Draft
Where Gonzo Laughs at the Concept of "Grading" a Draft That Finished Less Than 24 Hours Ago
The 2008 Draft is in the history books, and we've now hit the inevitable period where the draft "experts" start handing out their draft "grades" based on their perceptions of how different teams performed over the weekend. They'll tell us about how so-and-so was a "steal" or how this guy was a "reach" and so forth, and there will be people that will take such talk as the gospel truth.
Meanwhile, I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at the entire exercise.
Don't get me wrong. . .we're entering the "dead" portion of the NFL season. The three months between the end of the draft and the beginning of Training Camp are damn near interminable for die-hard football fans. I realize that there are people out there that get paid a decent wage to talk about football year-round and, God bless 'em, they've got to come up with something to talk about during that time.
Maybe I'm a bit cynical about the entire thing because I still have echoes in my mind about how great the Vikings' 2005 Draft class allegedly was. Oh, there was praise all around for the Vikings' selections of Troy Williamson and Erasmus James and Marcus Johnson and on and on and on. That class, barring James and/or Johnson miraculously "getting it" this season, is on the verge of going down as the worst draft class in Minnesota Vikings history. Not one, but two first-round flops, a second-rounder that can't get off the bench. . .and, as of now, nobody else from that class to be found on the roster.
Now, liking or not liking the players a team drafts is one thing. . .attempting to grade the players themselves is something entirely different. For example, I thought that Kansas City did a pretty fine job getting players that could potentially help them in this year's draft. Everywhere I look, the Chiefs' draft is pretty highly graded by all of the aforementioned "experts." But if we look back three years from now and Glenn Dorsey has turned into Steve Entman and Branden Albert has become Marcus Johnson and other bad luck occurs for them, giving them an "A" now could potentially end up looking almost as ludicrous as the "A's" and "B's" that the Vikings' 2005 Draft class got are looking right about now. Draft grades are a lot like Girls Gone Wild videos. . .fun to look at, but not really anything to take too seriously.
Not. . .that. . .I'd. . .know. *ahem* Anyway. . .
If you'd like to discuss the Vikings draft "grades" and/or other aspects of this weekend's draft, please feel free to use this here thread to do it. I, personally, feel that it put the cap on a pretty productive off-season for the Vikings. I'll hopefully be back later with some more fun and excitement.
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2008 NFL Draft Open Thread - Day 2
And because I can't tell time, we're already about half a dozen picks into Round 3 of the 2008 Draft.
Discuss anything about it here, folks. . .we're at the #70 overall pick, and Minnesota currently doesn't have a pick until #150.
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What They're Saying about Tyrell Johnson
Let's take a look at the newest member of the Minnesota Vikings from some different media perspectives.
The first thing I'd like to mention is that NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock had Tyrell Johnson rated as the #1 safety in this draft class. . .yes, even higher than big, bad Kenny Phillips from the big, bad U of Miami. He also said that their reasoning for moving up with their pick was because the three teams ahead of them at the time (Detroit, Chicago, and Cincy) all have issues at the safety spot and could all have taken Johnson before he got to Minnesota.
A few other perspectives. . .
Pete Prisco, CBS Sportsline:
Just days after getting pass-rush specialist Jared Allen, the Vikings put a dagger in the hearts of all their 2008 opponents by drafting SS Tyrell Johnson. He's an excellent Cover-2 safety and should help later on in the season.
Excellent Cover-2 safety, eh? Sounds to me like we have our Darren Sharper replacement. Should be fun watching Johnson and Madieu Williams roam the secondary in 2009 and beyond.
WINNER: Minnesota
In trading a first-round and two third-round picks last week to Kansas City, the Vikings assured themselves a fairly quiet first day of the draft. They wound up stealing highly-regarded defensive back Tyrell Johnson of Arkansas State in the second round, but that was it.
However, landing All-Pro defensive end Jared Allen gave Minnesota a major boost and put the Vikes in position as the team to beat in the NFC North. There was no way they were going to get anyone the value of Allen – who had 15½ sacks last year – with those picks.
Rather than a draft party, owner Zygi Wilf threw a party for the signing of Allen, and thousands of fans showed up.
For a team that needed a pass rush and help in the secondary, the week couldn’t have gone much better.
No. . .no, it most certainly couldn't have.
The Vikes have some solid talent at safety, but pick up some more depth in Johnson, the tackle machine out of Arkansas State. Played really well against Texas and Tennessee.
Again, sounds pretty good to me.
