better discussion in my opinion. I enjoy reading comments/fanposts that you can easily tell were taken seriously regardless of whether or not I agree with them because really, we’re all just Vikes fans with a long off-season and in need of something to talk about. Just my 2c
Oops. That was a reply to Grime about my children.
But thanks for your support.
I just try and create posts that will stimulate conversation. I certainly am no expert. I try to be realistic though except for in my crazy mocks.
Depends on the day.
If his kids been up all night his post can get snippy.. Other wise his a breeze of over rationality. :D
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Well said.
Minnesota Vikings & Chicago Bulls Fan First, American Second.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 10, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
My apologies
I was having a bad week myself, and chose the wrong forum to vent. Mark, sorry for taking out any personal issues on you.
by IL PurpleRain on Feb 10, 2012 1:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No worries.
Sometimes I do post some things that can be taken the wrong way and that is my fault.
It is very hard to be positive when you have a 6-10 season that is followed up with a 3-13 season. I am kind of in a negative mood in regards to the team.
I still offer up my crazy ideas to improve the team because I always have hope.
I just am not the kind of guy that will blow smoke up anyone’s behind.
I will try to be more positive and surely will once we sign some free agents because then the future will be brighter! :)
If you want optimism
Read Eric and um the other guy from Florida OrlandoVikingfan. :D Both of them tend to shed a happy light to the dismal spot that we’re in.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
You, as much as anyone, know that there is more to it than pre-draft rankings.
Pre-draft rankings are nothing more than educated guesses.
If you are going to knock the Vikings for not taking McNeill, then you should be knocking every other team in the league as they all passed on him once. There were other factors that weighed into the decision to draft Griffin other than how Nfldraftscout.com felt about the players potential.
I never said the decisions were good, only that they were not bad. There is a big difference.
Regarding the Rodgers stuff, I never said you did state that. Only that saying we should have drafted McNeill over Griffin is similar to those that claim we are idiots for not drafting Rodgers. Yes, we probably could have drafted him as a RT, but at the point it is arguable that our secondary was a bigger problem than our line and they decided to go with Griffin.
Wrong decision? Yes, In hindsight. Had Griffin not tore both ACL’s, this conversation would be much different. And I do agree that Childress and Foley were not the greatest at roster management, but they did make some good decisions, and should get credit for them as well.
Easy on the implied insults. There is no need to get snippy.
by Bjorno on Feb 10, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
My apologies.
We disagree on the review of drafts. That is OK.
I do not care about other teams so I cannot comment.
I think it is a useful exercise in reviewing how front offices perform. They do have to be held accountable right?
If there is another way to review a front office then I am all ears.
Well that is the problem
We are taking a decision based on speculation and assumption and judging it based on concrete data and knowledge. Almost every team is going to grade poor when you go by those metrics.
Our problem is the lack of a solid QB. You will notice that almost every team that is lauded as a good drafting team has a QB that has been there for years upon years. This gives them the flexibility to make the trades and the picks they want to, rather than scrambling to put together a roster that “might” work.
Granted, you could say that their scouting department was good enough to tell that this QB was going to be good enough to start. Which does hold some merit, The only reason we don’t have that is because of Childress and his final say over the 53 man roster.
If Childress had not traded Daunte, he likely would not have taken the path he has. He wouldn’t be a top-10 QB, but we wouldn’t have been putzing around with Tjack and stop-gaps for as long as we did. We would have grabbed someone like Matt Leinart or Jay Cutler.
I think trading Culpepper was OK
If he could not come and see Chilly then he had to go and the Vikings at least got something in return.
I think the problem was not trying to keep Shaun Hill to go with Brad Johnson.
I agree having a good QB masks a lot of other problems but it does not excuse teams for their drafting. Like New England for example. They consistently stockpile picks in future drafts but then miss out on many of their own 2nd and 3rd round picks.
But I am only interested in Minnesota. I do not believe it is assumption at all. The rankings were there pre-draft. The Vikings chose the specific positions I am talking about. Thus I think you can look back at rankings that were put together before the draft and say if the team only would have just followed these rankings we would be better off.
Do you think Birk not resigning was ok as well?
It is relatively well known that the reason Birk left was due to disagreements with Chilly, and the fact that he did not like the way the team was headed. Which might also explain Culpepper not joining the team when was requested. Perhaps it was Chilly being difficult, rather than Culpepper.
