Vikings Offseason Plan 6.0 - Combine Risers Mock
This is a pre-free agency post combine off season plan.
First it looks like all of the remaining free agents may hit the open market. It would be kind of foolish for a player like Erin H to not go out there and see what he can get. He is 10 days away. Why not wait and see what other teams think about you? That is what I would do.
Then we have some players that are probably going to be released or asked to take a pay cut. I think Herrera and Griffin are gone. They may ask Hutch to restructure but even that bothers me. Why not let him go and see if he can catch on with a playoff team to try and win a ring before he hangs them up?
I think that the Vikings are going to be hard pressed to attract any top free agents. For example, I like Brandon Carr a lot and would hope that the Vikings have a chance at signing him to a contract. But it is rumored that Dallas is after him and probably more teams too. The only way the Vikings could even get into the discussion is to overpay him. Also, Texas does not have any state tax while Minnesota has a tax rate of 7.85% (correct me if I am wrong). If Dallas offers him 8 mil per year the Vikings would have to offer 9 mil to beat that by just 293.5K. Considering the fact that the Vikings are definitely rebuilding and the Cowboys could be in the playoff hunt next year and it is doubtful he would come to Minnesota.
The Vikings could offer him 10 or 11 mil but that is just too much. Brandon Flowers signed a 6 year 50.6 mil deal on 9/16/11. They have similar stats but Flowers is just a little bit better. The question becomes is he worth overpaying? I have to say no.
I think the Vikings need to set their sights lower. If they try for the big free agents, strike out, and then go after some other free agents that could ruffle the feathers of the other free agents. Plus, Spielman wants to get younger and is rumored to be looking at young players coming off their first contracts. I do not think that is in concrete but it is probably a preference.
Thus, I am targeting some second tier or lower free agents to add to the team. Some may start and some may rotate but all should play a role.
I think that the safety position is going to be one that is fought over by teams immediately once free agency starts. This draft class is very weak for safeties. Tyvon Branch is going to get the franchise tag removing him from the market. DaShon Goldson got tagged. I think that we could see Tennessee tag Michael Griffin as well. They need him and the franchise tag number is only going to be about 6.2 mil this year.
Next you have Laron Landry who passed on achilles tendon surgery to let it heal naturally (sound familiar) and may be getting to "swole up" to even play. After Landry there is Reggie Nelson who had a rebirth in Cincinnati and could also be a candidate for the franchise tag (doubtful). But they could offer him a good enough deal for him to accept. That does not leave much and is one of the reasons why it was said that the Vikings were looking at "tweeners" during the Senior Bowl and probably at the combine.
But I have one candidate that I would go after right off the bat.
Thomas DeCoud FS 6'1.3" 207 4.50 forty 6.85 3 cone
He signed a 4 year 2.285 mil deal as a rookie picked #98 in 2008.
Obviously the next position is corner back. I like Tim Jennings and Richard Marshall as potential targets. I would go for Richard Marshall first. He is bigger than Jennings and can play the outside.
Richard Marshall CB 5'11.1" 189 4.42 forty 6.65 3 cone
He signed a 1 year deal last year with Arizona for 3.5 mil.
He played some safety last year when Kerry Rhodes was hurt. NMVike also likes him and has him in his off season plan too. But he wants him to play safety. It could be that can happen if the Vikings cannot get DeCoud.
The next position needing immediate attention is linebacker. With both Henderson's set to become free agents the Vikings will definitely be shopping for a linebacker. I kind of like David Hawthorne but I am targeting Dan Connor. I think Connor is bigger and could be ready to break out. He got hurt before but I think he will be cheaper than Hawthorne. I am not sure about Brinkley and this could be his last year with the team.
Dan Connor LB 6'2.3" 231 4.67 forty 6.78 3 cone 4.25 short shuttle
He signed a 4 year 2.494 mil deal as a rookie picked #74 in 2008.
The next position is wide receiver. I think the Vikings need at least one and this could be the position where the spend the most money. There are obvious top targets like Vincent Jackson, Marcus Colston, Reggie Wayne, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, and even Brandon Lloyd. DeSean Jackson already received the franchise tag. DWayne Bowe is going to receive the tag too. I think Stevie Johnson is going to reach an agreement with the Bills. Welker and Wallace are out of the picture. Lloyd & Wayne are too old. VJack and Colston are both 29 and probably will go to teams that have a shot at the playoffs. So I would target Laurent Robinson, Pierre Garcon, and Robert Meachem. I would like to sign Pierre Garcon but it is reported he turned down a 5 year 35 mil deal. http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4945/pierre-garcon
That leaves Robinson and Meachem. I think many teams will be after them so the Vikings will have to pay up to get either. But are they worth it? We were already burned by Berrian. I say go for it though. I would go for Robinson.
Laurent Robinson WR 6'2" 199 4.38 forty 6.83 3 cone
He signed a 4 year 2.430 mil deal as a rookie picked #75 in 2007.
He is interesting because he did not do well with the Rams but shined in Dallas. Maybe he needs another WR opposite him to take the pressure off? Regardless, he is super fast and can get deep which is what the Vikings will want him to do to keep the safeties honest. Whether or not Ponder can get him the ball on a consistent basis remains to be seen. But that is a whole nother story.