Now, at some point later on in the day today, you'll start seeing draft "grades" for various teams. Usually, grading a team's draft a day after it happens is a pretty ludicrous exercise. However, I think I can safely say that the Vikings have had an "A+" week leading up to the draft. . .anyone that's been paying attention gave them that grade as soon as the Allen trade went through.
Speaking of the Allen trade, in case it got lost in the shuffle yesterday. . .Jacksonville gave up a #1, two #3s, and a #4 to move up to the 8th overall pick to select DE Derrick Harvey, who has done nothing on an NFL football field. Minnesota gave up a #1 and two #3s to acquire a player that led the NFL in sacks last season and averages 11.5 sacks a year. All the more reason to feel confident that the Vikings made the right move, in my opinion.
Here's DraftTek's projections for the Vikings' remaining selections as they stand now:
5th Round (150) - Erik Ainge, QB, Tennessee
5th Round (152) - Harry Douglas, WR, Louisville
6th Round (187) - Geoff Schwartz, DT, Oregon
6th Round (193) - Louis Holmes, DE, Arizona
7th Round (209) - Justin Tryon, CB, Arizona State
That's all for now, folks. . .we'll be back when the action kicks off from New York again for more discussion. . .hope you'll join us!
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2008 NFL Draft Open Thread - Day 1
Yes, folks. . .we're 20 minutes away from the start of the 2007 NFL Selection Meeting in New York City.
Use this thread to talk about all things draft related. . .players that have just been taken off the board, players that are falling, players that you think might be "reaches," and anything else you can think of.
One random thought. . .how pissed off do you suppose the ESPN folks are that the Vikings don't have a first-round pick this year? If they want to show that same stupid 2003 footage they break out every year, they'll have a long wait ahead of them. And even then, with the shorter time limits this season (10 minutes in the first round, 7 minutes for the second, and 5 minutes in every other round), they might not have enough time to get it all in.
Not that it matters to me. . .I'll be watching the NFL Network.
Enjoy the draft, folks! I'll be here pretty much all afternoon.
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Soooooo. . .Now What?
Pretty much every post I've made for the last week has had some sort of focus on Jared Allen. There was a good reason for that, obviously, but now that one of the game's best pass rushers is signed, sealed and delivered to Minnesota, let's take a new look at the Beloved Purple.
As I've said numerous times, we've fulfilled a vast majority of our biggest needs this off-season with solid talent that SHOULD be entering the prime of their careers. But what do we have left to look at with the six draft picks we have remaining this coming weekend? Personally, I think our biggest needs are as follows.
1) Offensive tackle - If you've been reading the site for any length of time, you know I'm no fan of Ryan Cook. I thought it was a bad selection when the pick was made, and he hasn't done a whole hell of a lot to change my mind. Sure, he's had his moments, but he's also very inconsistent. Then there's Marcus Johnson, part of what will go down as the Great Draft Disaster of ought-five. I've said pretty much all that needs to be said there.
With the one first-day pick we have remaining at this point. . .unless we trade down in Round 2, which is something I'd love to see. . .I think we could very easily go for an offensive tackle like Virginia Tech's Duane Brown, Nebraska's Carl Nicks, Oniel Cousins of Texas El-Paso, or Sam Baker of Southern Cal. I don't think Baker will drop, but there's a chance that Brown will be there at #47, and Nicks and Cousins should definitely be there. Brown, however, would be my first choice.
2) Development QB - We know Jackson is the starter. We know Frerotte is the backup. But we have GOT to upgrade over Brooks Bollinger at that #3 QB spot, and prepare a guy that can start in the future in the event that Tarvaris Jackson isn't the guy. I think the second round would be too high for that selection, so no Chad Henne's here or anything like that. But looking into the fourth round, we could be looking at guys like Kentucky's Andre Woodson (who I would love), San Diego's Josh Johnson (ditto), Southen Cal's John David Booty, or Erik Ainge out of Tennessee.
3) Receiving tight end - There's going to be value at the TE spot in the later rounds, in my opinion. Unless Visanthe Shiancoe ends up playing up to his contract in 2008, this is something the Vikings need to address. If they went with Southern Cal's Fred Davis or Purdue's Dustin Keller in Round 2, I wouldn't be terribly unhappy. But if we wait until the later rounds, the Beloved Purple could potentially steal somebody like Missouri's Martin Rucker, Jermichael Finley out of Texas, Kellen Davis of Michigan State, or Jacob Tamme from Kentucky.
After that, the rest of our selections could go towards solidifying depth in the secondary, along the D-line, and at linebacker. I have confidence that Rick Spielman and Brad Childress can find quality guys late in the draft to make that possible.