Regardless, draft picks are all hit or miss. Some guys work out, some guys dont. Even that list you provided included several players who were misses in their top 32 players. Trying to judge their picks after the draft requires access to information that we are not privy to. Such as the players off-the-field issues, motivation and other factors that we simply cannot calculate into the equation.
Just like every other team, we have done well in certain respects, poorly in others.
I wanted them to resign Birk prior to the 2009 season
The fact that he decided to leave is a different scenario than what happened with Culpepper. It could have been Chilly being difficult. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. He was a new coach after all and it would have been a nice gesture for Daunte to come to Minnesota and start to work with his new coach on the new offense that was being installed and at the same time rehabbing his injury.
I am not a big fan of Chilly having final say over personnel. I do not question his coaching though since he has been doing it for a long time.
This will be an endless conversation because we see it differently. That is cool. I have my view and you have yours.
Birk disagreed with the move to zone blocking by the Chillydog.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 12, 2012 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Our problem is the lack of a solid QB??
Our real problem is the lack of an O-line. An upgrade at receiver wouldn’t hurt either. As for Culpepper, he couldn’t get out of Minnesota fast enough, after the "love boat " incident. Culpepper forced that trade so he could return home to Florida.
Context is everything.
You should read the post rather than grabbing a snippet and running with it.
I said essentially that our problem with DRAFTING is the lack of a franchise QB. If you have a QB that you know, then you know how he works in the pocket and what kind of O-line is going to be best suited to his style of play.
You are going to know what kind of receiver best suits his throwing style and what routes he is capable of throwing.
This familiarity makes it easier to find players that fit, rather than having to constantly change the scheme and ask players to do something different. Repetition is key for a QB-WR relationship.
As far as Culpepper was concerned, there were a number of things that broke that relationship; from the loss of Birk, Moss and the knee injury… as well as the Love Boat scandal. But I think it was pretty obvious that Chilly wanted him gone from the get-go.
uh, just what are you trying to say here?
I have already posted numerous times the needs of the team heading into the 2005 NFL Draft.
i hate to point this out to you, because you make it a point to sound so smart, but neither fran foley nor brad childress were with the vikings in 2005. and why you are whining about a draft that occured 7 or 8 years ago (depending on how you do the math). it really seems pointless.
now, in the 2005 draft, the vikings did draft a highly touted tackle with their 2nd round pick #49 in the draft. but his name was marcus johnson. he started 4 games at guard, and then 4 games at RIGHT TACKLE and showed good promise. so much that in 2006, the year that the vikings hired both brad childress and fran foley, that the team penciled him in as the starting right tackle before the draft, and then went on to beef up the rest of the offensive line with the additions of hutchinson and artis hicks at guards, to go along with mckinnie, matt birk and marcus johnson.
so, in 2006, the vikings were already set at both tackle positions, but went ahead and improved the o-line with the acquisition of 3 new player (2 veteran starters and a rookie back up). i can hardly complain about that and fact the vikings drafted chad greenway, cedric griffin with their first 2 picks, because those guys filled positional needs and turned out to bre productive starters.
i hope you realize that marcus mcniell was drafted in the 2nd round at pick #50, that means that he wasn’t a top notch talent. he was the 6th o-lineman taken in the draft. that is just about the exact same spot as marcus johnson was taken. i can easily see why the vikings did not decide to draft another right tackle in…..THE 2006 DRAFT.
for that matter, if he is soooo good, then why are the chargers willing to just let him go? perhaps marcus mcniell is just as much of an injury liability as your other lover, jared gaither, but with potentially less financial risk. i just think it is ironic that you are someone who has repeatedly harped on ponder’s “injury prone” moniker as a reason to be leary of him, yet at the same time you keep beating the drum of 2 offensive tackles who actually are injury prone….gaither and mcniell. it seems like a bit of a contradiction. but hey, at least your posts are…..lengthy.
perhaps you are next going to write a dissertation on how stupid the vikings were to not draft manny lawson, that other guy that keeps getting released, but you keep fawning over. i’ll take greenway over lawson, thanks.
also, the reason the vikings got rid of fran foley was NOT because the vikings didn’t draft marcus mcniell in the…..2006 DRAFT. you might want to do some “hindsight research” on this one just to get more of the facts. a simple google search pulls up something about several lies he put on his resume, and the fact that he was only with the team for about 3 months. that just might have something to do with it.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
by krinkle on Feb 10, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I am talking about the 2006 draft
I do know why Foley was fired. If you believe I thought it was because they did not draft McNeill then I do not know what to say.