I think the next spot is defensive tackle. I like Brodrick Bunkley and Amobi Okoye.
Broderick Bunkley 6'2.5" 307 4.95 forty
He is a little older but is very good against the run which is what the Vikings need. He could cost 3 to 5 mil per year too so they may go for Okoye but I will leave him for now.
The last signing would be Kellen Davis. He is a big TE and excellent in line blocker. Just what the Vikings need. And if they can steal him from the Bears it is even better.
Kellen Davis 6'6.5" 262 4.59 forty
So in summary I want to sign Thomas DeCoud FS, Richard Marshall CB, Dan Connor LB, Laurent Robinson WR, Brodrick Bunkley DT, and Kellen Davis TE. I would let all the remaining free agents hit the market. I would release Hutchinson, Herrera, and Griffin.
The last thing I would do before I get to the draft is extend Jared Allen. They need to add a few years to his deal in order to lower the cap hit as much as possible this year. His remaining salary is not guaranteed. If they give him a 5 year deal for 50 mil and guarantee the 26 mil he has remaining on his deal they can spread most of that out over the 5 years. Since his first deal he signed was a 6 year deal, they could only spread out his signing bonus for 5 years according to the CBA. I know that spotrac and even Tom Peliserro are reporting that his 15.5 mil bonus is spread over the 6 years. But this site says differently ...
http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp
An expression that was thrown about repeatedly during the various labor meetings is "cash over cap". Well, these signing bonuses are what insiders were talking about, when they brought up that term. One of the things that held up negotiations amongst the owners with the last CBA extension (both back in 2006 and in 2011) was the move to place some kind of cap on the amount of signing bonus money that could be pushed into future years for cap accounting purposes. Although there was no cap on signing bonuses, there was a limit put in place that signing bonuses could only be prorated for up to five (5) years. With the latest CBA, that five-year figure remains unchanged.
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Thus I believe that Allen's prorated bonus has one year left at 3.1 mil. That would count immediately against the cap plus the new spread out money which is 5 mil per year. That would make his salary about 8.1 mil. They can add another 2 mil and still save about 4.7 mil against the cap.
Now if he refuses then I would trade him. I actually am in favor of doing that anyway because I think the rebuilding is going to take a couple of years and his salary counts too much against the cap. Add in AP's cap number and these two are going to cost over 30 mil against the cap in 2013. If the cap is at 125 mil that is 24% for two players. I know it is not popular but the timing could not be better right now. He is coming off a monster season and a team will definitely give up their first round pick plus another one. If not then no deal. I am not including a trade at this time but I think they would be smart to do it now. I can let Robison and Griffen rush from the right defensive end spot and let Ballard play the base DE. Then I would draft another base DE. But is is not in this plan. Just an extension.
So finally I can get to the draft. I am still assuming that the Vikings will get a 3rd round compensatory pick for Rice and I now believe they may get a 5th round compensatory pick for either Edwards or TJack. I do not think that the rumored two fourths is fair. In 2010 Cincinnati lost Stacy Andrews, Ryan Fitzpatrick, & TJ Houshmanzadeh while signing only JT O'Sullivan. Andrews signed a deal for 6 years 39 mil. Fitzpatrick signed a deal for 3 years 7 mil. Housh signed a 5 year 40 mil deal. They received a 3rd and 4th round pick.
In 2009 Chicago lost Bernard Berrian who signed a 6 year 43.4 mil deal and they got a 3rd round pick. Also, Cincy lost Madieu Williams who signed a 6 year 33.75 mil deal and Justin Smith who signed a 6 year 45 mil deal. Cincy got one 3rd round pick.
The only possible way they can downgrade Rice to a 4th is because of his production. But Berrian had 48 catches for 7 TDs while playing in all 16 games while Rice had 32 catches and 2 TDs while playing in 9 games. Cincy still got a 3rd round pick for Stacy Andrews even though he only played in 10 games. So I do not see Rice being injured as a reason to downgrade the compensatory pick. Rice signed for more than what Berrian signed.
I could be wrong but they better have a pretty dang good reason for NOT giving the Vikings a 3rd round pick for Rice.
Thus I am going with a 3rd and a 5th in this mock instead of the two fourths.
Let me first blather on some more, er, I mean explain why I would not take certain players at #3.
Morris Claiborne measured in at 5'11.1" 188 and ran a 4.47 or 4.50 forty. His 3 cone time was a horrendous 7.01. His short shuttle was 4.12 but that 3 cone is a huge red flag for me. Look at Darelle Revis. He measured in at 5'11.4" 204 and ran a 4.38 forty. His 3 cone was a fabulous 6.56. His short shuttle was 4.08. He was bigger, faster, and quicker.
Besides the numbers though, I did not see any top offense with a NFL caliber QB and WRs that he faced. Arkansas was the closest last year. Plus he had some pretty good players on that defense too. Casey Hayward had more tackles, picks, and passes defended the last two years and he did not have as much help as Claiborne.