What do you folks think? Have I hit our needs on the head, or am I missing something glaring that our team needs to address?
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Vikings Make Second SBNation Mock Draft Selection
While getting caught up in all this Jared Allen excitement, it appears as though I forgot to mention that the Vikings have made their second-round choice in the 2008 SBNation Mock NFL Draft. And by "the Vikings," what I mean is "me."
Who did the Beloved Purple take in the second round? Have a look for yourself, and then tell me what you think!
And, since I know why you're really here anyway. . .no, there have been no further updates to the Jared Allen story. Access Vikings is reporting that there's still a big ol' limo parked in front of the offices at Winter Park, but nothing has come out of there yet as far as news. But stay tuned right here just in case something breaks!
On a final note, thanks to the Jared Allen news, yesterday was the biggest day in terms of hits in the history of the Daily Norseman. We had 2,187 visitors to the site overall, and between the hours of 8 AM and midnight, only two of those hours brought less than 100 hits to the site. . .and those two hours gave us 97 and 96 hits. Because of yesterday. . .and today as well, it appears. . .we're on the verge of crossing the 200,000 hit mark before the NFL Draft. Right now, since the site went live in July of 2006, we've registered 198,273 (which includes the 1,337 we've registered today thus far).
It's just another opportunity for me to thank each and every one of you for the opportunity to bring my thoughts, rants, and insight to your computer as a part of your Minnesota Vikings internet experience. This site wouldn't be here without the support of all of you, and I appreciate it all a great deal.
Like I said, keep it tuned here for any new Jared Allen developments, and keep enjoying your weekend!
Update [2008-4-19 18:24:39 by Gonzo]:
Oh, and if you have any questions about the site transition that will be taking place on Wednesday, check out this handy-dandy little reference guide. It should help ease any potential pain that might arise. Oh, and here's a guide to help all of you out there to become a bigger part of the Daily Norseman community. Again, this isn't just MY site. . .this is OUR site, folks. Anyone can feel free to contribute anything at any time. Daily Norseman 2.0 will make that just a little easier for everybody.
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Daily Norseman Mock Draft, v3.0
Well, after all the heavy stuff we've talked about the last couple of days with the stadium and the potential move and things of that nature, let's lighten things up a little bit by looking at a newly-updated version of the Mock Draft.
| Pick | Team | Selection | Previous |
| 1 | Miami Dolphins | Chris Long, DE, Virginia | Jake Long, OT, Michigan |
| 2 | St. Louis Rams | Glenn Dorsey, DT, Louisiana State | Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio State |
| 3 | Atlanta Falcons | Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College | Matt Ryan, QB, Boston College |
| 4 | Oakland Raiders | Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas | Chris Long, DE, Virginia |
| 5 | Kansas City Chiefs | Jake Long, OT, Michigan | Glenn Dorsey, DT, Louisiana State |
| 6 | New York Jets | Vernon Gholston, DE, Ohio State | Darren McFadden, RB, Arkansas |
| 7 | New England Patriots (from San Francisco) | Keith Rivers, LB, Southern California | Dominique Rogers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State |
| 8 | Baltimore Ravens | Branden Albert, OL, Virginia | Ryan Clady, OT, Boise State |
| 9 | Cincinnati Bengals | Sedric Ellis, DT, Southern Cal | Sedric Ellis, DT, Southern Cal |
| 10 | New Orleans Saints | Dominique Rogers-Cromartie, CB, Tennessee State | Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy |
| 11 | Buffalo Bills | Leodis McKelvin, CB, Troy | Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida |
| 12 | Denver Broncos | Ryan Clady, OT, Boise State | Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh |
| 13 | Carolina Panthers | Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida | Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois |
| 14 | Chicago Bears | Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt | Chris Williams, OT, Vanderbilt |
| 15 | Detroit Lions | Jeff Otah, OT, Pittsburgh | Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon |
| 16 | Arizona Cardinals | Mike Jenkins, CB, South Florida | Derrick Harvey, DE, Florida |
| 17 | Minnesota Vikings | Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson | Phillip Merling, DE, Clemson |
| 18 | Houston Texans | Rashard Mendenhall, RB, Illinois | Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas |
| 19 | Philadelphia Eagles | Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State | Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma |
| 20 | Tampa Bay Buccaneers | Aqib Talib, CB, Kansas | DeSean Jackson, WR, California |
| 21 | Washington Redskins | Malcolm Kelly, WR, Oklahoma | Limas Sweed, WR, Texas |
| 22 | Dallas Cowboys (from Cleveland) | Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas | Felix Jones, RB, Arkansas |
| 23 | Pittsburgh Steelers | Kentwan Balmer, DL, North Carolina | Branden Albert, OG, Virginia |
| 24 | Tennessee Titans | DeSean Jackson, WR, California | James Hardy, WR, Indiana |
| 25 | Seattle Seahawks | Jonathan Stewart, RB, Oregon | Fred Davis, TE, Southern Cal |
| 26 | Jacksonville Jaguars | Jerrod Mayo, LB, Tennessee | Jerrod Mayo, LB, Tennessee |
| 27 | San Diego Chargers | Limas Sweed, WR, Texas | Kenny Phillips, S, Miami (FL) |
| 28 | Dallas Cowboys | Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona | Antoine Cason, CB, Arizona |
| 29 | San Francisco 49ers (from Indianapolis) | Kenny Phillips, S, Miami (FL) | Devin Thomas, WR, Michigan State |
| 30 | Green Bay Packers | Fred Davis, TE, Southern Cal | Keith Rivers, LB, Southern Cal |
| 32 | New York Giants | Dan Connor, LB, Penn State | Reggie Smith, CB, Oklahoma |
A couple of comments here. . .