It does not matter that the Vikings drafted Marcus Johnson in 2005. If he was not good enough then they should look to address the position again especially if you have new coaches. And they did exactly that by drafting Ryan Cook who ended up having to start 3 games at right tackle in 2006.
I did not look at different positions and say that they should have drafted those. I looked at the positions the team actually felt like upgrading. Some will say that the selected Cook because he played center and he could back up Birk. That is fair but he still was selected way too early.
McNeill is being released because of the money he is set to make and the uncertainty of his injury going forward. Mainly it is because of money though. After 6 seasons in the NFL, it is not something that is too unexpected. Cedric played a four years too before he unfortunately got injured. McNeill played 4 years before getting hurt. Gaither played about two seasons before he was injured. Both McNeill and Gaither played at high levels too.
Ponder was hurt his last two years in college and then in his first year in the NFL. There is a big difference when comparing the players. If you do not see that then I cannot explain it any further.
I liked Lawson as another LB for the Vikings. I never mentioned adding him and getting rid of Greenway. In fact I never mentioned getting rid of Greenway at all. You are aware of the fact that the team needs 3 linebackers right? Lawson did well last year playing OLB for the Bengals.
I tend to like players that are released and that could come cheaply. When Lawson, Gaither, Amobi Okoye, and Jamaal Anderson were released this past August (or late July) I wanted the Vikings to sign them. They all signed for cheap. That is just me though.
I make long posts most of the time because I feel like I have a lot to say. Sorry to disappoint you.
the same concerns for injury to ponder should apply to any new acquisition.
especially on an o-line that is supposed to protect the quarterback. i doubt that mcniell is going to be a salary cap dump as you suggest, and he is an injury risk as much as gaither is. the vikings drafted greenway in front of lawson. lawson can’t play 3 downs.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
by krinkle on Feb 10, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
also, your comments about the injuries make absolutely no sense.
you are saying that ponder was hurt in college. so what, he is healed and he has a weak arm. and you say each of mcniell, gaither and griffin played for a few years before getting injured….the point is that those guys are shredded NOW, and you are duggesting that we take these guys in spite of the fact that they have had serious injuries….in the last 2 years….the same as ponder. that makes no sense.
especially because you now want to say that is was good that we drafted cedric griffin, but before you were harping on the vikings for drafting him over mcniell….like 8 years after the fact.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
by krinkle on Feb 10, 2012 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
i'm not the one who needs help here...
if you have an issue with taking ponder due to his injury past, then why would you be lobbying soooo hard for 2 guys who currently have injury issues they are dealing with or coming off of? and, it doesn’t matter that they each had a few injury free seasons about 4 years ago, they each are coming off of multiple injuries over the MOST RECENT 2 SEASONS. and that is what we would be acquiring.
hey, i have this great car i’m selling, it ran BEAUTIFULLY for the first 2 years i had it, you are foing to LOVE it. (although i then got into a multi-car collision on the highway, and the car was in the shop for a while, and now it pulls to the left when i turn the steering wheel to the right…) AND IT’S SUCH A GOOD DEAL. quick, hurry, before somebody else takes it!!!
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Uh, Gaither was never released by Oakland last year, because he was never even signed by them.
We could have signed Gaither last year when he was released by the Raiders and then by the Chiefs. San Diego wants to try and keep Gaither now.
Get your facts straight before you go on the lobbying warpath for this tub of crap again. The guy is a walking injury with an attitude problem who isn’t smart/motivated enough to earn a starting position with Kansas City even when they cleared the way for him to do so. I wonder why do you have such a boner for him. We need healthy winners, not pussies. Oh, and Drew Rosenhaus is his agent….um, no thanks.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 12, 2012 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
I really do not know how to respond to your childish remarks
I said the Raider’s released him. OK that was wrong. He was there and never signed. You got me on that one. Good job.
I probably will make other mistakes too as I post a lot of different stuff. Regardless of how he left Oakland, he would have been worth a look at that time especially with Charlie Johnson struggling IMO. He would have been cheap too.