I just could not pick Claiborne at #3 at all. Maybe in the teens but not that high.
Justin Blackmon measured in at 6'0.7" 207. He did not run because of his hamstring but managed to do some other running. Go figure. He dropped about 10 pounds or so to come to the combine and then did not run (like Alshon Jeffery). That is a serious yellow flag for me. He is trying to wait to see if he can get faster I guess. Even if he runs a forty in the low 4.4s at his pro day I would not take him at #3 at all. He just is not in the same class as a Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, or Larry Fitzgerald. He is too small for my tastes. He had fabulous production in that hurry up offense that is for sure. But I like Michael Floyd's production just as much coming from that Notre Dame offense. Plus Floyd does have legitimate size and speed too.
That leaves Luck, RG3, Kalil, Richardson, DeCastro, and maybe Coples.
I think Indy will take Luck for sure. It is assumed that the Rams will trade out of the #2 spot and some team will take RG3.
Thus the Vikings are set to take the first Combine Riser (as if he could rise more).
1.3 Matt Kalil OT USC 6'6.5" 306 4.96 1.70 30 reps 4.56 short shuttle
USC baby!
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/kalil%20matt09b10caf02/1.html
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/post/2012/1/fanatical-football-fiends-matt-kalil-2012-nfl-draft-scouting-report.html
I think all doubt should be removed about this pick right? Even I cannot come up with trade scenarios that would make any sense. I could come up with some but they do not make sense (as if they ever do). I will throw this one trade that they may be able to do.
Tampa needs corners bad but also could use a big time running back. And there is only one big time running back in this draft. There past experience could lead them to believe they could get another Blount type back later in the draft. But that is rolling the dice and most of the time you come up snake eyes. But they really need that corner and Cleveland could use another corner as well. So maybe Tampa offers their first and second to move up two spots to get Morris Claiborne? Is that worth it? Most would say yes. Even I would lean that way too. But not today.
Plus, Cleveland could take Kalil themselves and put him on the right side. They need a right tackle themselves. Or Cleveland may get an offer from another team who wants to move up to get Kalil.
There is no trading of this pick. Take the USC stud and plug him in at left tackle and hope he is not a bust.
2.35 Zach Brown LB North Carolina 6'1.5" 4.44 1.59 27 reps
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/brown%20zach4d1fa3b353/1.html
This is one heck of a LB and if he fell to the second round it would be awesome. I was thinking about Stephon Gilmore here but after he ran a 4.44 forty and a 6.61 3 cone he is likely to be gone towards the end of the first round. In fact, Brown could also be gone. But not in this mock. He falls to the Vikings.
3.67 Mike Martin DT Michigan 6'1.3" 306 4.84 1.69 36 reps 4.25 short shuttle
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/martin%20mikee0ff9ce962/1.html
I wanted to get Josh Robinson or Harrison Smith here but with Robinson running a 4.29 forty and Smith the only decent SS after Barron I think they both will go in the second round. I also would take Jerel Worthy here but he probably will be gone. There really is not much difference between Martin and Worthy size wise.
comp Jamell Fleming CB Oklahoma 5'10.5" 206 4.43 1.57 23 reps 6.71 3 cone
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/fleming%20jamell2a2919246f/1.html
I think that Fleming is a risky pick in that he had some academic troubles at Oklahoma. But he overcame those and since the Vikings like to take chances on these kinds of players (Chris Cook and Chris DeGeare) I say why not? He has a really good forty and 3 cone time.
4.98 Marvin McNutt WR Iowa 6'2.6" 199 4.42 no bench
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/mcnutt%20marvin2c7f4bd66c/1.html
I think this is a good spot for McNutt. He could go higher though. I debated between Brian Quick and Marvin Jones too but chose McNutt because of his production. Running that 4.42 helped out McNutt a lot. If he can duplicate that at his pro day and manage to do over 15 bench presses then he definitely will go before this pick. But he goes here for now!
5.130 A.J. Jenkins WR Illinois 6'0.2" 190 4.37 12 reps
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/jenkins%20aj5e38006de6/1.html
Speed. The Vikings can use more speed. I already took McNutt and added Robinson in free agency. Now they have Harvin, Robinson, Jenkins, McNutt, Jenkins, Burton, & Arceneaux. Not too bad a set of WRs. Burton and Arceneaux are on the bubble.
comp. Tom Compton OT 6'4.7" 315 5.03 1.67 20 reps
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/compton%20tomb62dfb4f8c/1.html
I think that he is going to play guard but it is nice that he has tackle experience. At this point getting a First Team FCS All American is not bad.
6.164 Tank Carder LB TCU 6'2.3" 236 4.56 1.56 19 reps 4.18 short shuttle
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/carder%20tankd773b5439c/1.html
I like Carder and his instincts. I think he will end up being the steal of this mock draft. I like him to back up Dan Connor too. Brinkley is going to really have to step it up.
This pick is from the Browns for the Jayme Mitchell trade.
7.193 Donnie Fletcher FS/CB 6'0" 201 4.53
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/fletcher%20donnie30f1935773/1.html
I think Fletcher could be moved to free safety. The Vikings would then have some decent young prospects in Fletcher & Raymond to try at safety.