-I've changed the top pick from Jake Long to Chris Long. Now, if I were the Dolphins, Jake Long would still be MY pick. But since I don't think Parcells is big on taking O-linemen that high, I think he's going to go for the big-time DE instead.
-The Vikings need to get a WR in this year's draft. As you can see from the draft above, I view this year's wide receiver class as not being very "top heavy," but it is fairly deep. If the Vikings want to get their hands on a wide receiver, they'd be better served waiting until Round 2 or 3. The next time I do one of these, hopefully I can find the time to add a second round.
-My pick for Minnesota hasn't changed. In my opinion, with the way I have the mock falling, Merling is the best choice for the Vikings at that spot. All the notable OTs are gone, there isn't a WR worth #17, in my opinion, and Merling is the last DE worthy of a first-round grade. I'll have more on Merling in a future posting.
There you have it, folks. . .discuss!
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Vikings 2008 SBNation Mock Draft Selection Open Thread
Remember, to keep track of all the hot Mock Draft action, keep your browsers tuned to Mocking the Draft.
The first two picks have gone off the board, as the Dolphins selected Virginia DE Chris Long, and the Rams selected DE Vernon Gholston from THE Ohio State University.
As you'll see, there's a poll attached here, and it will shortly be the main poll on the site. I've based the 9 names (along with the nebulous "other" option) on stuff I've seen from various Mock Drafts around the internet of guys that SHOULD be available when the Vikings' selection comes around at 17.
Now, keep this in mind. . .the picks are being posted to Mocking the Draft at the rate of 2-3 per day. . .on the other hand, we're doing the picks behind the scenes at a slightly faster rate. We bloggers are getting 8 hours from the time the last pick is made to get our pick submitted to the folks running the Mock Draft. Right now, we're actually up to the #7 pick, but we've put the brakes on to slow down a bit.
With that in mind, when I'm informed that the Vikings time "on the clock" has come, I'll give a warning here on the blog that we're in the last few hours before our pick has to be in. When we reach the deadline I've given, I'll go with the highest player from the list that's still available with our selection. I've tried to limit things to the Vikings' positions of need (i.e. no running backs, no linebackers). If someone can generate a "write-in" campaign for a player, that's cool, too.
So, let's use THIS post for all the discussion regarding the Vikings' first-round pick in the SBNation Mock Draft. And, if you select "Other," PLEASE leave a comment as to who "Other" is.
So, with that, vote and discuss away!
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The 2008 SBNation Mock Draft is Here!
Yes, folks, it's the most wonderful (blog) time of the year, as it's time to kick off the SBNation Mock Draft. Just like last year's party, the bloggers of SBNation will be taking turns making their selections for their respective teams. If you'll recall last year's draft for a moment, with the 7th overall pick I chose some guy named Adrian Peterson for the Beloved Purple, based on a poll here on the site. The Vikings, in an obvious tip of the hat to our brilliance, made the same selection at the real NFL Draft and. . .well, we saw what happened.
(Okay, so we might not really have had anything to do with the Vikings picking Adrian Peterson. But it WAS our idea first, damn it.)
This year's draft will be hosted by the good folks at Mocking the Draft. There aren't going to be any trades this year (in an attempt to minimize delays), and we're hoping to crank out 2-3 picks a day. So, in a few days, I'll have a poll up on the site here with a list of good, logical targets for the Beloved Purple that haven't been selected yet, and like last year we'll all vote on them. The majority will rule, just like it did last season.