I do not know how book smart the young man is and I am not going to go there. I think he did very well in Baltimore when he started. When they drafted Oher and put Oher at left tackle something changed with Gaither. Maybe it was his agent putting thoughts in his head? I do not know or care.
He was motivated enough to keep trying out for teams until finally San Diego was desperate. He did very well in the last 5 games last year.
You second to last sentence is a worthless comment that only shows immaturity.
I liked Gaither. So what. You do not. That is cool.
I feel no need to make inane comments to you about the players you like. But if that is how you roll then so be it.
Well, this is about the third time i've mentioned thae fact that he was never a Raider...
but you keep saying the same thing. You also kept saying that since you hadn’t read anything about his attitude problems/work ethic issues, that they didn’t exist. but a few minutes of searching the web shows otherwise. I get that you like him, so what.. To ignore his problems and injuries just to be able to say that YOU have been touting him for years is funny. It doesn’t matter what he did in 2007 ans 2008, he is an inconsistent performer with serious medical issues from 2009 to now.
That is what we would be taking on, a chronic injury who couldn’t crack the starting lineup.
The best part is your insistence on ignoring the fact that he missed the entire 2010 season due to a serious neck injury that could have paralyzed him, and you also ignore the fact that the Ravens moved him to right tackle for good reason. Then you believe the garbage on Bleacher Report et al. claiming that he “objected” to the move, and that is why he didn’t play. That is nonsense. Plus, if that were the case, then it really shows a guy with a piss poor attitude. But he himself said there was nothing to that rumor, and that his health was in serious jeopardy. Check for yourself.
He was motivated enough to keep trying out for teams until finally San Diego was desperate. He did very well in the last 5 games last year.
Also, this part makes me want to use the LOL acronym, but I’m LMFAO instead. He didn’t try out for anybody after Kansas City, he was waived on November 29, and picked up on waivers on November 30 by San Diego. That is because San Diego had lost 3 starting lineman and were in a dire situation. Geezuz, a simple check with the old wikipedia once in a while won’t kill you.
Try it, it’s super easy.
I guess you don’t like it if somebody doesn’t pat you on the back for posting a comment. Guess what, if you are wrong, all you need to do is say “oops” and actually fact check the next time instead of repeating your old post. But maybe that’s too embarassing and it’s easier to ignore it when someone helps you out. I tried to be nice about it before, but you seem to get so offended and dismissive if somebody counters you.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 14, 2012 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
I am still not sure what is up with you
I do not get information from bleacher report nor have I ever referenced that site in any of my posts as a source of information. I challenge you to find one reference I made to anything on bleacher report.
Here is a reference for you.
Here is the “garbage” from Gaither’s mouth …
Last season, the Ravens installed Michael Oher as their left tackle and he struggled with penalties, including eight false starts, and had issues with speed rushers.
Gaither said it definitely matters to him where he lines up.
"Yeah, it does," Gaither said. "I’ve been playing left tackle my whole career. It wouldn’t make much sense to change now and get a whole new position underway at this point in time."
…. I do not know what the problem was in Baltimore but it had something to do with his foot injury. The back injury was a freak injury which he has recovered. I am not sure where I am saying that because I did not read anything about his attitude problem that it did not exist. I said I did not care.
It does not matter whether he was released, never signed, etc. He was available to be brought in for a look see. That is all I have been saying about last year. Just like the Vikings brought in Ryan Harris a couple of times last year.
I do not know what the word desperate means to you but I figured it was implied because of the injuries San Diego had at tackle. I was aware of the reason they signed him last year.
I do not need a pat on the back and enjoy debate I already said I misspoke about him being released by the Raiders. I do not know what else there is to say.
It appears his injuries could be behind him as he started the last 5 games last year for San Diego. Maybe he goes back to the bench this year? Who knows?
I am not an I told you so kind of guy. Never have been, never will be. There is nothing to tell about Gaither. Just another tackle I thought could help the Vikings. I wanted the Vikings to draft Taylor Mays and Brandon Ghee in 2010. Good thing the Vikings did not do that. I can say “I told you so” about that and it would prove I could be wrong.
This is just a debate. That is all it is to me. I do not get upset or try to “win”. There is no winning for me. Just trying to converse about football.