7.206 Jaye Howard DT Florida 6'3" 301 4.75 24 bench
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/howard%20jaye530f9b905a/1.html
This pick is from the Patriots via the Eagles for the Moss trade.
I compare Howard to Guion a bit. He is worth a shot this late and should be able to provide a little bit of depth. I do think this is too low though.
7.222 Coty Sensabaugh CB 5'11.2" 189 4.37 15 reps 6.60 3 cone
http://www.fanaticalfootballfiend.com/3/category/sensabaugh%20coty729c36e0d6/1.html
I think that anyone that can run that fast is worth a pick.
This is the pick from the Giants from the Rosenfels & Reynauld trade (hopefully)
Here is a recap of the draft ...
1.3 Matt Kalil OT
2.35 Zach Brown LB
3.67 Mike Martin DT
comp Jamell Fleming CB
4.98 Marvin McNutt WR
5.130 A.J. Jenkins WR
comp Tom Compton OT
6.164 Tank Carder LB
7.193 Donnie Fletcher FS/CB
7.206 Jaye Howard DT
7.222 Coty Sensabaugh CB
I am sure this will change as players get tagged and once free agency begins.
I wish I could come up with more trades but the Vikings do not have any players that other teams want besides their best players.
This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.
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Oh my goodness, no trades!
I liked it regardless though. I wouldn’t mind a trade with the proposed trade with the Bucs though.
Why? Because I don’t think the Browns will take Kalil to be their RT. What a waste. And they have the opportunity to grab Blackmon or Richardson there. They’re hurting for playmakers on offense as bad as we are, and Hillis may go to another team, leaving them desperate at RB.
It took a lot of restraint.
You can believe that. But I try to be reasonable in the trade scenarios. One little trade down may not hurt but it is a risk. Tampa could take Kalil themselves and move Donald Penn to right tackle. The Vikings need to just take Kalil and be done with it unless RG3 is there. That would mean that the Rams took Kalil instead.
If Tampa offers their 1st and 2nd picks, I would take it. And I think they’ll do it for Trent R. not for Clairborne. Cleveland won´t go for Kalil and I dont think any team will trade up for him. So we´ll hav Kalil with the 5th pick and then I would hope we get a CB in the 2nd round. Skol!
If Cleveland does not get RGIII they could easily take Kalil
he is BPA after Luck and RGIII are gone.
Oh, you mean my pilot's license? That's out back in the Cessna. Or perhaps you're referring to my license to kill. Revoked. Trouble at the Kazakhstan border. I could give you the details but then I'd have to kill you, which I can't do because my license to kill has been revoked.
They could of course, but what´s the point if they already have probably the best OT in the nfl? they`re desperate for playmakers: QB, RB and WR.
I don’t buy that recent fuzz that LOTs are almost as important as QBs. Just check out where the teams with elite QBs are and where the teams with elite OTs are. IMO Cleveland in particular would be better off with Clairborne or even Blackmon than with Kalil, and better yet, they should make a good bid for RGIII. Skol!
Becuause they desperately need a RT
And he is BPA. DId u read my comment? I said if they did not get RGIII, they could take Kalil…. Same reason if the Rams took Kalil we could take RGIII, to trade him.
Oh, you mean my pilot's license? That's out back in the Cessna. Or perhaps you're referring to my license to kill. Revoked. Trouble at the Kazakhstan border. I could give you the details but then I'd have to kill you, which I can't do because my license to kill has been revoked.
I do not understand this argument
Many are looking at playoff teams and seeing they do not have an elite left tackle and this are saying you do not need one. Conversely, they look at teams with top tackles and then say that they have not helped their team get over the hump.
I think this is very strange logic indeed. The left tackle is very important to your QB no matter what his level. If your QB is running for his life or on his back half the time then your offense is going to suffer.
The Vikings have a QB that they believe could be the one. They need someone to protect him or someone else if they pick up someone else.
Cleveland will most likely not select Kalil even if he is there. But they do need a right tackle. Kalil would be a pretty good right tackle. To have Joe Thomas on one side and Kalil and Alex Mack at center is a pretty good looking line.
Sure they can wait until the second or third round and pick up a right tackle there. No question. Although, the same can be said for CB and WR too.
I don’t know. If I am Cleveland and Kalil is there I probably will take him especially since I have another first round pick at #22. Having Kalil is excellent insurance if Thomas gets hurt too.
Bottom line is teams are better off taking the BPA no matter the position. If they start saying they do not need this guy or that guy then they get themselves in trouble IMHO.
Look at the Vikings in 2007. They did not need AP but they took him because he was the BPA. That has worked out very very well. I would always take the BPA no matter what. That way you are getting a good player to add to your team and not reaching for players because you need them at a certain position.
Here I expected...
a plethora of trade downs in the first with trade ups in the lower rounds to result in the highest possible number of 2nd & 3rd round picks in what could be a deep draft (though not full of elite talent IMO).