Our first round pick should be getting made sometime on Saturday, if we get 3 picks in per day. So the poll should be up in the next few days here. In the meantime, keep an eye on Mocking the Draft and the other SBNation sites to keep up with the latest happenings. The Dolphins' pick should be up here in the relatively near future.
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Drafting for Need vs. Drafting the Best Player Available
As we're now less than six weeks away from the NFL's Annual Selection Meeting, speculation is starting to run wild about what teams are going to do at their positions. If you look at the Mock Draft Database we've got here (conveniently linked on your left), you can see that a lot of people have the Vikings spending their 17th overall selection on a defensive lineman, whether it's Florida's Derrick Harvey or Clemson's Phillip Merling. In fact, of the 50 Mock Drafts that we have listed, nearly 60% of them have the Vikings taking either Merling or Harvey.
This poses the question of whether or not a team, such as the Beloved Purple, should simply use their first-round selection to fill a "need" position or whether they should simply select the player that they deem to be the best player available on their board at that time. Obviously, when you're early in the first round, "need" and "talent" pretty much intersect. After all, how much foresight does it take to select Peyton Manning #1 overall? But as you get further down into the first round, the gap between "need" and "talent," depending on the position, can change. . .and it can change in either direction.
For example, go back to 1998. The Vikings are sitting at #21, and a guy by the name of Randy Moss just keeps dropping. . .and dropping. . .and dropping. Now, the Vikings already had a pair of pretty good wide receivers in Cris Carter and Jake Reed. Wide receiver wasn't exactly a "need" for the Vikings, but Moss was just too good a value to pass up, so the Vikings jumped on him. The result was a passing game so good that the team set a record for the most points scored in a season and fielded, in my slightly biased opinion, the greatest offense in the history of the NFL. You could also point to last year's selection of Adrian Peterson as an example of this, and you saw what it did to the Vikings' rushing game in 2007.
Now, look back to 2005. The Vikings' 2005 draft was pretty much a disaster on every front, and it started right at the top. The Vikings were fresh off of dealing Randy Moss to the Oakland Raiders and had received the #7 overall pick in the draft in exchange for him. When the #7 pick rolled around, the Vikings reached to fill a "need" with Troy Williamson rather than going with the best available player, which probably would have been DE/LB Shawne Merriman or DE DeMarcus Ware. Now, the Vikings had a need at DE, too. . .the Vikings have had a need at DE since they traded Chris Doleman, but that's here nor there. . .but their self-imposed pressure to "replace" Randy Moss was so great that they took a less talented player to fill that need. As we all saw first-hand, it didn't work quite so well.
I was asked to do a blogger mock draft with the folks at SportsProjections.com. They asked bloggers from different teams to make their selections for their teams, and when the Vikings' pick came up, I was faced with a dilemma.
Now, there should be very little doubt that the Vikings' biggest positions of need at the time were (in no particular order) DE, WR, and DB (be it CB or S). But if you look at the link to the draft above there, you'll see that 3 defensive ends and 4 cornerbacks had already come off the board, as well as 3 offensive tackles. That's 10 players that all play positions that the Vikings could use help at. Surprisingly, there were no wide receivers taken prior to the Vikings pick at #17, and I was all ready to jump on one such as Malcolm Kelly or James Hardy, when I noticed something curious.
Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan, who has been projected as a Top 3-5 pick in nearly every mock draft I've seen out there, and no later than the Top 10 to be sure, was still sitting out there and available. In many mock drafts, Ryan is the only QB listed with a first-round grade, so to see him available at #17 was a huge shock. So the question begged itself. . .should I take the most talented guy at what might not necessarily be a "need" position, or do you take a guy that's slightly less talented, but would be a bigger upgrade at his position?
As much as I like Tarvaris Jackson and believe in his talent, Ryan was too good to pass up there, so I jumped on him. I'm not sure if the Vikings would do the same, but that's what I did. Even if Ryan wasn't able to snag the starting job from Jackson right away, he'd provide a MASSIVE upgrade over Brooks Bollinger, and would be a much better option to step in should Jackson be injured again. A receiver like Kelly or Hardy, or even an OT like Jeff Otah, would also be an upgrade, but not quite on the level of upgrading from Bollinger to Ryan, in my opinion.
Will a DE be the best player available when the Vikings select at #17 this April? They might be, they might not be. But if that's not the case, history. . .and particularly recent Vikings' history. . .has shown that it's usually better to take the most talented player available regardless of position than to reach for someone just to fill a need. I hope that the Vikings continue to take this philosophy to heart this year like they did in 1998 and 2007.
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