Oher was moved to left tackle for a reason...
It’s because, get this…Gaither was injured and missed the last 5 games of 2009. Then, Gaither skipped voluntary workouts and would not allow the team physicians to see him in the off season to see just how injured he actually was. Then he showed up for mini camp and was in such poor condition that he couldn’t even get threw the first praqctice session before he got worn out. It’s because he looked so shitty on that first day that they moved him to right tackle. The Ravens obviously were leary of his ability to perform. As it turned out, his foot injury hadn’t healed from the 2009 season, and he has a herniated disc in his back that was causing him pain and weakness. He now has a degenerative condition in his back. His health will always be fragile and he will always be a risk for both his reliability and his durability.
I’d rather take healthy winners instead of injury prone underachievers.
Also, he was offered a restricted free agent offer for $2.36 and hadn’t even signed it yet. Drew douchbag, his agent was puilling the same crap with Baltimore that he did with the Vikings and Sidney Rice by trying to hide the severity of his injuries in a contract year in order to try to cash in.
The fact is that Gaither has never played a complete season. He has had multiple injuries every season and he is notorious for being unreliable with a poor work ethic and is injury prone. If you want to CONYINUE to ignore those simple facts, then I guess you just like living in fantasy world and pretending you are some kind of bleacher report style “journalist”.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 16, 2012 12:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And, the fact that you attempt to cherry pick a few quotes
and take them out of context is showing exactly what I described. I could easily show numerous quotes by him that say otherwise. It’s funny how those don’t make it into your comments. I’ll just leave you with the knowledge that you did come across those “alternative references” but simply chose to leave them out. I’m here to talk about football and trying to discuss reality, not fantasyland where the “facts” are subjective.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 16, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
Really, he shouldn't care that they move him to RT from LT?
Well, then I guess Webb shouldn’t care when they move him from QB to WR, right?
Come on, man. Of course a guy is going to get pissy when he goes from LT to RT. That’s a demotion. LT is so much more valuable. It means more money and prestige for him, especially when he should be at that spot over the other guy. If the Ravens had just left Oher on the right side, they’d still have Gaither. They got lucky McKinnie ate his fat ass off our team.
And yes, San Diego had injury concerns with their lineman and took a flier on him. Guess what? It paid off! I think if they weren’t happy with him, they wouldn’t have released McNeil. Call me crazy, but I’d have liked to get a starting quality LT on this team, injury concerns/laziness/whatever, over starting Charlie Johnson.
And while it may take some research to discover whatever problems Gaither had with the Ravens, the fact you even have to research it sort of shows that it isn’t as big as you’re blowing it up to be. Most people never would have even heard about it if they didn’t look on google. I’m sure you’re included in that as well.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Feb 14, 2012 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
He was moved because he was unable to perform and wouldn't sign his tender.
Also, fyi, San Diego hasn’t released Marcus Mcneill. That is one of the basic facts here. Oh, and Jared Gaither is an unrestricted free agent, and his agent is Drew Rosenhaus, he will probably go to whichever team will pay him the most. The Chargers might not even be in the running.
Your comment about needing to look something up means that it is insignificant if completely stupid. I might suggest that you just try it yourself once in a while, it’s so simple even you could do it a caveman could do it.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 16, 2012 12:27 AM CST up reply actions
Neck Injuries
are a huge deal. he might only be able to handle a backup role depending on the severity.
by Norse on Feb 10, 2012 6:39 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Look no further than Peyton Manning
Neck Injuries are a huge deal.
Minnesota Vikings & Chicago Bulls Fan First, American Second.
☠★☪Creator of http:/vikescity.info/
by UnBannedVikingholic on Feb 11, 2012 8:06 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly, does anyone remember Darryl Stingley?
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 12, 2012 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
Of course...
Look, nobody is saying we should just sign him without kicking the tires. With the way modern medicine is now, we will know before we sign him how much of a risk he is.
The reason the Chargers are getting rid of him is purely monetary. They want to have the cap room to sign their other free agents, and they already have a suitable replacement for McNeill.
neck injuries are a huge deal...