I’m surprised how much I like your FA targets. The prospect of getting Carr really dropped for me when I began thinking of the competition there will be. Add in Grimes getting the tag and I’m really starting to like Marshall. I like the Connor idea & would like to see us try to keep Erin H though if the price is right. Thoughts on Tulloch? Robinson at WR scares me a bit in the same way as Manningham due to the other WRs on their teams. I’d much rather see the team nab Garcon is possible.
This is my favorite draft of yours yet. Love Kalil. I’ll be crossing my fingers for Gilmore to fall to us in the 2nd but wouldn’t hate Brown as the choice either. Thoughts on Stephen Hill if available? I’m also a fan of the McNutt pick choice.
The WRs are going to be hard to entice to come to Minnesota
Robinson is a concern but the Vikings have to do something. He has nice size and great speed so I say why not. Worst case scenario is the bring back Aromatherapy.
Tulloch is short. Real short. He is a tackling machine though. But his price tag is going to be high just like Lofton and Hawthorne. I think Connor can be had for less.
I think Stephen Hill goes in the first. But even if he was there in the second I would probably pass. His production is minimal. I know he was playing in that funky offense but all we really know for sure is that he is big and fast. That is not enough for me. The Vikings need a WR that can run patterns well.
I like Stephen Hill a lot...
But he is too much of a risk to take him at our pick in the 2nd round. Now, if we were to trade up out of the third to grab him in say the middle of the 2nd round… I would not be upset.
There are a lot of Calvin Johnson comparisons with Stephen Hill considering the college they went to… But the numbers are so different, 178 Receptions for 2927 yards for Calvin, 49 receptions for 1248 yards for Stephen.
Obviously we are missing some production there. But, it should be noted that Calvins YPC average was 16.4Yards and Stephens is 25.5yards. That is still pretty interesting. Maybe there is something to this gimmicky offense lowering his production.
True
but the gimmicky offense could be the reason he was open so much too. With defenders trying to figure out who has the ball in the triple option all the time, he easily could have had single coverage because the safeties were fooled.
Nice Write-Up
Like the McNutt pick, especially if we can get him at 98. He looked outstanding at the combine and no one had better hands.
Zach Brown puzzles me. He is TALENTED but RAW. At UNC, the coaches said he was the fastest player on the team a few yrs ago. But he misses a lot of tackles. I think with NFL coaching he can become a force on the defense.
Straight Cash Homey
by MOSScomeBACK2vikes on Mar 2, 2012 7:53 PM CST reply actions
You really knocked it out of the park for that whole no trades business.
Really good job. I liked Connor in my offseason plan, also. I think I heard that Garcon turned down the Colts offer not because of money but because he didn’t want to play for them anymore, so I think we could get him around that same market if we really went for it.
Nice write up, though. I’d like to get any/all of these guys.
"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -Mark Twain
Car and Taxes
I live in Texas. It’s true that there is no state income tax, but only the naive believe we have truly lower taxes. They make up the difference in property taxes and sales taxes. In the end, I pay about the same amount of taxes here as I did living in Minnesota. When you factor in the wind-storm insurance for living on the coast, I may even pay more in taxes/insurance.
So, I doubt that the income tax thing would even factor into it, especially if Carr were to own property in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area (where property taxes are terrible).
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
I did not know that.
Thanks for the info. But the chance to play for the Cowboys may be enough for him. I just think that he is going to cost a heck of a lot of money and if he does not pan out then the Vikings will be on the hook for all that salary.
No doubt he'll be expensive
And we’ll likely have to outbid Jerry Jones if we really want him…but I doubt that state income tax will have anything to do with it.
Ponder. Peterson. Percy. Purple Perfection.
Cowboys
Dallas hasn’t done anything since the 90’s the luster is gone. The Vikings have been more relevant then them and players don’t have to worry about the owner running down to the sideline undermining the coach.Sure were rebuilding but who besides ESPN expect Dallas to really contend.
by memphis viking on Mar 2, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
I like your scenarios
This would be great if it played out as you listed Mark. Only F.A. I am not sold on is Robinson. He may be a one year wonder. I also agree with the possibility of trading Allen for the right price. The Vikes need to add more young building blocks and can get some by trading Allen.
by JM67 on Mar 2, 2012 9:22 PM CST via mobile reply actions
So far I agree with your assessment of the attraction of Minnesota
We had a hard enough time attracting a defensive coordinator and will have a harder time attracting top-tier talent until a few things are settled.
I’m with you on the assessment of McNutt, too. It would be great if he was available at 98 but he will probably go higher.
by liveforadrenaline on Mar 2, 2012 9:30 PM CST reply actions
This and that
> They may ask Hutch to restructure but even that bothers me. Why not let him go and see if he can catch on with a playoff team to try and win a ring before he hangs them up?
Because it’s not about Hutch. It’s about the Vikings, and what’s best for the Vikings. I don’t care if Hutch gets a dozen rings with other teams. If he doesn’t get one with the Vikings, it’s meaningless to me.
> Also, Texas does not have any state tax while Minnesota has a tax rate of 7.85%
Does a player have to be a resident of the state of the team they’re playing for?
> 2.35 Zach Brown
I’m with you on Kalil. If the man pans out, he’s just as important an investment as Mt.McKinnie was, way back when, with better potential for the long run.
