FanPost

A Rebuttal

I started making a reply to a comment by Chris3 in the CCNorseman's "On the Other Hand" post, and it really got away from me. So I decided to make a proper fanpost of it instead, even though that is not something I often do. Here are my thoughts.

There is a lot wrong here, a lot of questionable framing and interpretation of events, and a lot of opinion that certainly can be debated. Because I get tired of repeating myself, I'll just hit on a few of your most egregious statements.

I do blame rick for Hughes...because we did not need a cb at the time

This is just simply not true at all. It was arguably the greatest need on the team, and certainly one of the top two. The only CBs on the roster before the 2018 draft were Rhodes (in 2018 playing 14 games, 84% of snaps, with two years left on contract), Waynes (14 games, 76% of snaps, two years left including fifth-year option), Alexander (15 games but only 6 started, 58% of snaps, having fewer than 400 career snaps in the two years before the 2018 season, two years left), and Sherels (12 games, zero started, 4% of snaps, one year contract).

That is it. A clear #1 who was starting to age, and showing a propensity for getting dinged up and coming out for several plays almost every game; a former rd 1 pick who had been underwhelming to that point; a rd 2 pick who had been even more underwhelming; and a great punt returner who could kinda sorta play corner if everyone else was unavailable.

In a system where the #4 corner routinely played at least 25% of the snap count. Did you want the pouty GB insurance salesman throwing at Marcus on every fourth attempt?

In a year when both the #1 and #2 missed two games, and the #3 missed one while only starting in six? And the presumptive #4 played all of 29 snaps of the 933 on defense that year? 29!

Just who did you expect to play the snaps (243 plus 89 on ST) that he and 2018 UDFA Hill (374 plus 260 ST) gave the team that year? (Got damned lucky on Hill, BTW - you sure don't plan on that level of production from a rookie UDFA.) Who did you expect to be able to take over for the #1, #2, and #3 CBs in 2020 after all of them became FAs, especially in a Zimmer defense that is notoriously difficult to pick up quickly for DBs?

Oh, so you would have brought in a FA or two? Well, fine. Who are you going to cut from the rest of the roster to make that work? And who are you targeting that was available, potentially viable, affordable (after some cuts), and willing to come here to be a #4 CB behind an established #1 and a couple of young picks from rounds 1 and 2? And don't blame Cousins for his cap hit in this, his first year here, as it was an eminently reasonable $24M. I'm waiting.

The drafting of Hughes was entirely justified. He fit a tremendous need. He went about where he was expected to be picked (actually he was a good value per a few pundits), and he earned snaps from game one, a rarity for Zimmer DBs. He performed reasonably well before tearing 3 ligaments in his knee. With no prior injury history, you can't hold this against Rick. Nor his broken neck toward the end of the next season. While ultimately it was Rick's decision to get rid of him for something, anything that another team would offer, Rick later stated to the press that it was upon the advice of medical experts. Even though Hughes is playing well for KC now (which further justifies the initial selection - you can't have it both ways), one hopes that he does not end up with a career-ending injury that affects his post-NFL physical abilities.

I blame rick for making unnecessary holes in the roster. Be it at tackle, twice, safety twice, tight end, etc.

Maybe instead blame the NFL and NFLPA for roster sizes, salary caps, excessive contracts, and free agency. And the whole draft process. And players who get injured, for their injuries. Obviously it's the fault of the GM when players miss games or end careers because they get hurt in a physical and violent game.

I blame rick for giving cousins a fully gauranteed contract

This is a big nothingburger, as I have refuted several times already. All franchise QBs for the last many years have been effectively guaranteed for about three years because of guaranteed money dead cap hits anyway. It's just that they are usually 5 or now 6 (even 7!) years long in total, though, so the last years are not gtd. Big deal. And the money was very consistent with two excellently comparable contemporary QBs in Stafford and Ryan.

If you want to talk about the extension, and the decision not to cut, those are positions that legitimately can be discussed from either side.

I blame rick and zim both for jerking Jones around ... and Dantzler ...

Why are you blaming Rick for who is playing? That is entirely Zimmer's domain. The fact that you think there are players on the staff that are better than the ones who are playing is proof that Rick provided better options. It's not his fault if Zimmer chose not to play them.