(this is the “Inaugural MarkSP18 Memorial 9,000 Word Fanpost Comment Response”)
(except it is researched beyond rotoworld headlines and avoids bleacherreport.com like the plague).
neck injuries are a huge deal…
and in the case of marcus mcneill, it is worth a closer look. this guy is more injury prone than even jared gaither, but he does not appear to have the “lack of work ethic and brains” that plague gaither, along with his ongoing injury issues. the latest speculative reports that the chargers might be releasing mcniell have to do with a couple of different factors not discussed yet in the fanpost…
marcus mcneill has a history of injury problems dating back to his college days. he has been battling his back and neck issues since then. he has “spinal stenosis”, a narrowing of the spinal column. this is a serious medical issue for an nfl player. it ended the career of this has led to several of his injuries and was a factor in his draft position in 2006. in spite of his college success, teams were apparently cautious about him due to neck and back problems. he didn’t lift weights much because of those health problems. also, he had a broken hand and couldn’t do any weight lifting at the combine or leading up to the draft. in addition, he apparently lacked burst off the snap, which was a concern scouts had with him coming into the draft.
he has had several injuries so far in the nfl. he played a majority of the 2006 season with 2 broken hands. he injured his neck in training camp in 2008 causing him to miss the first 2 games of the year. the chargers were about to sign him to an extention at that time, then he got injured and they pulled the offers away and let him play out his original rookie deal. he underwent neck surgery in february of 2009. he didn’t participate in any 2009 ota’s or mini-camp and started training camp on the pup list and finally came back wearing a neck brace. later that season he suffered injuries to his hand again and his ankle. yet, at the end of the season he was a priority for the chargers to sign as a long term solution at tackle.
in 2010, the chargers were in a stalemate with their contract negotiations with him. they offered him a $3.168 million restricted free agency tender for a 1st and 3rd round picks, and he declined to sign it and held out. then the chargers reduced his offer to $630k, and he eventually signed. but he was docked pay for missing games while on the roster exempt list due to his holdout. then they negotiated a 5 year extention (6 year deal total) with him during the 2010 season for $48.5 million and $24.5 million guaranteed (with some very interesting exceptions, as we shall see).
also, mcniell injured his knee in december 2010 as well. but, after the 2010 season, the chargers were set at left tackle for the future with marcus mcniell in place for 5 years with his brand new contract. however, in february 2011, he then underwent arthroscopic surgery on his injured knee.
he missed most of the 2011 training camp due to this knee injury and underwent another arthroscopic procedure on his knee to remove bone spurs. that can’t be a good thing, they form after you have already damaged your knee and can cause rapid degeneration of the joint.
but, he came back from that round of surgery to play 9 games before another neck injury forced him to sit out the remainder of the 2011 season and be put on injured reserve. that is the injury he is currently dealing with and is the basis of the rumors that the chargers might let him go…due to injury, not money, because he is damaged goods and an injury liability.
so now, apparently, the chargers are considering cutting ties with their “franchise left tackle” and will have a gaping hole in their line if they can not sign a free agent or draft a stud to fill his spot. i have to wonder why and how this is possible. if he is so great that he could be considered a savior at left tackle for so many teams, then why would the chargers release a guy that they just signed to a long term contract, and leave themselves completely vulnerable at left tackle? (remember, jared gaither is an unrestricted free agent, with drew rosenhaus as his agent, and he is also an injury machine, so he is no lock.)
well, the answer to this may become clearer when looking at the specific details of the $48.5 million dollar contract he signed in 2010. it was structured very differently than the large contracts that guys like mckinnie, hutchinson, jared allen or adrian peterson signed with the vikings. those contracts typically included large signing bonuses that got spread out over the contract and base salary figures that increased each year over the course of the contract.
however, marcus mcneill’s contract was structured with a very small signing bonus ($1.79m spread over 6 years), and salaries that were lowest in 2010 and highest in 2011 and 2012 and smaller thereafter. $24.5m was guaranteed. but, there is a provision in the language of the deal that means that only $2.235m is actually/absolutely guaranteed. there were provisions which guaranteed his salary each year on a certain date, allowing the chargers the flexibility to release mcniell outright prior to each season and not owe any significant money to mcniell or be in a position to have significant prorated bonus money count against their salary cap.
this was done to protect the chargers against injury. it was the stipulation in the agreement that was holding up the contract prior to the 2010 season, because the chargers were already well aware of the injury history of marcus mcniell and the significant liability that posed for the team. thus, the chargers are protected financially if mcniell cannot play in 2012 (which is the reason for all the buzz on this guy).