But I don’t like an LB this high. The Vikings have Greenway and Erin to hold down the edge and Brinkley should be back and ready to go in the middle. I’d rather see them pull in a CB, or even a Safety if the right talent is available.
Great work up, as always!
Ah, ah,
We come from the land of the ice and snow,
From the midnight sun where the hot springs blow.
The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands,
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
SKOL!
Thanks
I think that with Hutch you have to wonder if he will accept a pay cut to play his last year on a rebuilding team? I would rather try and sign Evan Mathis using some of that money from Hutch.
I think Erin H is going to play elsewhere. There is no talk about a new deal or if he would accept. The Vikings are going to have to offer him a nice deal real soon though.
If they do then yes it would be high for a LB.
I think we need a couple of LB's before it is too late.
Both Hendersons could be gone before you know it. Now is the time to start grooming a couple, and you need real quality at the LB position or you get killed with teams running the WCO…
by liveforadrenaline on Mar 2, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
what ever happened to
ross homan? i think he was signed to the practice squad. He was the defensive play caller for defense at the ohio state university so I was expecting him to at least make the team on special teams. I was suprised when he didnt make the team.
by jhbvikingsny on Mar 2, 2012 10:18 PM CST up reply actions
ah gotchya
well we did sign elimimian. maybe he can be a decent LB. Although I expect him to probably be a special teams player in the nfl. I can have high hopes though can’t I?
by jhbvikingsny on Mar 2, 2012 10:23 PM CST up reply actions
I don't like Brinkley in a Tampa 2
IIRC he has problems dropping back into coverage, even though his lateral speed is generally great. He’s a pretty sure tackler, but would create coverage problems for us over the middle.
Also, two LBs with massive coverage issues (Greenway, too) would be pretty devastatingly bad in our defense.
I think this is particularly true given what I’ve heard about the defense (which should emphasize LB zone coverage more).
One advantage of resigning Hutch is...
To be a mentor to Kalil, should the Vikings be able to draft him.
I'm cool with letting the coach do that.
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
am i crazy
for wanting the vikings to snag stephen hill in the early second round if he’s still there? Kirkpatrick has also dropped slightly and miiiiight fall to us in the second by a miracle.
I would say yes
He is a deep threat only. He needs to learn how to run other patterns. He probably can but is it worth it to wait for that development. I think that if they do not take him at #35 then he will be gone by #67. I am OK with that though. McNutt is plenty good enough and more polished. He may not have as much upside but he also may not have much downside either.
yeah
I hear what your saying, he put up some good numbers in the combine but his college career painted a different picture. He played for a team that was more focused on running the ball than a pass attack. I was really high on blackmon for a while but I really think kalil is the correct choice. Might not be the sexy pick but it’s the smart one. I’ll be really upset if they don’t take him. Either way I don’t think I’ve been so pumped for a draft before. I’ve already taken days off of work in anticipation.
by jhbvikingsny on Mar 2, 2012 10:14 PM CST up reply actions
Blackmon, Claiborne, or Kalil would be good picks
But Kalil is the only one who can keep Ponder upright (hopefully).
I want a WR and CB too. But I think they need a free agent at each position because of the experience first and foremost.
agreed
as long as ponder gets time to take a few steps and go through his progressions we could have a decent passing attack. I can appreciate the argument that adding a top tier rookie receiver can help spread the defense but at the end of the day opposing defenses are going to focus the proven method of beating the vikings. Stack the box, stop the run, pressure the QB. Drafting Kalil will have a greater long term impact in creating a dynamic offense in regards to pass protection and run blocking. Another thing I really liked about Stephen Hill is because of his experience in a run first offense is that he is an incredibly developed blocking WR which could also help our offense.
by jhbvikingsny on Mar 2, 2012 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
I still think I would like to pick up Minnifield in the second and work on linebacker a bit deeper.
I think Minnifield will be here and be a solid pick up. As well we need coverage guys bad bad bad. I know you like Gilmore better, but alas we’ll just disagree on him :d
The Vikes aren't in a remodeling or reconstruction they are in a burn the place down and start praying they don't mimic the Lions rebuilding process.
Yeah
Stephen hill was sexy as hell at the combine, but my fingers are crossed for gilmore.
by IL PurpleRain on Mar 2, 2012 10:18 PM CST via mobile reply actions
unfortunately
The Pats will take him late first round. He is a stud and BB knows they need secondary help. I hoped the Vikes would get him in the second too! See my very early draft board
Irrelevant Sidenote
Am I the only one who likes Floyd more than Blackmon? Floyd’s numbers, given the fact that he had Rees throwing to him are actually pretty impressive – Blackmon’s production (which is still undoubtedly related to his high talent level) has a lot to do with the fact that he had Weeden throwing to him in a high paced offense.
Floyd has more on the field (and after the combine, off the field) speed, better WR moves, and greater size. I think his body control is a lot better and his hands are also probably a bit better and does a much better job boxing out DBs.
This is not to say Blackmon is bad, but I would be a little livid picking him at 3. Or if we, for some reason, trade down, picking him anywhere before 12 or so.
draft picks
i like the picks but the 2nd. dt. pick i dont like. lb. here is better losing a lot of depth f.a.