Spielman has been drafting olinemen smaller and weaker than dlinemen for longer than zim has been here. I blame Rick for many years of not getting better Oline than the 6th rd picks he wanted to develop into starters

This is ridiculous, on several levels. First, the OL was good enough to get to the playoffs in 2008 (NFCN champs at 10-6, with AD leading the league in rushing) and to the NFCCG in 2009, and ranked in the PFF top 10 in 2011/2012/2013, so there was absolutely no need to divert resources into it while many of the other units on the team were in shambles, such as QB/WR/TE/CB/S/LB, to name a few. Since Zimmer arrived in 2014, your assertion is nonsensical.

Second, the recent average weight of a DE is 283, and for a DT 310. Average OL is 315. Never mind that O'Neill was listed as our lightest OL and he is our best OL. The fact is that virtually all rookie OL need time after drafting in a weight and conditioning program to get to their desired weight. That is harder to get to at ~315 or more than it is at 310, and certainly more so than 283. Here are the numbers and some commentary I found from an earlier post:

Here are the pre-draft measureables for the OL draft picks of the past several years that are currently on the Vikings' roster:

O'Neill 6'7" 297#

Udoh 6'6" 323#

Bradbury 6'3" 305#

Cleveland 6'6" 311#

Brandel 6'7" 307#

Darrisaw 6'5" 322#

Davis is 6'4" 326#

Of those, you could call O'Neill underweight (but he's our best OL, and probably a top 10 RT in the league), and you could argue that Bradbury is slightly below average size for an interior OL (though he was definitely the highest rated C in the draft when one was desperately needed).

I wouldn't exactly call the rest of them "undersized." Ezra and Blake are slightly below the average OL weight of 315# (per Elias in 2020), but the latter is also sixth-round depth, not a starter.

The current starting lineup is 322#, 311#, 307# (Cole), 323#, and 297#. But those were their pre-draft weights, so they are probably a bit bigger now. Not sure how many pounds Cole can/did add as he is "only" 6'4".

Third, it is clear from various press sources that Zimmer had been requesting more athletic OL prospects for the type of scheme he was running, so to blame Rick for giving Zimmer what he was asking for is, I dunno, weird?

Fourth, Rick has invested more draft capital than any other team, and quite a lot of FA money, and some trades, in trying to rebuild the OL since injuries started piling up in 2014-15. Arguably Bradbury was a slight reach (though the consensus best choice at a position of dire need), but all of his other day1/day2 picks were close to where they were projected to be selected, if not good values.

While having a first-round LT on the roster for four of the past five years (a period that arbitrarily started with an OL good enough to get to the NFCCG), he has invested two firsts, two seconds, and two thirds into the OL, not to mention over a dozen day3/UDFAs and several significant FA signings and trades. Very few of these have shown substantial improvement over their tenure here.

If Zimmer can't cook a good meal with the ingredients that Rick is buying at the store, I know where I'm assigning the blame.

I blame rick for not wanting competition for qb's...be it Ponder or Cousins

Really? Ponder was given just two years as a round 1 draft pick, and wasn't quite bad enough to prevent AD from nearly setting the rushing record while getting the team to a WC berth. However, recognizing that this wasn't adequate, in 2013 Rick brought in Matt Cassel, who had recently helped the Pats almost get to the playoffs, as immediate competition, then even signed Rocket-launcher Josh Freeman for another option. And of course then drafted Teddy in the following spring. From all accounts, it was Frazier, the "player's coach" and not Rick who showed loyalty to Ponder. Remember, too, that the Ponder pick was under the Icosahedron of Insanity, and thus I am reluctant to assign all of the blame for his acquisition to Rick alone.

As to Cousins... well, I missed whatever some CFL QB said, but it doesn't shock me. If you are betting your job security on a durable, top-dozen QB that you hired and gave a multiyear gtd contract to, and want to give him every chance to succeed, and not distract him with a QB controversy, I certainly can sympathize. I doubt there are many successful GMs in a similar situation who would act much differently. Who, exactly, did you want to get as competition for him? How would you persuade them to come here, and in what role, and at what cost? Neither ownership nor front office of the Vikings tend to disrupt things too much during the season if they can avoid it, and there are both pros and cons to that philosophy.

There is more that I could reply to, but this is already much longer than I intended. I just get tired of hearing all of these same old disproven or knee-jerk tropes being trotted out over and over, despite sensible people refuting them again and again and again. So pay attention, and please stop with these inaccurate narratives.

This FanPost was created by a registered user of The Daily Norseman, and does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff of the site. However, since this is a community, that view is no less important.