“According to sources familiar with the contract McNeill signed last October, there is specific language that requires McNeill to pass a physical given by a team doctor in order to receive his 2012 salary. The six-year, $48.985 million contract guarantees McNeill’s full salary in 2012 and most of his 2013 salary against injury – except injuries to the cervical spine. And the contract allows for forfeiture of McNeill’s $10.5 million salary if, due to a spinal injury, he does not pass a team physical in the first week of the new league year.”
(per kevin acee www.utsandiego.com).
so, this means that they will evaluate his health in march, and base their decision of whether to release him based on his health, not his salary. additionally, the chargers offensive line has other issues to consider this off-season. kris deilman is considering retirement after suffering a concussion and a seizure last season, nick hardwick may opt to leave the team as an unrestricted free agent, and as stated, jared gaither has the option to test the market as a ufa as well.
so, after learning of all the various injury problems that marcus mcneill has suffered and is still dealing with, i am reluctant to have the vikings go after him. as talented as he sounds, his resume reads like an impending injured reserve specialist. he has a fair amount of football mileage on him and obviously has some serious injury liabilities to consider. he doesn’t sound like a long term solution. i would like the vikings to steer clear of this type of prospect and focus on getting a good young nucleus of offensive line talent, or acquiring healthy, reliable “young veterans” to solidify the line in a true “re-building” mode.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
by krinkle on Feb 12, 2012 2:02 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
typo...in the second paragraph, i meant to add....
…“spinal stenosis”, a narrowing of the spinal column…it ended the careers of sterling sharpe, micheal irvin and offensive lineman chris samuels, amongst several other well known athletes.
this is serious shit folks, especially when it is the “cervical spinal stenosis” variety.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
That was an excellent detailed report of McNeill's career and current situation
Good job. Why you felt the need to mention me in curious at best. But heh, flattery comes in all forms. I feel you.
The bottom line is that if he passes the physical they still have to pay him a lot of money in 2012. But with the injury risk going forward it probably is too much of a gamble for the Chargers. Money does play a huge part in their physical evaluation.
McNeill seems to believe he is going to be fine though.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/McNeill-100-Percent-Sure-Hell-Return-136539113.html
Despite all of his health issues that you described very very well, he still managed to start 62 of 64 games in the first four years of his career and made the Pro Bowl twice during that span. Not too bad for a guy with all of his troubles.
I am not sure about the Vikings signing him if he becomes available. I tend to agree with you in that I prefer some younger players. I like Gaither because he possibly could be a stop gap to a tackle that the Vikings select in the second or third round like Nate Potter for example.
Thanks for the shout out though.
Who cares, he only played in 20 of his last 32 games.
And he has been injured 4 times in the last year and ended the year on injured reserve for his ongoing neck injuries that could get him paralyzed. That is what matters.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
If he was at risk for paralysis...
he would not have played again after it happened in the 2010-2011 season.
Let’s also remember that we will not be paying him 10million a year. With the injury concerns, he will come at a discounted price. Depending on that price, he might be worth it.
I would take on 10 games of Marcus McNeill a year over what we have now.
i wouldn't, i want a future, not some high risk band-aid.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
by krinkle on Feb 15, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Really?
So you are saying you would rather have Charlie Johnson at LT again, rather than to take a chance on McNeill? That is crazy-talk.
no, i am assuming that we take kalil (or similar) in the draft to play lt.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Well,
I said:
I would take on 10 games of Marcus McNeill a year over what we have now.
To which you replied:
i wouldn’t, i want a future, not some high risk band-aid.
Oops, hit post too soon...
It is obvious that I would rather have Kalil as well, or even Reiff.
But given the circumstances surrounding this draft, it is entirely possible that Kalil goes #2, and Reiff would be a bit of a reach @ #3 so a trade would be more likely if Kalil goes #2.
Considering that scenario, it would make sense to hedge our bets by taking a risk on a guy like McNeill, who will go at a reduced price due to his injury.
well then, let's hope spielman doesn't screw it up.
cuz i still don’t like the risk factor of taking mcneill. i wish mcneill a long and healthy life without the use of a wheelchair.
well then who the hell are you talkin' to...are you talkin' to me?
Why does everyone assume that Reiff is a reach at three?