Fair
but I had already picked up two LBs at that point in Zach Brown and Tank Carder. Plus I have them signing Dan Connor too. That is 3 new LBs. They have Greenway, Brinkley, Dean, Elimimian, and McKenzie on the roster already.
So I thought another DT would be good to develop.
We could use one.
Guion’s been on the team for several years and hasn’t really panned out as anything more than a rotation guy. Ayodele certainly wasn’t making a good case for us having signed him. Evans, last I remember, was drawing encroachment penalties on key 4th downs.
We could use another DT beside Kevin Williams.
by REVENGE4KLUWE on Mar 3, 2012 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
Free agency/ Draft
First F/A I think if Carl Nicks is available you go after him but if he gets taged i would also try to get Grubbs from the Ravens. Either of these two would be a good addition to put next to Kalil if we draft him. I like your pick ups Decoud FS, Connor LB, Marshall CB.
I would however would go after Paul Soliai at NT. I also think Spielman will try to sign Vernon Carey RT. I would rather go after Meachum WR from the Saints because just from Robinsons WR playing history he could be a one hit wonder. Otherwise over all i like your selections. Now the Draft I would take Kalil with the #3 pick no question unless Clevland would give us there two 1st R picks to us for the #3 pick and if Kalil is gone we can take Mike Adams from Ohio State but anything short of that its Kalil. 2nd R pick Gilmore CB, Barron SS, Harrison SS. I do not like drafting a LB with the 2nd R pick. also taking flemming with our 3rd R comp pick i would find some one else. I like the back to back picks at WR Mcnutt 4th R, Jenkins WR 5th R. Otherwise except for those two moves i like your draft.
Unless we find an LB in FA
I think targeting a MLB is a priority. We need one in this version of a Tampa 2 and I have seen no indications that we are set up for that sort of thing as our personnel stand right now. If Zach Brown is there, absolutely I think we should take him – his ability to drop back and act within zone coverage is probably already better than Brinkley’s. Of course if Gilmore is there, yea we should snap that up, but I doubt it.
But Brown’s play awareness on passing downs is good. And in our scheme, that’s vital, especially given how great our OLBs are at run defense (uncommonly good, really).
The FA market for big, fast receivers is better than the MLB market, and it’s a buyers market this year. Not so for LBs.
And yes, I think it might be a tradeoff given the price tag of Kalil and whatever FA Guard we might try to target.
I think those free agents you mentioned will be expensive
As it stands now the Vikings are reportedly 10 mil under the cap. If they release Hutch, Herrera, & Griffin they would have close to 24 mil available.
Nicks is going to cost over 8.5 mil per year. Grubbs will not be too far behind that number. Soliai is going to cost the top DT number which the franchise tag number this year is 7.9 mil.
If they got one of the guards and Soliai then they are looking at 16 mil spent already most likely. Then to add Meachem (who I like too) it is going to cost a little bit to get him too.
I think even my scenario may be too ambitious based on what these players are going to command.
The Vikings really need to extend or trade Allen. If they extend him then it will lower his cap number this year. Some say why would he do that and I say because it would guarantee that remaining 26 mil of his salary. He can get hurt on any play (knock on wood).
But if the Vikings could get Soliai then I would cut Ayodele and free up his 3 mil which there will be a small cap hit for his signing bonus. And if they were to sign one of these top guards then I would cut Charlie Johnson too. That would free up another 3 mil minus any small cap hit for his signing bonus. I think that Spielman is planning on starting Fusco at one guard spot. If they get Grubbs for example, then they would have Berger to back up both spots along with Love and Brown.
I do not like Harrison Smith at #35. That is too high for him and smells like a reach for need. I want to take the BPA in every round.
Just a sidenote
We don’t get the Giants 7th round pick according to the Vikings website. However we could be inline for an extra pick if the comp picks only total 29. There would then be an extra 3 picks with the Vikings getting MR. Irrelevant. (Comp picks need to total 32 or it acts as a round 8 following the draft order). I’ve also seen on numerous websites that try and predict the comp picks having the Vikings receiving a 3rd and 4th round comp picks (I hope they are right) and they don’t have the comp picks totaling 32 and have the Vikings getting an extra comp pick in the 7th giving us 11 picks total.
"Spielman wants to get younger and is rumored to be looking at young players coming off their first contracts."
Hope that’s true, because there isn’t going to be a miracle fix of every position with a depth problem.
Good write up and fun read.
Pretty solid plan Mark
I have Decoud and Bunkley on my wishlist as well. The only real difference between our plans is that I would most likely avoid Laurent Robinson. While his talent is undeniable, he has already played for 3 teams and has never played a full NFL season. Prior to last season in Dallas, his best year was probably his rookie season in which he had 37 catches for 437 yards and 1 TD in 15 games. Garcon on the other hand has steadily improved each year over his 4 year career, and had his best season without Manning in the lineup. Garcon has also missed some games over his career, but not nearly as many as Robinson.
I do not like Donnie Fletcher at all at corner. A 7th round pick to see if he could make it at safety would not be bad. If anything he could compete for a spot on STs.