With the exception of Luck, the top ten are fairly close in talent. They’re all in the same tier. A lot of the so called experts can’t agree on how to rank them. Some " experts" have even ranked Reiff higher than Kalil.
Right...
The only reason I say he is a reach is because we can trade down and get him later in the draft.
With Reiff, we go back to the same argument about Ponder last year. Reiff might be more pro-ready, but Kalil has a higher ceiling.
Mayock has Reiff over Kalil, mainly because Kalil is a bit more raw and needs to put on more weight to be successful in the pros. I put a lot of stock into what Mayock has to say, as he really does his research and he knows football.
But the main reason is that if we do not get a chance at Kalil, it would be best to trade out of our current position and into a better position to draft Reiff and still get another pick.
For example, Cleveland would be willing to toss us a pick to keep other teams such as Washington from leapfrogging them and drafting RGIII, and we would still be able to draft Reiff @ pick #4.
I would
Take them both. Then you have two good left tackles, and Loadholt on the right. Challenging eachother for a starting spot (since I could see Mcneil and Kalil being able to play RT at a high level) would be good for all three players and light a fire under the line’s @ss finally.
We're going to need more than one addition to the OL
IMO. One should be relatively expensive (i.e. first round pick or top-line free agent), the other should be thrifty (i.e. undervalued free agent or mid round draft pick). If it happens to be two tackles, can’t we move Charlie Johnson inside to guard and have a three tackle rotation (for example, McNeil, Kalil, and Loadholt)?
I say no on Mcneill, if Sandiego is going to release him, then he must have issues
that are not worth the risk. Too bad, another one bites the dust. I don’t want to try to pick up broken goods off the scrap heap and pretend like it’s going to solve the problem, it is only going to add to the collection of problems and issues the team already has.
I say both Gaither and McNeill would both be unwise choices. I’d rather get young guys to mould into a future cohesive line. I just read that Mcneill might need another surgery just to be able to play again.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
San Diego is going to waive him...
Because they would have to guarantee him his salary if they kept him long enough to ensure he was healthy, and they are not willing to take that risk when they have a healthy Gaither behind him.
It is more than just his injury, teams have to scramble a bit to get under the cap as it is lower this year, so they might have to make moves that they really do not want to make.
We will have more time to evaluate him in FA, but we would obviously have to be all but certain that he will be healthy enough to play.
The point is that if he was healthy, they wouldn't release him.
The Chargers are currently projected at $112 million against the cap in 2012, and that includes his $10.5 million salary. So they are not in cap trouble. If they release him, it’s because of health concerns, not the cap.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 14, 2012 12:53 AM CST up reply actions
True...
But you are missing the fact that this cap number does NOT reflect the cost of Vincent Jackson, Jared Gaither, Matt Tolbert and the other FA’s that they may want to resign.
I am not denying the fact that the health concerns factor into it, as that is obvious. What I am saying is that the timing of his injury has rushed their decision. They have to decide whether or not to resign him before we will have to decide whether or not to sign him in FA.
Don’t forget he will be cheaper in FA than he would to the Chargers this year, so it is a calculated risk on our part. The Chargers may not want to guarantee him 10.5 million this year when they are unsure of his health, but we may be interested in giving him an incentive-laden contract that would not nearly hit our cap for 10 million this year.
The only way they will release him is for injury. that is just a fact.
If he was healthy, they would keep him without hesitation.
You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask of the Spiderman
And you don't trash talk about him
by REVENGE4WEBB on Feb 16, 2012 12:29 AM CST up reply actions
Derp...
Yes, we have established that the injury is the main reason for them releasing him. Good job for pointing that out, again. ;P
The point I was making is that they are releasing him because he is injured, and has a $10.5 million cap number. If he was only costing them $3 million toward the cap, they would keep him.
That is the number I expect him to be more like in free agency, and at that price he might be worth the risk.
This is all assuming we don’t go for LT in the draft, which is where I think we are going .
McNeil's injury status is a lot different
than a shoulder or knee. You could argue that if Scott Kooistra hadn’t had his neck issue last year the Vikings o-line would’ve been a lot better—I remember Kooistra looking pretty good in the early pre-season until he was hurt.
I just think the neck is nothing to screw around with, and signing him would be way too much risk.
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Daily Norseman
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