Jamell Flemming had a great Combine. He flashed at times at Oklahoma over the last few seasons, but he also disappeared for games at a time. I think where you took him is about right. But you know who I prefer in that range in the draft. You drafted 6 Senior Bowl participants which is about what I expect. Mike Martin and Cam Johnson are the 2 that I think are strong candidates to be drafted by the Vikes.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Thanks
I think Fletcher is definitely a safety and that is where I would put him.
I picked Fleming with the 3rd round comp because I expect Casey Hayward to be gone at that point.
But this was mainly a mock of the some of the best performances from the combine.
As for Robinson, I know he has been hurt and on 3 teams but I think his price could be right. Garcon reportedly turned down 5 years and 35 mil. If that is the case then he may have priced himself out of our range considering the number of free agents we need to sign. We need to get guys in the 5 mil range with maybe one around 7 mil. Unless, of course, they do something about Allen’s contract.
very true about the $$ situation
I’m still holding out hope that Garcon is looking for a fresh start. But money is usually the first priority for first time FAs.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
If the Vikings leave Allen's salary as is then we will not be very active
And if they keep Hutch, Herrera, and Griffin without any re-structure’s then we will be bottom feeders in free agency.
Now is the time to be super aggressive. The free agent market is much larger this year than it will be next year because many free agents signed one year deals this past August.
Like Stephen Tulloch, Aubrayo Franklin, Carlos Rogers, Manny Lawson, etc.
I am very interested in seeing what they will do in regards to freeing up cap space.
one other aspect that I am hoping will lure Garcon to Minny
Is the chance to be a #1 WR.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
I don't know that Garcon can be a #1 WR
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
He would be on the Vikings
Even if by default.
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Maybe Garcon just does not want to stay in Indy
It could really have nothing to do with money. There is no incentive for him to accept a deal now. He could get the same offer or even a little less from a better team.
Oh, you mean my pilot's license? That's out back in the Cessna. Or perhaps you're referring to my license to kill. Revoked. Trouble at the Kazakhstan border. I could give you the details but then I'd have to kill you, which I can't do because my license to kill has been revoked.
that's what I'm hoping for
My offseason plan is depending on it!
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Granted that would mean he would not want to come here either :(
Oh, you mean my pilot's license? That's out back in the Cessna. Or perhaps you're referring to my license to kill. Revoked. Trouble at the Kazakhstan border. I could give you the details but then I'd have to kill you, which I can't do because my license to kill has been revoked.
Colts are picking 1st and Vikes are picking 3rd
So technically we are a better team! :)
"At this point, what we got to lose, right? So we might as well throw caution to the wind and hit people in the face."
--Vikings DE Jared Allen
Haha yea
But he could want to go to a winning team, which neither of them are currently
Oh, you mean my pilot's license? That's out back in the Cessna. Or perhaps you're referring to my license to kill. Revoked. Trouble at the Kazakhstan border. I could give you the details but then I'd have to kill you, which I can't do because my license to kill has been revoked.
BOOOOOOOOOOOO NO TRADES BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! :)
Seriously, you’re right. Kalil is about as no brainer a pick as there is, and I’m glad you didn’t. I think the VIkes need to take him and don’t look back.
As for the rest of the draft, I love McNutt from Iowa—I think he would be a solid pick. Actually, I love those first six picks.
Big Ten represent!!
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
I have some mocks with us trading out of the #3 pick even if the Rams trade out of the #2
I think it is quite possible. Although I still would be hard pressed to do it.
I was unaware of the BIG 10 picks. I may have to change that being a USC homer. :)
LOL
"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again. Do it a little harder next time." Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer.
Zach Brown
I think he would be terrible for us. he’s fast & can cover, but he can’t play linebacker very well. He runs around blocks & plays very small. I think he’ll be there at 35. I guess if you think Zach Brown can be converted to strong safety, I’d be fine with the pick, because that’s what he plays like.
With 6 DT’s getting round one grades, one of those would be there or maybe one of the few safeties that could actually improve the Vikes. So, Worthy or Smith at 35 is the only sensible way to go if you insist on ignoring how dynasties are built & concentrate on offensive line to the tune of 2200 points at pick 3. (more than the entire giants o-line, including back-ups & injured reserve.)
Remember when we passed on Marino because we had Kramer? Remember when we selected D. Nelson for his hands over Marcus Allen? How about when we skipped on Sapp & went Alexander due to rumor? Ahhh, good times.
That is fair
I am trying to wrap my head around your logic with the offensive line though. You say “to the tune of 2200 points”. Then you say that is more points “than the entire giants o-line, including back-ups & injured reserve”.
I guess you are taking where each player was picked and then adding up the points. The math is correct.
I just do not see any relevance in that stat. I suppose you can do it with any position group. With DT, how many points did the Giants or Patriots use to get their tackles? It could go on and on.
You could be right in that the offensive line can be filled with any picks and that they do not need to be top picks.
But this mock was specifically about players who did well in the combine. Kalil did very well. Claiborne had a horrible 3 cone and Blackmon did not run.

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